CoAspen Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 I'm thinking of a song here...'rolling...rolling, head 'em up, head em out...'! (missing a letter) Top states Info is easy to find.....to many lazy fingers!! Quote
bonnie Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 I'm thinking of a song here...'rolling...rolling, head 'em up, head em out...'! (missing a letter) Top states Info is easy to find.....to many lazy fingers!! What is the point of looking for info on evangelicals and porn in this discussion? There is nothing to indicate the article was written by a evangelical,especially one that viewed porn himself. Osama's conduct was Osama's problem.I seriously doubt he was led astray by evangelicals viewing porn. If you are running sin comparisons have you checked out how many followers of Islam view porn? Someone from this forum not to long ago had this to say concerning a moral fall.... He who is with out sin, cast the first stone. JC Does that apply to evangelicals as well,or only our own and those of the muslim faith? What is the connection between porn found in Osama's compound and evangelicals? Is it a desire to make Osama the lesser of the evils? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Overaged Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 You are right on with this Bonnie. The entire insinuation here re evangelicals is really pointless and unproven at best. I liked what you said re "sin comparisons." Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
olger Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Lots of people in that compound, no real evidence that it belonged to Osama himself. And I'm pretty sure Islam actually has quite strict rules about sexual purity. Not defending Osama, Islam or porn. Defending truth-telling. David David. The truth is that "Bad company corrupts good judgement" (1 Corinthians 15:33). While we do not know for sure that Bin Laden viewed pornography, there is a VERY high likelihood that he did. It is also very unlikely that anything went on in that house that he did not approve. "Blessed is the man that does not condemn himself by what he approves." Same goes for you and I. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 18, 2011 Administrators Posted July 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore Fairly simple statistical analysis. Compare purchases of pornography in areas with high population density of evangelicals with areas where it is low. Also tracking visits to porn sites from computers located in the Bible Belt with other areas of the country. One can also note the number and success of live porn, i.e., strip joints and so-called "gentlemen's clubs", in the Bible Belt as compared with other areas of the country. In other words you have no proof of this claim; or else you would have provided it? You just asked how one would prove this. You didn't ask for evidence or proof. If you are skeptical of what Bravus posted, Google "evangelicals" and "porn" and see what you come up with. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Overaged Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 If you check Tom I did challenge you to prove it but it's like I said You don't have any You stated a personal opion as if were proven fact And since when does Google know everything and we just blindly trust whatever turns up? There is such a thing as evidence and such a thing as not Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
teresaq Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Bravus ...and usage of porn is highest in the US states with the highest concentrations of evangelical Christians. I am not sure how you would prove this. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Overaged Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 What on earth is the difference? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
bonnie Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 What on earth is the difference? The problem is distain for evangelicals or for that matter all things conservative. You can't miss the attempt to put evangelicals in a worse light than Osama,a murdering thug without a conscience. There is no other reason to compare evangelicals to Osama Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Parade Orange Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 dont get me started on OSAMA AND EVANGELICALS! WHY is everyone surprised Osama being a impure/porn craver? that culture puts women in moving tents for a few horrific reasons! one of them being they cant control themselves around women! they have to keep the girls bagged so they wont go apey apey monkey monkey nuzzeling on them BTW im not talking individuals but as an older ancient violence under the surface SOCIETY they dont trust themselves and they think if the women can dress anyway they want- a few will put on shorter and tighter clothes and make the men misbehave in spades. they really really have trouble with knowing what to do with women i wasnt surprised btw i confessed here a few years ago my dad's granfather came from the middle east and my name is very ethnic and people take note in these ruff middle east times thats been going on forever Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 18, 2011 Administrators Posted July 18, 2011 What on earth is the difference? That I should have to explain the difference does explain quite a few misunderstandings that occur around here... