Church immune to natural disaster?

[ClubV12]

The elephant in the room....

Early reports are that no SDA's lost their life in the Japan disaster. What about Haiti? Or other large scale disasters? Are God's people immune or protected during "acts of God"?

The elephant in the room has more to do with the "why" question. Why do these things happen and what is the appropriate area response? Turning to God? Punishment for sin?

[Dr. Rich]

Why? Duh, read Matthew 24 and 25 and Daniel and Revelation. Problem is, most people don't want to know.

[Gail]

I think that the promises of protection that Christians have in Psalm 91, for instance, could be part of that. The early Christians were warned to leave Jerusalem when they saw the Romans surround the city, and none of them were lost in the siege. So God does care for His own.

But not entirely, tho. As Daniel, Jeremiah, Joseph and others were not exempt from trouble, neither are God's people. The woman did flee into the wilderness and while there are stories of miraculous protection there were also many martyrs for Him.

Live or die, there is no safer place to be, IMHO. Becoming a Christian does not give you an automatic ticket for earthly physical safety. But in the light of the bigger picture, it is our soul that will not be destroyed.

[ClubV12]

Why? Duh, ....

The question remains, Why?

To punish sin? To point to His coming? So that disaster may lead to repentance? Natural selection for those who are outside of God's immediate protection?

Was Japan and Haiti sinful to the point of calling down God's wrath, their cup of iniquity full?

Should our message to Japan be, "repent" that you might be spared in the future?

[ClubV12]

What about personal disasters, visited upon a christian family? A tragic car accident. An illness. A fire. Visitation from God for sin? Why?

Good point Gail, no automatic protection for christians,,, or is there, in the case of natural disasters?

[Dr. Rich]

Good Post Gail.

But here is the thing: How would you feel if you sent out invitations to all of your family and friends to a wedding for you and your bride, and in this invitation you say that there is only room for 144,000 (and the bride) so everyone MUST RSVP to hold their place or they would lose it; and then most of them ignored your invitation by throwing it away?

Rev. 1:1-3 is an invitation to ONLY the bondservants of the Groom. To accept, they must learn from the ONE found in Matt. 24:45 all about the date and time for the wedding, and what will take place, and how all of it will happen and what is exptected from them.

Just as you would not be happy with those you invited who threw their invitations away because they had mistakenly been told that no one will know when the wedding will take place, so too will Jesus be very unhappy with them and for good reason they will be found to be on the outside of the wedding feast door gnashing their teeth! How sad!

[ClubV12]

Martyrdom is a separate issue, it's not a natural disaster, and is for the glory of God and conviction of spirit for those who are searching for answers. There will be no martyrdom after the close of probation as it would serve no purpose at that time.

There was not a sick person among the children of Israel, so long as they continued in God's path... But we see plenty of incidents where falling away from God they lost His protection. Not only those who had fallen away, but those just and right men and women among them also suffered, but not unto death. Caleb, one of the 12 spies, for instance, suffered along with his people (wandering in the wilderness). But ultimately received the reward of entering that land of milk and honey. Only those wicked among the people were partakers of the various natural acts of God done to reprove the people.

How does that apply today? Are those who are sincerely following the Lord in all respects immune to natural disaster? Or, allowed to suffer unto death as an example for the living?

The elephant in the room...

Are those who perish counted as those who were not right with God? What about car accidents today, suddenly taking the life of someone who in all appearance was a faithful follower of Christ? My Uncle, a deeply Godly man, was killed instantly in a car accident, a mystery I've pondered for many years...

[LifeHiscost]

The elephant in the room...

Are those who perish counted as those who were not right with God? What about car accidents today, suddenly taking the life of someone who in all appearance was a faithful follower of Christ? My Uncle, a deeply Godly man, was killed instantly in a car accident, a mystery I've pondered for many years...

"Good people pass away;

the godly often die before their time.

But no one seems to care or wonder why.

No one seems to understand

that God is protecting them from the evil to come.

For those who follow godly paths

will rest in peace when they die."Isaiah 57:1-3 NLT

God blesses!

[Gail]

I don't doubt that the judgments caused by the winds of strife being let go are happening. According to the Bible, they gotta come sometime.

[Dr. Rich]

ClubV12 wrote: "There will be no martyrdom after the close of probation as it would serve no purpose at that time."

Bzzzzzzzt Wrong!

Rev. 6:9-10 "And when He broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and because of the Testimony [of Jesus] which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying "How long, O Lord, holy and true, wilt Thou refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Verse 11: And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until THE NUMBER OF THEIR FELLOW SERVANTS and their BRETHERN who were to be killed even as they had been, should be completed."

Now, as for blood under an altar, ONLY the blood of a perfect sacrifice was to be found under the altar, so this could NOT mean those who died before the time of trouble as NONE of them were sealed by God. It means those from the 144k who have been sealed by God before the time of trouble and who, just like Jesus did, gave up their lives in order to save the bride, (those found in Rev. 7:9-15) as found in vere 14 where they washed their robes from the blood of the saints who died and their blood was under the altar. The "lamb" here means the kin of the ONE lamb Jesus. It is the same word as what Jesus used for Peter in telling Peter to feed His sheep.

