The "amalgamation" issue - once again

[abelisle]

Here's a good read on this perplexing statement:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/56488321/True-...eory-Revisited#

Alex

[CoAspen]

Hmmmm...very interesting. Progress, progress and more progress is what I see in EGW's life through here writings. What impresses me more, is that we must continue to stress the Bible and what it teaches, salvation through Christ. My other thought was that the church has always struggled with the 'straining of nats' theology, as we even continue to do so, today!

[Parade Orange]

progressive progressive progressive

ever growing ever changing ever learning ever healing

hmmmm....

CHRISTIANS ARNT PERFECT THEY JUST EXPECT U TO BE

[abelisle]

Check this out !

Garnett Weir - Sat, 05/28/2011 - 01:49

Ron,

Yours is a very useful contribution to the discussion on this matter, but I see that you have completely ignored B.F. Snook & Wm. H. Brinkerhoff''s allegation that Mrs. White had identified the race spoken of. In their 1866 publication " The Visions of E. G. White", they identified the race of men that she had referred to by stating :

"But what are we to understand by certain races of men? She has not informed us in her writings, but left us to fix the stigma of amalgamation where we may see fit. But the interpretation has come to light. She told it to her husband, and he made it known to Eld. Ingraham, and he divulged the secret to the writer, that Sister White had seen that God never made the Darkey. "

In other words , the "darky" was the product of the "amalgamation of man and beast"

No one has to question what was the meaning of " the Darky" in the American context and especially at that time.

Mrs. E. G. White had over fifty years to refute that base allegation and she did not.

James White had sixteen years in which to refute that base allegation and he did not.

Elder Ingraham ( presumably William Ingraham) also could have refuted that base allegation but did not.

Why do you think that they all ignored it . Could it be that it was the truth.

Uriah Smith was a stranger to the statement, and by his own confession did not even consult with the author on it. Yet he seeks to interpret it. BALDERDASH.! The allegation by Snook and Brinkerhoff was a matter for Mrs. White alone to deal with and she should have dealt with it. It should never have been left to the spinners who are still attempting to spin it.

Now, my question to you Ron is Why did you ignore that allegation or refuse to explore it .

Were you unaware of it.

GTW

[ClubV12]

Sound like little more than "rumor has it". I don't care for rumor's myself.

[Light Fox]

Interesting read. Thanks for the share.

[phkrause]

I just checked this out. Very interesting.

[phkrause]

I think this guy needs to put up his evidence! I hear him trying to stir up trouble. I just read the 2 chapters in SGs that pertain to the Flood, she mentions "amalgamation" about three times and that's it. The reason for the flood had to do with this from what I can gather. I think I'll except Ron's version over this Garnett guy.

[CoAspen]

When I talk about the 'progress' in EGW's writings, I'm speaking to her understanding of the issues she wrote about, changing/evolving/etc. Too much was made of her use of the word 'amalgamation' with many people clinging to the understanding of the worlds use in that time. Definitions/understanding can and do change over time.

If what she wrote, originally, was the 'truth', then I would truly examine why I continue to be a member of the SDA church!

[BobRyan]

progressive progressive progressive

ever growing ever changing ever learning

[BobRyan]

Sound like little more than "rumor has it". I don't care for rumor's myself.

Agreed - but for "some" that is the "currency" in which they deal.

To each his own.

in Christ,

Bob

[miz3]

Fascinating!

[BobRyan]

Hint - keep reading

[Johnnboy]

"The black man’s name is written in the book of life beside the white man’s. All are one in Christ. Birth, station, nationality, or color cannot elevate or degrade men. The character makes the man. If a red man, a Chinaman, or an African gives his heart to God in obedience and faith, Jesus loves him none the less for his color. He calls him His well-beloved brother."—The Southern Work, p. 8

"...if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8

[Johnnboy]

Acts 17:24, 26 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; ...And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,..."

[Parade Orange]

praise GOD JOHNBOY

its a relief to see these quotes

[BobRyan]

"The black man’s name is written in the book of life beside the white man’s. All are one in Christ. Birth, station, nationality, or color cannot elevate or degrade men. The character makes the man. If a red man, a Chinaman, or an African gives his heart to God in obedience and faith, Jesus loves him none the less for his color. He calls him His well-beloved brother."—The Southern Work, p. 8

"...if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8

Ellen White and James White were both very active in the "God will get you" style messages opposing slavery. They stated that no Christian could support slavery. They were very bold, very active on this "value of human life" question in their day.

It remains for the SDA church to CONTINUE to be active on the updated and more current "value of human life" issues facing us today instead of trying to "imagine" that Ellen White was hateful toward people of other races.