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 18, 2011 Administrators Posted July 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Overaged What on earth is the difference? The problem is distain for evangelicals or for that matter all things conservative. You can't miss the attempt to put evangelicals in a worse light than Osama,a murdering thug without a conscience. There is no other reason to compare evangelicals to Osama Perhaps you missed the valid point made by Bravus that precipitated this little adventure in missing the point... Originally Posted By: Bravus Lots of people in that compound, no real evidence that it belonged to Osama himself. And I'm pretty sure Islam actually has quite strict rules about sexual purity. Not defending Osama, Islam or porn. Defending truth-telling. Originally Posted By: Bravus ...and usage of porn is highest in the US states with the highest concentrations of evangelical Christians. Again, not having a go at Christians or defending porn. These are just very, very shallow levels of thought and attack. The operative comparison is that both Islam and evangelicals have "strict rules about sexual purity." Such ideas of sexuality are generally common conservative religious values across all religions. Evangelicals are religiously conservative. Islam and more particularly the Osama end of the Islamic spectrum is very religiously conservative. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 18, 2011 Administrators Posted July 18, 2011 If you check Tom I did challenge you to prove it but it's like I said You don't have any You stated a personal opion as if were proven fact And since when does Google know everything and we just blindly trust whatever turns up? There is such a thing as evidence and such a thing as not Maybe if you would have a go at it yourself rather than arguing in the vacuum of not even trying to find out, you might actually discover such things as - http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Internet+p......-a0225934563 . That is a limited attempt to study the issue in question. It also explains the "evidence" that precipitated the inquiry of the study. There have been numerous articles, not just in the popular media, but also in Christian publications noting the problem that conservative sexual mores do not result in a high level of behavioral compliance with those mores. This is not new stuff. It has been a point of concern for years. I am mystified that you are seeming to prefer taking an ostrich approach to the issue. In a similar line of thought, conservative religious sexual mores regarding premarital sex do not result in a matching behavioral compliance with those moral values. See - http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Internet+p......-a0225934563 . Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Moderators Bravus Posted July 18, 2011 Moderators Posted July 18, 2011 Tom has clarified the flow of my argument, but there are none so blind as they who will not see. Osama was an evil human being, but that doesn't justify promoting guesses about what he did and didn't do in relation to porn to certainty. Porn is a thing people hide from others: if an underling was using it and Osama wasn't checking under every mattress every day... The truth is important. And, given that commitment on my part, I don't just make stuff up. Here's the evidence on porn in conservative US states: http://www.columbiamissourian.com/media/multimedia/2009/03/10/media/redlightstates.pdf Now, the same caveats apply: the correlation on a state-by-state basis doesn't mean it's the Christians in those states who are using the porn. It could be other people. But many Christian sources also cite a finding that around 50% of Christian men and 20% of Christian women regularly use porn. Quote Truth is important
bonnie Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Perhaps you missed the valid point made by Bravus that precipitated this little adventure in missing the point... Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Bravus Posted July 18, 2011 Moderators Posted July 18, 2011 Is it OK to bear false witness? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere in Exodus that it's not. 'Osama is a murderous, cowardly thug...' - true and agreed. 'Osama is a porn user...' - unproven The latter is far less bad than the former on any sensible moral scale, so why even bother talking about the latter when the former is proven truth? The fact that someone is evil does not justify breaking our own Commandments. Quote Truth is important
bonnie Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Is it OK to bear false witness? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere in Exodus that it's not. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Dr. Shane Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 The problem is disdain for evangelicals or for that matter all things conservative. I think you are right there, Bonnie but the critics on this point are missing a big piece of the puzzle. Most evangelicals teach easy grace. So watching porn or going to a "gentleman's" club isn't a big deal. Jesus will forgive you. Jesus saved you from your sins - past, present and *future*. So you have nothing to worry about. A company I worked for hired a manager that had went to a evangelical Bible college and worked as a pastor previously. He wore his faith on his sleeve for everyone to see. He lost his job for sexual harassment and afterward they found porn on his company computer. His biggest worry for me was that I was too concerned about obeying God. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
