Martial Arts and Christianity??

[Guest]

The Martial Arts are rooted in Eastern religion

Some martial artists may never have to defend themselves. Reputation or prudence may get them out of every potentially violent situation and the only blows they ever strike are in the practice studio. It is true that most martial artists do not go around looking for a fight. Joe Hyams, in his book, Zen in the Martial Arts, describes an experience in which he used his expertise to avoid a battle he probably could have won.

But even the Christian who never uses martial arts to purposely injure another and trusts the Lord to protect him is getting involved in a religion that contradicts the teaching of the Bible.

Masutatsu Oyama, in his book, This is Karate, says:

"In many countries around the world, the question, 'What is Zen' often turns up. Usually we answer that Zen is karate and that karate is Zen."

By "Zen," Oyama is referring to Zen Buddhism. In describing Zen Buddhism, Oyama says:

"Concentrate on sincerity and on unifying your spirit. Forget yourself, forget your enemies, forget winning and losing, and when you have done so, you will be in the spiritually unified state that is called mu, or nothingness, in Zen. When you have spiritually reached the state of impassivity you will have entered a corner of the Zen world of mu."

This impassive, "spiritually unified" mental state is identical to that achieved in yoga or other meditation-relaxation techniques, hypnosis or trance mediumship. The Bible forbids such emptying of the mind (Deuteronomy 18:11), calling it one of the "works of the flesh." (Galatians 5:20)

The mental state brought about by such meditation gradually conditions one to adopt a different world view from what a Christian should have. The emptying of the mind brings about a feeling of union with the universe. The word "yoga" means "yoking" or "union." After this experience, the subject can come to believe that he is at one with God or is God, because God is in everything. Arrival at this pantheistic conclusion is the goal of Eastern religions, which teach that man can solve all his problems if only he will realize that he is divine.

It is not surprising that people in this mental state open themselves up to possible demonic influence. The lie they come to believe is almost identical to one Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden: "You will be like God." Even Christians, who have protection from outright Satanic possession, are wise not to court the spiritual oppression this kind of mental state can invite. Yoga is not for Christians. The only "yoke" we should ever take up is Christ's. (Matthew 10:29-30)

Most martial arts teachers include meditation as part of their instruction. The mental conditioning that meditation brings is largely responsible for the amazing physical feats that advanced martial artists do. Focusing the attention on the single task, such as breaking many boards with a bare hand, is brought about by achieving the impassive Zen mental state.

Christians have no business being involved in the martial arts, even at the most elementary level. The one benefit that can be derived from the martial arts -- exercise -- is available in so many other spiritually harmless activities that there is no reason to open oneself up to the spiritual hazards or commission of sin that these techniques lead to.

http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/11.htm

[Gerr]

Is it wrong to learn the martial arts not to maim but to be able to defend one's self? I am not convinced. One doesn't have have to swallow all the bagage that come with karate or the other martial arts. The devil is an expert in mixing error along with the good.

[ClubV12]

I was not a christian when I was raising my son. He has been in martial arts since he was 5 or 6, and continues today (21 now). He is at a very high level and has competed in Japan (and done well). I always thought the discipline, respect and morality were good things, and he has always been a good man. Never in trouble, no drug or wierd stuff, good grades, doing well in college, makes a father proud. Well, since I became a christian he thinks I've flipped out, says he doesn't want to hear all that "brain washing" stuff. He is content with his moral values, he works hard, he's doing well and doesn't need anything from my God.

I blew it, encouraging him in martial arts was a huge mistake. From a worldly stand point, it appears to be a good thing and produces good worldly results too. But it's zero preparation for a christian foundation as far as I can see.

Can you separate the zen thing and just learn the martial part? I don't know, we always embraced both. I'll never encourage anyone to get involved with that again, in any capacity. You might be playing with fire or encouraging someone else to take a path with a dead end.

I hear a lot about how nice the Japanese are, how they all get along, such patient good people. I've seen another side, it's not that pretty. My son is much like the Japanese,,, is that,,, all there is to life? He thinks it's enough, "good man" that he is.

It's like being inoculated against the religion virus.

[Guest]

Wow...! Thanks for sharing that. God can still work a miracle for your son. And for you.

[nuff sed]

Yoga is next on the agenda..........Nuff sed

[cardw]

Looking at the evidence you have provided about your son it would appear that Christianity has nothing to add other than fear.

Fear of Yoga, fear of martial arts, fear of the Japanese, etc. etc.

What harm have any of these done other than to expose the bankrupt claims of Christianity?

[Gerr]

ESV | Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction

[Gerr]

Other kids tried to bully my son after he skipped a grade. I took him to learn martial arts just to learn the basics of self-defense. Did he maim anyone? No. Did he reject Christianity because of it? No.

[ClubV12]

Gerry, there is a substantial difference in taking some courses on self protection vs growing up steeped in a false religion that says "your OK, have no fear."

Only a fool has no fear.

