Get OUT of the cities

[ClubV12]

SDA's have had this message from Ellen White for many decades now. We need to share it with the world. We need to withdraw from the cities for several reasons. One is to avoid the temptation they offer, to us and to our children. Another is that they will suffer great calamity and destruction in EVER INCREASING amounts as the time of the end draws near.

The 1906 San Fran quake and fire were just the beginning of a chain of destruction. Katrina, the Indian Ocean tsunami, Japan, these continue the warnings of what is to come. This will increase over time and become more and more destructive. Culminating in the total destruction of earth.

7T.083 "Out of the cities" is my message….The time is near when the large cities will be visited by the judgments of God. In a little while these cities will be terribly shaken. No matter how large or how strong their buildings, no matter how many safeguards against fire may have been provided, let God touch these buildings, and in a few minutes or a few hours they are in ruins. The ungodly cities of our world are to be swept away by the besom of destruction. In the calamities that are now befalling immense buildings and large portions of cities God is showing us what will come upon the whole earth.

"Besom" means broom, by the way.

[Woody]

With the new technology that we have ... getting out of the cities will really not help much.

[Gail]

It would most likely prevent a skyscraper from tumbling onto you in the event of an earthquake...

[abelisle]

"I ran these ideas past a live Sabbath School class some weeks ago and Mrs. White’s binary of Nature versus City came in for some severe deconstruction. Adventists had done a lot of evil with their rejection of the city, asserted one member. Clinging to an outdated reaction against nineteenth-century urban growing pains, they had ignored the many well-developed efforts to make cities liveable with parks and open space, sanitation and housing codes, mixed income residential developments and the like. They remained ignorant of and/or hostile to the vibrant diversity and cultural richness of urban life. The implication was that Ellen White, or rather the misuse of Ellen White had perpetrated this evil. Another member offered a more specific cautionary tale of a relative in Africa who had established a mission hospital in a city, directly defying church administrators who insisted on Mrs. White’s counsel to establish healing centers in the country. What the medical missionary knew that the church leaders were blind to was that in Africa “Nature” meant the bush, the realm of predators and parasites where human life was likely to be nasty, brutish, and short. The City, on the other hand, was the place where human artifice could create an environment friendly to human life. To locate a center for healing and health in the bush was, for Africans, a dangerous absurdity" Greg Schneider @ http://spectrummagazine.org/article/greg-schneider/2011/03/13/nature-source-health

One can't make a blanket statement like this in our times. Even EGW mentions the need to work for the cities:

Behold the cities, and their need of the gospel! The need of earnest laborers among the multitudes of the cities has been kept before me for more than twenty years. Who are carrying a burden for the large cities? A few have felt the burden, but in comparison with the [bEGIN P.98] great need and the many opportunities but little attention has been given to this work. {9T 97.4}

In the Cities of the East

Instruction has been given me that the message should go again with power in the cities in the Eastern States. In many of the large cities of the East the first and second angels’ messages were proclaimed during the 1844 movement. To us, as God’s servants, has been entrusted the third angel’s message, the binding-off message, that is to prepare a people for the coming of the King. We are to make every effort to give a knowledge of the truth to all who will hear, and there are many who will listen. All through the large cities God has honest souls who are interested in what is truth. {9T 98.1}

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 9. Pacific Press Publishing Association, 1855; 2002, S. 97

Alex

[John317]

As usual, we need to study everthing the Bible and Ellen White teach on a particular subject. It's not a good idea to read a little here and a little there-- it all still adds up to too little.

[abelisle]

That's true John, but once again, it's all doom and gloom, dire warnings but no compassion.

That's why I chose to post the quote that I did.

Alex

[skyblue888]

ClubV12, you quoted this statement: "The time is near when the large cities will be visited by the judgments of God. In a little while these cities will be terribly shaken. No matter how large or how strong their buildings, no matter how many safeguards against fire may have been provided, let God touch these buildings, and in a few minutes or a few hours they are in ruins." 7 T 83.

This statement must be read with other statements for "The Testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42.

"The wickedness of the inhabitants of the world has almost filled up the measure of their iniquity. This earth has almost reached the place where God will permit the destroyer to work his will upon it." 7 T 141.

When, in the first statement it says, "Let God touch these buildings and in a few minutes or a few hours they are in ruins," that does not mean that God is directly touching these buildings. It simply means that He has allowed the destroyer to work his will upon these buildings.

This is happening today on a small scale. His judgments are still mixed with mercy but when probation shall close it will be a complete different story:

"When Christ leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an Intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. They have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose." The Great Controversy, 614.

But the language of Revelation 16 gives the strong impression that God's holy angels are directly pouring out the vials of God's wrath upon the earth. But it simply means that they have received the command from God to no longer combat Satan in his efforts to destrory.

sky

[ClubV12]

The message is very clear and plain, get OUT of the cities.

"The time is near when the large cities will be visited by the judgments of God."

The message is also clear that we need to continue the Lords work in the cities.

"We are to make every effort to give a knowledge of the truth to all who will hear, and there are many who will listen. All through the large cities God has honest souls who are interested in what is truth."