bonnie Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I think you are right there, Bonnie but the critics on this point are missing a big piece of the puzzle. Most evangelicals teach easy grace. So watching porn or going to a "gentleman's" club isn't a big deal. Jesus will forgive you. Jesus saved you from your sins - past, present and *future*. So you have nothing to worry about........ His biggest worry for me was that I was too concerned about obeying God. Strange,the above sounds like a good liberal. The only sin they seem to recognize is believing something is a sin and the unpardonable is saying it is. Then you become judgemental and unforgiving. It would take a lot to believe this was supposed to be innocent. I would bet the farm if this had been an article concerning a well known evangelical being referred to, Osama would not have come into the conversation.Not out of respect for the evangelical, but to guard against anything that could be seen as disapproval of Islam. No comparison would have been made. IF and it is a big if,Osama is so faithful to his "religious" belief,what kind of a moron would it take to bring porn into a closed enviroment. The strong "religious" conviction if true of Osama would end up cutting your head off. But regardless, Osama's behaviour has nothing whatsoever to do with evangelicals. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Bravus Posted July 18, 2011 Moderators Posted July 18, 2011 The porn+evangelicals example was used as a very simple - and familiar to the audience - example of a gap between words and actions. The goal was *not* to malign evangelicals, and any 'disdain' (note spelling) for them is entirely in your head. Quote Truth is important
bonnie Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 The porn+evangelicals example was used as a very simple - and familiar to the audience - example of a gap between words and actions. The goal was *not* to malign evangelicals, and any 'disdain' (note spelling) for them is entirely in your head. Sorry,when the object of the report is Osama,a well known follower of Islam and a murdering cowardly vicious thug,what other "gap" between words and actions are needed. The story could have stood on it's own. Followers of Islam are reported to be against porn and yet.... No,I believe it is in your head.Not to long ago you began a topic of "why evangelicals hate Christ" or something similar. Not a problem for many of you as long as it was evangelicals. Not a chance you would have begun a discussion on "Why so many followers of Islam are cowardly murderer's or why do they hate God,or any other derogatory definition. Thankfully,even if the remarks did not stop someone finally dicided the title was inappropriate. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Bravus Posted July 19, 2011 Moderators Posted July 19, 2011 You know the definition of prejudice, right? Ascribing the bad characteristics of your 'outgroup' - in this case Islam - to the whole group and the bad characteristics of the 'ingroup' you belong to to the individual members of the group. Classic examples abound. Some Muslims are murdering thugs, some are kind and gentle people. Some Christians are child abusers, some are kind and gentle people. At this moment in history, more Muslims than Christians are terrorists, but it was not always so. People are people. No *group* is to be exceptional in being either praised nor blamed. Evangelicals do many good an positive things, but they also do some evil things. Those things ought not to be beyond the pale to challenge. I've thought about this: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=2300 Quote Truth is important
bonnie Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 You know the definition of prejudice, right? Ascribing the bad characteristics of your 'outgroup' - in this case Islam - to the whole group and the bad characteristics of the 'ingroup' you belong to to the individual members of the group. Classic examples abound. Some Muslims are murdering thugs, some are kind and gentle people. Some Christians are child abusers, some are kind and gentle people. At this moment in history, more Muslims than Christians are terrorists, but it was not always so. People are people. No *group* is to be exceptional in being either praised nor blamed. Evangelicals do many good an positive things, but they also do some evil things. Those things ought not to be beyond the pale to challenge. I've thought about this: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=2300 Great,hopefully that means you will no longer draw comparisons between evangelicals and Osama and his ilk. If you feel a need to do so it sounds like we can anticipate you comparing the kind and gentle evangelicals to the kind and loving muslims. Seems like progress to me Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Parade Orange Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 btw i posted my dad's granfathers heritage just to let her know i didnt hate middle eastern people my post was heavy handed and me making generalizations about a whole sect of people is a negative way i read it and thought 'O MY' then i had to refect my own fathers family tree both my dad and grandad had porn in their caves too! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
teresaq Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Hey Bravus, Just so you know, I understood what you said, and what you meant. :) Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
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