What is a TRUE "Protestant"? and who are they today?

[Stan]

ever notice when people speak about the tares and the wheat.... they act like they are the wheat?

I say not "Show me the money" but "Show me the fruit..."

just sayin'

[BarbaraLynn]

Stan, I find your post confusing. Are you suggesting that all that speak of the wheat and tares should "act like" they are tares instead of wheat? Are you implying that you are a tare?

[Guest]

Now there's some food for thought....

[Parade Orange]

if anyone says they are TARES they are immediatly discounted and every post the put up in any thread past or present or fture will not be taken seriously

they have rejected GOD's mercy and there is no hope for them

any insight or fact or revelation is counted void

they are quickly kicked to the curb

our hands will plug our children's ears if we see them speak at church

we will disdain them and their whole being

we will tell others not to pay attention to them

we wont pray or show them scriptures

for they made up their minds and hearts against the lord

they cant be a missionary project!

why are they still living?

are they here to taint us... or to taunt us?

o dear! more persecution!

[miz3]

ever notice when people speak about the tares and the wheat.... they act like they are the wheat?

This statement is dead on the bulls eye!

[Pastor_Chick]

I went back to the top and noticed this from BarbaraLynn:

Pastor Chick,

A true protestant is one that protests the following:

1. The intrusion of the civil magistrate into matters of faith

2. The arbitrary authority of the church

Anyone who protests the civil government's involvement in matters of religious conviction, as well as any authority that a church exercises that is not based upon the Word of God, is a TRUE protestant.

[miz3]

Well, I have noticed the Davidian SDAs and the Reform SDAs seem to follow our line of thought on this subject, though they appear to remain more theoretical than practical.

Its interesting for you to admit association with the David Koresh group.

Does the word "Fanaticism" come to mind?

Watch out Betty Lynn he's targeting you or is it too late already?

[skyblue888]

There are true protestants in the SDA church today just as there were in the Jewish Church in the days of Christ and in the Dark Ages but they are always the few. God knows who they are and through them He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness. They will be despised and hated. Satan knows this and he has prepared a counterfeit or many counterfeits.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

So, are there any "Protestants" existing today?

Well, I have noticed the Davidian SDAs [...]

Here are the relevant references for some of the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherd%27s_Rod

http://shepherds-rod-speaks.org/2011/02/adventists-abortion-and-trademarks/

http://shepherds-rod-speaks.org/?s=creation+seventh+day

[miz3]

Pastorchick,

You and the Davidians, Shepperd's Rod, etc. are not Protestants.

As has been pointed out to you already, the Protestant Reformation and the resulting organizations that came from it were Protesting:

1. Roman Catholic religious abuses that put church tradition above the Scriptures.

2. The Roman Catholic Church's dominance and control of the civil as well as all religious authorities.

Your assertion that the SDA Church is making an image to this beast does not hold up on either of these counts.

1. The SDA Church does not put tradition above the Scriptures.

2. The SDA Church does NOT CONTROL the civil authorities.

3. The SDa Church is not the sole religious entity shutting down all opposition. Everyone is still free to worship according to their conscience provided that such entities do not try and STEAL THE NAME AND PROPERTY possessed by the SDA Church.

4. You are aware pastorchick that coveting, stealing, and lying are sins against the Commandments of God. You have broken all three of these Commandments at minimum and yet you claim that you have overcome all known sin.

I think you sin slip is showing!

[Pastor_Chick]

A true Protestant and a "Babylonian fanatic" can not walk together, because they do not agree.

The definition of a "Babylonian fanatic" is one who babels on when no one is seriously listening.

Interestingly, the true Protestant intercedes on behalf of such a mind of confusion with hopes that ignorance and spiritual declination might be overcome.

[miz3]

A true Protestant and a "Babylonian fanatic" can not walk together, because they do not agree.

The definition of a "Babylonian fanatic" is one who babels on when no one is seriously listening.

Interestingly, the true Protestant intercedes on behalf of such a mind of confusion with hopes that ignorance and spiritual declination might be overcome.

Is this a personal attack on me, pastorchick?

Does this also mean that you are interceding on my behalf?

If you were referring to me as being ignorant then why do you refuse to not educate me by answering my questions?

Still sounds like a personal attack!

[CoAspen]

Prot·es·tant

n.

1. A member of a Western Christian church whose faith and practice are founded on the principles of the Reformation, especially in the acceptance of the Bible as the sole source of revelation, in justification by faith alone, and in the universal priesthood of all the believers.

Further Explanation

Again, I ask, whose definition are we using?

[CoAspen]

Hmmmm, looking at the sites for Sheperds Rod makes me wonder if they are not reinventing themselves again! Having lived in TX, I am well acquainted with them since grade school. Do we have an off shoot of them here masquerading as creation sda's?