[Tom Wetmore]

One of the few regrets in life that I have is that I fell for this line of thinking when I was learning karate as a teenager. I was progressing quite well and stopped because of confusion over the meditation from ill-informed, ignorant and fearful prejudiced thinking of a Western Christian point of view. If I had been given better understanding I would have realized those fears were overwrought and basically groundless and I would have continued on to a black belt. I now see that this really would not have conflicted with, but more likely complimented, my Christianity.

The head of the dojo from whom I took group instruction, George Dillman, was part of the training team of Mohammad Ali back then in the early 70's at his Deer Lake training camp in Pennsylvania. Dillman is credited with helping improve Ali's speed and style. Dillman is also well known in martial arts esepcially for teaching the art of Ryukyu Kempo which involves, among other things the use of pressure points to disable and subdue an attacker. Google all of this if you are interested.)

Also of those days, I like to tell people that I learned karate from Jesus. My private instructor was Jesus Rodriguez. He insisted on the Anglo pronunciation of his name.

[phkrause]

Gerry, there is a substantial difference in taking some courses on self protection vs growing up steeped in a false religion that says "your OK, have no fear."

Only a fool has no fear.

I think or believe that's the point, are we speaking to the art of martial arts or getting into the philosophy of martial arts? This article leaves no room for any distiction between the the two. I know many christians who have done martial arts just for the enjoyment of exercise, fellowship, etc. and are still in the church and are better christians for there efforts. As Chuck Norris has mentioned on many occasions it also helps with service to the community.

[Woody]

One of the few regrets in life that I have is that I fell for this line of thinking when I was learning karate as a teenager. I was progressing quite well and stopped because of confusion over the meditation from ill-informed, ignorant and fearful prejudiced thinking of a Western Christian point of view. If I had been given better understanding I would have realized those fears were overwrought and basically groundless and I would have continued on to a black belt. I now see that this really would not have conflicted with, but more likely complimented, my Christianity.

The head of the dojo from whom I took group instruction, George Dillman, was part of the training team of Mohammad Ali back then in the early 70's at his Deer Lake training camp in Pennsylvania. Dillman is credited with helping improve Ali's speed and style. Dillman is also well known in martial arts esepcially for teaching the art of Ryukyu Kempo which involves, among other things the use of pressure points to disable and subdue an attacker. Google all of this f you are interested.)

Also of those days, I like to tell people that I learned karate from Jesus. My private instructor was Jesus Rodriguez. He insisted on the Anglo pronunciation of his name.

[cardw]

Gerry, there is a substantial difference in taking some courses on self protection vs growing up steeped in a false religion that says "your OK, have no fear."

Only a fool has no fear.

Only a fool calls fear wisdom.

Because if fear is wisdom then perfect love casts out all wisdom.

Fear is a useless emotion most of the time. It freezes you and takes up a lot of bandwidth that could be used for thinking and being aware of your surroundings.

The meditation in many martial arts is to make you alert and relaxed. This is a functional state of mind. Fear only gets in the way of this state.

The problem with much of Christian teaching is that it is based on fear even though Christians go around and give lip service to the idea that god is love.

No one converts because they love Christianity. They convert because they don't want to die.

I was out washing my car today and these two boys came to give me a flyer for their Easter presentation at a local church. The fear was palpable. I graciously accepted their flyer, but they were tongue tied. I remember doing this as a teen and it was torture. Now if I was going to talk about cars, skateboarding, or sports I would have had no problem, but when it comes to religion it is painfully obvious that it's about fear.

[doug yowell]

Fear is a useless emotion most of the time. It freezes you and takes up a lot of bandwidth that could be used for thinking and being aware of your surroundings.

The meditation in many martial arts is to make you alert and relaxed. This is a functional state of mind. Fear only gets in the way of this state.

Your point is well taken,Grasshopper. Meditation in the martial arts without a corresponding practice of the physical attachments is a foolish attempt at overcoming fear in the presence of real danger.The Shaolin who only meditates would be wise to act on his fears as would the master who neglects the preparation of his spirit. You have learned well.

Now,grab this pebble out of my hand.

[doug yowell]

I was out washing my car today and these two boys came to give me a flyer for their Easter presentation at a local church. The fear was palpable. I graciously accepted their flyer, but they were tongue tied. I remember doing this as a teen and it was torture. Now if I was going to talk about cars, skateboarding, or sports I would have had no problem, but when it comes to religion it is painfully obvious that it's about fear.

That's because none of those other fun things would touch someone else's heart. A man's religion is a man's soul. If it was as meaningless as the other things so easily talked about we wouldn't have to worry about the response.

[ClubV12]

There is a way that seems right to man, but the end is death.

Fear, or reality based statement?

If you think it's fear, live it up man, buy more toys, do good works that you may receive the adoration of men, have a good time, because this life is the only life you will know.

God has given us plenty of warnings about many things, you can reject them or accept them. You can call them fear, or you can call them a promise of delivery from certain doom.