To prove this, look at Rev. 19:8 "And it was given to her (bride) to clothe herself in the fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen IS THE RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS (those from the 144k who were killed).

Therefore, just as Jesus' blood purchased the 144k and the 5 wise, (Rev. 5:9-10) so does the blood of the 144k and 5 wise do for the bride. Isn't this awesome?

[ClubV12]

Gail says,

...the winds of strife being let go are happening.

Spot on that!

Dr.Rich, interesting view point on matyrdom. I'm not at all up to speed on the timing and sequence of the time of trouble events and hesitate to even discuss the 144,000. Of which Ellen While says suggests silence is eloquent on that specific subject.

As to the time of trouble, sequence and timing of events, THAT is a worthy study. Especially in view of the "winds of strife" being let go in this day and age. I have much to learn (and unlearn)!

My assumption has been that AFTER the close of probation why would martyrdom be allowed? Unlike in the past, where it served a purpose for God's work toward mankind (Stephen comes to mind), that work, being finished, would remove the need for further martydom? Perhaps the answer lays with the concept that some will be laid to rest lest they suffer uneccessarily, during that time (time being, AFTER the close of probation)?

As to my Uncle, I had a very spiritual talk with him just days before he was taken. I was deeply impressed by his convictions and personal walk with Jesus. I was also deeply concerned that his growing, more profound faith was going to lead to HUGE problems with his family. His wife and children, also in the car, were spared in that horrific accident, by the way. Perhaps he was taken to spare him from his own "time of trouble", that was sure to come.

[Woody]

We are all equal in that our lives don't answer the curse of the Law. We deserve death. I don't think that God is any respecter of persons. He lets disaster fall on ALL. It's the luck of the dice. Bad things happen to those who love the Lord and those who don't. God doesn't promise us a rose garden here on Earth. Just the opposite. He promises us strife.

If anything ... He will let more strife fall on His ... to answer Satan's charges.

Bring it on Lord. Let's get this thing done with so we can go home.

[phkrause]

We are all equal in that our lives don't answer the curse of the Law. We deserve death. I don't think that God is any respecter of persons. He lets disaster fall on ALL. It's the luck of the dice. Bad things happen to those who love the Lord and those who don't. God doesn't promise us a rose garden here on Earth. Just the opposite. He promises us strife.

If anything ... He will let more strife fall on His ... to answer Satan's charges.

Bring it on Lord. Let's get this thing done with so we can go home.

Yes Woody, the Bible tells us that the rain, rains on the good and the bad. The sun shines on the good and the bad. Not sure how anyone can believe that things that happen are acts of God? I'd say those that believe that need to read the book of Job!

[phkrause]

ClubV12 the church is not immune to disaster. Never has been!!! Many church members died in Haiti. I have a few friends in Mass that had family living there and lost some to the earthquake.

[Woody]

ask not what God can do for you ... but what U can do for God.

[skyblue888]

In the work of God humanity can originate nothing! :)

[Bravus]

'Why?' Because Japan is on a fault and it slipped!

Sheesh.

[ClubV12]

I don't think it's as simple as a fault line, but thats one good scientific explanation! The winds of strife in the last days may appear to have a plausible scientific explanation, but there's more to it.

Thousands in Japan and around the world who have lost loved ones will be asking the question, "Why?".

[CoAspen]

How sad to live off of the misery of others. Why do so many do their best to prove Cardw right?

[LifeHiscost]

He lets disaster fall on ALL. It's the luck of the dice.

Bring it on Lord.

You can have my portion, Woody. And I guess you would be of the opinion that the promise of God is of no worth?

"You who love the Lord, hate evil!

He protects the lives of his godly people

and rescues them from the power of the wicked."

Psalms 97:10 NLT

God blesses!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

He lets disaster fall on ALL. It's the luck of the dice.

Bring it on Lord.

You can have my portion, Woody. And I guess you would be of the opinion that the promise of God is of no worth?

I think it is of no worth the way you interpret them. That would be true.

[Woody]

The nuke crisis is a six out of the seven nuke scale. (according to FOX News)

[Woody]

I guess among the thousands dead ... there were no Christians to benefit from the promises of God. Ha Ha. That was a joke. Do you know of any good Christians walking around alive being oh say 1500 years old because God preserved their life ... being they were so godly? What a joke folks.

Please ... let's intrepret God's word correctly and not turn His promises into fantasy.

[aldona]

The elephant in the room....

Early reports are that no SDA's lost their life in the Japan disaster. What about Haiti? Or other large scale disasters? Are God's people immune or protected during "acts of God"?

The elephant in the room has more to do with the "why" question. Why do these things happen and what is the appropriate area response? Turning to God? Punishment for sin?

How can we be so quick to say that no SDA's lost their life, when the Japanese emergency services have only pulled a small fraction of the dead from the rubble, let alone identifying them and figuring out what religion they belonged to?

Some of the more remote areas which were struck are only just being entered and assessed. Whole towns of 10-15 thousand people have been completely wiped off the map.

If anything, the statistics tell us how comparatively few Adventists there must be in Japan. I read on another thread that the number is about 15,000. Out of a total population of 127 million. That is probably why none of the victims so far have been identified as SDA - there are simply too few.

AJ

[Woody]

Good Point Adona.

And I doubt that those few are wearing a

I AM SDA TAG.