[miz3]

CoAspen,

Both your posts are very good.

I too have had some contact with Davidians from Texas they do sound like soul mates in numerous ways. Davidians and Sheperd's Rod have been around for decades.

SDA purifying offshoots will always exist. Some gather more traction than do others. One thing you can count on though is they all claim to have the absolute real truth and that SDA have rejected this vital truth they claim to hold.

[Light Fox]

Perhaps you missed it the last time I responded:

Originally Posted By: Qinael

"The principles contained in this celebrated Protest ... constitute the very essence of Protestantism. Now this Protest opposes two abuses of man in matters of faith: the first is the intrusion of the civil magistrate, and the second the arbitrary authority of the church. Instead of these abuses, Protestantism sets the power of conscience above the magistrate, and the authority of the word of God above the visible church. In the first place, it rejects the civil power in divine things, and says with the prophets and apostles, ‘We must obey God rather than man.’ In presence of the crown of Charles the Fifth, it uplifts the crown of Jesus Christ. But it goes farther: it lays down the principle that all human teaching should be subordinate to the oracles of God.”—Ibid., b. 13, ch. 6. The protesters had moreover affirmed their right to utter freely their convictions of truth. They would not only believe and obey, but teach what the word of God presents, and they denied the right of priest or magistrate to interfere. The Protest of Spires was a solemn witness against religious intolerance, and an assertion of the right of all men to worship God according to the dictates of their own consciences." [Great Controversy 203']

I tend to trust Inspiration over Wikipedia.

If you're curious, the "Ibid" is D'aubigne's History of the Reformation. So, to put it a way you hopefully won't miss... the definition is that of Ellen White and Protestant historians.

[CoAspen]

Trying to tie the use of the Church name in all of this is a stretch of the imagination similar to the string theory! Would suggest those that continue down the road in that direction have lost site of the ulitimate goal and are sidetracking themselves.

[Light Fox]

Trying to tie the use of the Church name in all of this is a stretch of the imagination similar to the string theory! Would suggest those that continue down the road in that direction have lost site of the ulitimate goal and are sidetracking themselves.

I must have missed something. Can you direct me to the post in this thread talking about church names?

If you're intending to introduce that topic yourself, I suppose it would be worthwhile to consider if Adventists that have resisted the SDA trademark fit the bill of a "Protestant" as defined by the above quotes. Was that your intention?

Also, are you satisfied that the Wikipedia entry is not a complete definition of Protestantism, given the Ellen White testimony on the subject? That's really what we were talking about, so I'd like to have some closure on it. I'd hate to see that dictionary reference popping up from you yet again in another couple pages. :)

[miz3]

Qinael,

The Ellen White quote does not apply to you or to the Creation SDA Church. You are twisting the Prophet Ellen White's words. I have told you before that, that quote is not saying what you want it to say.

The Roman Church dominated all religious authorities.

The Roman Church dominated all civil authorities.

The SDA Church DOES NOT dominate all religious authorities.

The SDA Church DOWS NOT dominate all civil authorities.

Ellen white was talking about a power that dominated both the religious authorities and dominated the civil authorities as well.

The SDA Church does not even come close to this description. You are not even close in you analysis of the Ellen White quotes.

[CoAspen]

Also, are you satisfied that the Wikipedia entry is not a complete definition of Protestantism, given the Ellen White testimony on the subject?

I wasn't aware that EGW wrote a dictionery.

[Light Fox]

CoAspen,

Okay. So, your point is that Ellen White didn't write a dictionary, so what she did write regarding what religious terms (like Protestant) mean doesn't matter?

By the way, if anyone wants to open up a thread along the lines of "Is the Trademark the Mark of the Beast" or "CSDAs Arent Protestants" or whatever, you know, feel free. I really don't know why you two keep insisting on trying to dominate threads with this stuff. You're the only ones that have even brought up the SDA Church, the CSDA Church, or Church names here. You actually seem more intent on talking about the CSDA Church than I do, which is a little... off.

If you're really that worked up over what my (our) beliefs are, you might want to stop and take a look in the mirror. I don't remember any of the apostles chasing people down to argue with them, or just yelling louder when they were ignored. That was usually the people trying to get them stoned or arrested, as memory serves.

[Pastor_Chick]

I remembered this statement that probably came from Bible Readings for the Home Circle.

"The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her Founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant, claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh Day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant. . . ." The Catholic Universe Bulletin, Aug. 14, 1942, p. 4.

It seems that the Catholics understand a bit more about Protestantism than some professedly "Protestants."

[Pastor_Chick]

There are several users here who adamantly cling to a dictionary definition of "Protestant." That is a dangerous position to hold.

The Bible speaks of "the beast" which is regarded by SDA expositors as the Papacy (head of the Roman Catholic Church).

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.