Noah delivered a warning, it caused some fear initially, but after careful consideration, and scientific proof, the fear went away. It was replaced with bold mocking, party on dude! Until it was to late, then what was fear, became abject terror, well beyond fear. Noah's family had no fear, they accepted the promise of delivery, on faith.

God's warnings do not leave me with fear, but a promise of delivery.

Fear, or reality check, your call. No one is forcing you to choose this day whom you will serve, but you WILL choose, by your actions, by your life. You will either serve the god of this world, and may not even recognize it as such, or the living God.

I won't submit myself to a half way commitment, in the end, the choice is yes, or no, there is no inbetween.

[olger]

I was involved in Tae Kwon Do as a lad and thought it was fun to kick a basketball net and all sorts of other things.

After accepting Jesus I realized that it was not compatible with Christianity. Things that I have learned since then have added to that conviction. My friend (and sensei) Steve McCall gets way into that eastern metaphysical stuff when we talk sometimes. I do my best to help him see beyond that.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Only a fool calls fear wisdom.

Well, I must have been a fool for fearing being in debt. My fear of debt has kept me out of trouble all these years.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

Fear is a useless emotion most of the time. It freezes you and takes up a lot of bandwidth that could be used for thinking and being aware of your surroundings.

The meditation in many martial arts is to make you alert and relaxed. This is a functional state of mind. Fear only gets in the way of this state.

Your point is well taken,Grasshopper. Meditation in the martial arts without a corresponding practice of the physical attachments is a foolish attempt at overcoming fear in the presence of real danger.The Shaolin who only meditates would be wise to act on his fears as would the master who neglects the preparation of his spirit. You have learned well.

Now,grab this pebble out of my hand.

This is why you are a bully. Instead of addressing the issue your tactic is to taunt. You seem to be incapable of actually having an honest conversation.

[cardw]

There is a way that seems right to man, but the end is death.

Fear, or reality based statement?

If you think it's fear, live it up man, buy more toys, do good works that you may receive the adoration of men, have a good time, because this life is the only life you will know.

[cardw]

Quote:

Only a fool calls fear wisdom.

Well, I must have been a fool for fearing being in debt. My fear of debt has kept me out of trouble all these years.

How about instead of fearing debt simply reason it through. Take your dreams and use that as motivation to plan and create.

Who needs fear when you have inspiration?

[ClubV12]

"You believe in a god who needs to have his son die a horrible tortuous death..."

Why yes, I do, thanks for asking. You cannot violate man's laws without paying the price. You cannot violate God's law's without paying the price. It's that simple.

While man's laws are ever changing, God's law is perfect, it always has been, it ever will be. An earthly court won't let someone else suffer your sentence on your behalf. But in the heavenly court, the price has already been paid. You need only accept it. Or, if you choose, you may suffer the sentence yourself. One way or the other, justice WILL be served in the end, the law demands it.

[doug yowell]

These are all fear based stories that warn us about crossing this god of violence you worship.

Maybe I'm unusual but I didn't become a Christian because I was afraid of a god of violence. Nor do I continue to pursue Him because He threatens me with a violent punishment. In fact He promised to release me from any fear of death either in the future judgment or tomorrow's unforeseen calamity. He tells me what's coming so I can be well prepared to think and act properly when I face uncertainty. Much like the martial arts instructor when trying to prepare his student for what they may face in the future. Yet you see the kung fu guru as wise and the God of the Bible as a fear mongering psycho while admitting that both address what will surely be a part of the process.If the karate kid wasn't afraid of being beat up he probably wouldn't be taking lessons from Kwai Chang.My mother imposed laws that regulated behavior in our household and assured us what the consequences of disobedience would be (I'm guessing that was the case in your home too).She also worked two jobs in order to clothe,feed, and shelter us. Should I consider her a misfit that could only resort to violence in order to control her otherwise wonderful children?

[doug yowell]

Well, I must have been a fool for fearing being in debt. My fear of debt has kept me out of trouble all these years.

How about instead of fearing debt simply reason it through. Take your dreams and use that as motivation to plan and create.

Who needs fear when you have inspiration?

Yes, like Bernie Madoff or Charles Ponzi? Every human being has a fear aspect to them, attempts to ignore or destroy it are futile.Humans are incapable of naturally reasoning out every danger.Fear serves as the great guardian of whatever their dreams(or delusions)are.

[cardw]

Yes, like Bernie Madoff or Charles Ponzi? Every human being has a fear aspect to them, attempts to ignore or destroy it are futile.Humans are incapable of naturally reasoning out every danger.Fear serves as the great guardian of whatever their dreams(or delusions)are.

What is with you? What makes you think I am promoting greed and ponzi schemes simply because I suggest one might like to be motivated by inspiration instead of fear?

You take things I do not say and present them as truth. I don't appreciate being lied about.

If this is the type of "reasoning" you use, then no wonder you need fear to operate.