So the suggestion is that those who wish the "work the cities" should move their families into the ghettos and inner cities of New York, Boston, Chicago, LA or San Fran? Or maybe just far enough to get to those "nice parks" and clean sidewalks where the "living is easy"? Now don't worry about the vice, sin and crime your kids will be exposed to. Don't worry about the coming destruction of these big cities. Your doing God's work, you'll be fine!! Go back to sleep now, you have been warned.

[skyblue888]

And I would like to add this post:

The language of the Bible also says that "God slew Saul" but we know Saul fell on his own sword and died. He killed himself. (1 Chronicles 10:4,14)

The principles of God's dealing with men are ever the same. The language used is the same whether it is speaking of God or His angels.

In one place we are told that "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan." The Great Controversy, p.36.

When He is forced to abandon the sinner(s) to themselves and to the malice and malignity of Satan and his evil angels, God says that He has destroyed them because they now have no protection from themselves or from the destroyer.

"Men have reached a point of insolence and disobedience which shows that their cup of iniquity is almost full. Many have well-nigh passed the boundary of mercy. Soon God will show that He is the living God. He will say to the angels, 'No longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy. Let him work out his malignity toward the children of disobedience; for the cup of iniquity is full. They have advanced from one degree of wickedness to another, adding daily to their lawlessness. I will no longer interfere to prevent the destroyer from doing his work." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol.4, p.335; P.P.98; 8 T 50.

Thus we read, "I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then, if those who have been the objects of His special care follow their own course, independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they chose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them." E.G. W. M.R. Vol.14, 3.1

So, Who is the destroyer?

The following is a prophecy relating to events taking place after the 1,000 years. All the unsaved of all ages will be gazing at Satan and will consider him saying, "Is this the man who made the earth to tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world as a wilderness and destroyed its cities." Isaiah 14:12-17.

sky

[skyblue888]

But yes I do agree with you that we should leave the big cities especially as we near the time when Sunday worship shall be enforced. This will be the sign that it is time to leave the big cities for smaller ones, as Mrs. White stated.

sky

[ClubV12]

Sky,

We have evidence that God can, will and does take an active roll at times (angels of God destroyed Sodom). We also have evidence He allows those evil ones or even man to work His will toward destruction (spirtiual or physcial). Either way, the end result is the same. I won't put a fine point on whose "finger" touched a fault zone, the end result is the same.

[ClubV12]

Alex, compassion is shown by the WARNING, get out. It's not doom and gloom, it's a reality check vs no warning at all. These things WILL come to pass, that is certain. Some will heed the warning, others will excuse it. Choose which at your own peril, God is TRYING to save those who will listen, thats compassion!

[skyblue888]

Sky,

We have evidence that God can, will and does take an active roll at times (angels of God destroyed Sodom). We also have evidence He allows those evil ones or even man to work His will toward destruction. Either way, the end result is the same. I won't put a fine point on whose "finger" touched a fault zone, the end result is the same.

I don't see how it is the same at all. It is not the finger of God but of Satan for He is the destroyer. The statements I have shared are unequivocal. In these statements the Lord explains what He means when He says, I will do this or I will do that. The Lord is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. His ways are always the same. The statements I have shared leave no room for misunderstanding.

sky

[Gail]

There is vice in the countryside as well. Just not as much of it. That is where our province's grow ops are located

Right now it is not clear whether the calamities our old earth is suffering is a result of God's displeasure, Satan taking more control of the elements as the angels let go of the winds of strife and mercy is being withdrawn OR purely natural occurences. Take your pick- it could be all 3!

If we are the Lord's it is more imperative that the work go forward, not focusing on this blaming business. I have a feeling that it is truly going to get worse, WAY WORSE before our Lord's return. These kinds of discussions remind me of backseat drivers or armchair quarterbacks- what good are they, really?

It's time to band together and look UP, don't you think? Like discussions of Sabbath and Christmas, the Pope, etc we can take full advantage of these happenings and encourage others to look to Jesus the Finisher of our faith. He is present truth no matter what time it is.

[ClubV12]

"The time is near when the large cities will be visited by the judgments of God."

That is unequivocal. How exactly He accomplishes His purpose is a really a moot point. The hand of man, the hand of the evil one or God's hand directly, the end result is the same.

God asked Moses to set aside so he could utterly wipe out the children of Israel. Moses pleaded and God staid His hand. WHOSE hand, exactly was staid, is again, a moot point.

[abelisle]

quote=ClubV12]Alex, compassion is shown by the WARNING, get out. It's not doom and gloom, it's a reality check vs no warning at all. These things WILL come to pass, that is certain. Some will heed the warning, others will excuse it. Choose which at your own peril, God is TRYING to save those who will listen, thats compassion!

Would you personally just feel good about warning everyone, then go and live comfortably somewhere outside of the city or personally have compassion and help those millions who live in cities.

From the posts I've read recently that you've posted, I see no love, just the desire to warn, chastize and blame.

Where is the love, where is it?

As for me and my family, we will stay here and continue to help the downtrodden, the poor, the addicted, the abused, the under-educated, etc. - all God's children.