Facts are much better than rumor and hearsay when it comes to listening to those engaged in slandering the people of God.

in Christ,

Bob

[Parade Orange]

i must confess i grew up in a hedonistic heathen liberal home and my parents didnt have anything against racial marriages

they never made the distinction between humans

i innocently asked my SDA minister about racial marriages and he said God says it is wrong!

i was 13

i was shocked that GOD said it was wrong

i knew i couldnt tell my parents what the minister said cause they already had a poor opinion of SDA's and i didnt want to add to it

so i absorbed it and had no place to connect it with or to flesh it out

i as a child hung on every word

i saw how they talked about others who didnt believe as they do

i started to think that way too

i thought thats how to see others

i connectted it all together in a warp view of GOD

i started getting a rather ugly idea of GOD

of course as i figured who GOD was as i started to get older i realized GOD wasnt like this

His people were

i realize as an adult these christians arent good to be around

they arent nice

and some here are like the ones i grew up with

but anyhooo

God teaches us to carry a SPIRIT OF FORGIVENESS!

JESUS said FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO

[fccool]

Quote:

“But if there was one sin above any other which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. God purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that hadcorrupted their ways before him.”

Note that it does not say "man with beast".

[ClubV12]

You know, the bible also talks about not mixing certain crops as well. In general I get the impression that "hybrids", of all types (plant, animal, man), are not recommended.

[BobRyan]

In this case we have this statement from Ellen White that is NOT merely hear-say speculation and false accusation (so near and dear to some "other" message boards).

Quote:

“But if there was one sin above any other which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. God purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that hadcorrupted their ways before him.”

Note that it does not say "man with beast".

Now the other thing to note is this.

TODAY we have amalgamation of man WITH beast and it is NOT via the wildly speculative methods suggested in Alex's source article.

We have human animal hybrid-chimeras being "created" in the lab... but we have been given assurances that if the rats with human brains begin acting "too human" they will of course kill the rats.

How "nice" of them to make that generous offer.

Instead of carping and whining about what Ellen White said in this regard - we should be "duly warned" that our engaging in this activity will bring upon us the same world-wide destructive punishment visited upon the world according to 2Peter 3.

[fccool]

Would it be "one sin above any other which called for the destruction"? The plant hybridization happens naturally in nature. Likewise, animal hybridization can happen naturally.

Is human mixing a "sin worthy of destruction", or perhaps it's just a result of further cultural understanding?

Is racial diversity really that terrible of a thing? After all, what's racial diversity? How did we get multiple races from Noah's family?

[fccool]

Quote:

1. The text does not say that the amalgation of animals defaces the image of God - it says that the amalgamation of animals produces the many confused species. ZdonK anyone?, Liger anyone? Real not fiction, not mere "hearsay".

Why would liger be such a terrible thing?

Quote:

2. The mixing of the saints with the wicked in Gen 6 resulted in the destruction of the world - "according to the text" so saying that is out of bounds - is rather odd.

That's a rather odd way to describe what was going on in Gen 6. "Amalgamation of man and beast that is evident in certain races.."? You did not answer which races she's talking about.

Quote:

3. I mentioned BOTH the Gen 6 issue (amalgamation of mankind with mankind -- saints with the wicked) AND I gave the modern day example of mice with human brains, (pigs with human blood etc could also have been listed), rats with human ears etc. Either of these would serve the point of defacing the image of God (man was made in the image of God).

How would that have happened in time of Genesis? Did these people experimented inseminating animals?

[Gerr]

Would it be "one sin above any other which called for the destruction"? The plant hybridization happens naturally in nature. Likewise, animal hybridization can happen naturally.

There IS a hybridization that takes place naturally in nature. That is true. But since the advent of genetic engineering, "hybridization" can now be accomplished by taking DNA segments from one species and inserted into the DNA of a totally different species or genus or family.

Quote:

Is racial diversity really that terrible of a thing? After all, what's racial diversity? How did we get multiple races from Noah's family?

Look around you. God loves diversity. We can see diversity from the macrocosmos to the microcosm.

Quote:

what's racial diversity?

While there are obvious differences between peoples, yet the racial categorizations is, IMO, artificial & arbitrary. If you were to line up the different peoples of the world, you actually have a continuum. There are Caucasians who are very dark. There are Hans who are as light skinned as Caucasians. There are Africans whose noses and facial features that resemble Caucasians. So I see the racial categorizations as somewhat arbitrary, born, if I recall correctly, out of perceived European racial superiority.

[fccool]

Gerry,

Exactly my point. But, I'll still wait for Bob's answer.