BTW, if everyone left the cities, where would they go? What would happen to our economies? Wouldn't there just be other cities forming from the vast numbers who would be leaving?

Also where are the strong Biblical admonitions to leave the cities? Didn't Paul insist on going to Rome while Nero was in power? Aren't cities central to most Biblical stories?

Alex

[SivartM]

So the suggestion is that those who wish the "work the cities" should move their families into the ghettos and inner cities of New York, Boston, Chicago, LA or San Fran? Or maybe just far enough to get to those "nice parks" and clean sidewalks where the "living is easy"? Now don't worry about the vice, sin and crime your kids will be exposed to.

It sounds like you've never seen a city.

[ClubV12]

I don't need to justify my actions or posts, but here is a tid bit to chew on.

I left a big city (moved out) and have relocated to a small town, where I am very active in helping my local community. The city I moved from was WAY more comfortable than where I currently live. I moved because I felt compelled to get away from the constant barrage of sin and vice that is prevalent in a big city. I would encourage ALL others to do the same, especially those with families.

Paul, was SINGLE, he had a calling to work in the big cities, but he had no plans to build or buy a nice house and live there! Jesus found his greatest moments of peace in the country, not the city. He worked both. Don't worry about the city commerce collapsing because you moved out. Their will be plenty of sinners to keep it going right up until it's time of it's destruction, until it's cup is full. The only question is, where will YOU be when that time comes?

[abelisle]

I don't need to justify my actions or posts, but here is a tid bit to chew on.

I left a big city (moved out) and have relocated to a small town, where I am very active in helping my local community. The city I moved from was WAY more comfortable than where I currently live. I moved because I felt compelled to get away from the constant barrage of sin and vice that is prevalent in a big city. I would encourage ALL others to do the same, especially those with families.

Paul, was SINGLE, he had a calling to work in the big cities, but he had no plans to build or buy a nice house and live there! Jesus found his greatest moments of peace in the country, not the city. He worked both. Don't worry about the city commerce collapsing because you moved out. Their will be plenty of sinners to keep it going right up until it's time of it's destruction, until it's cup is full. The only question is, where will YOU be when that time comes?

Good for you. You've made your choice.

Where will I be when that time comes? I'll be where I can help the most people and God will be my judge.

BTW, you still haven't shown any Biblical admonitions to leave the cities - only stuff from the SOP.

[phkrause]

Good for you. You've made your choice.

Where will I be when that time comes? I'll be where I can help the most people and God will be my judge.

BTW, you still haven't shown any Biblical admonitions to leave the cities - only stuff from the SOP.

Good point ab, not saying though that if someone wants to follow the council of EW, than they should do what they feel is right for them and not tell everyone this is what you have to do or else!

[ClubV12]

Here's the problem, the counsel stands on it's own merits.

Get OUT of the cities,,, or else. Not my words, Ellen Whites. The "or else" is that the big cities will soon be visitied with destruction.

If you need to challenge someone, challenge her. I didn't write it, just posted it. Interpret it or twist it as you will, the message is clear. Get out,,, or else.

[phkrause]

Here's the problem, the counsel stands on it's own merits.

Get OUT of the cities,,, or else. Not my words, Ellen Whites. The "or else" is that the big cities will soon be visitied with destruction.

If you need to challenge someone, challenge her. I didn't write it, just posted it. Interpret it or twist it as you will, the message is clear. Get out,,, or else.

Where may I ask is this "or else" statement? I have not seen it.

[Gerr]

One can't make a blanket statement like this in our times. Even EGW mentions the need to work for the cities:

My recollection of her counsel was to work the cities but not live in them.

[Gerr]

I don't need to justify my actions or posts, but here is a tid bit to chew on.

I left a big city (moved out) and have relocated to a small town, where I am very active in helping my local community. The city I moved from was WAY more comfortable than where I currently live. I moved because I felt compelled to get away from the constant barrage of sin and vice that is prevalent in a big city. I would encourage ALL others to do the same, especially those with families.

Most of those who heeded the warning have probably done so already.

[ClubV12]

Bill,, truly with all due respect and love, the "or else" is summed up in her message.

"...that the big cities will soon be visitied with destruction."

Personally, I see that as part and parcel of another important message, "come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her plague", (or words to that affect).

We've all seen the pictures of clogged highways when people flee the cities following a big disaster, or a coming one. Right now people are scrambling to get out out of Tokyo, or Japan in general. The USA has chartered flights for out bound citizens. The roads are a mess, there is little of no fuel to escape the cities now. And where are they going to go? It would be a good idea to have that "place of refuge" already setup if you do live in the city.

It will be a nightmare to get out of LA when the big one hits. Or New York, or Miami, name a city, any big city. And where are you going to go? I've actually anticipated the possibility that some people might need a place to go to. I have extra room, bedding, etc, and am fully prepared to accept them, should the need arise. I bought my current house with that in mind, it is a "place of refuge", out of the city. Not just for me, but as the Lord directs the need, my house is dedicated to His use.

Bill, if the internet is still working when it all hits the fan,,, send me an email, I have an extra bedroom waiting for ya.