Israfel Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I notice there have been a few threads discussing the nature of the Godhead, and whether or not it is a Trinity. I would like to use this thread to have a discussion about the SDA perspective on these things. Quote "He will give his angel charge over thee, to keep thee"
Pastor_Chick Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 "IT" is a Trinity? Gustave, Can you describe what you mean by "a Trinity"? I think there are many different views of what that word means. Here is a graphic that indicates the claims of the Roman Catholic community. It would appear from the information there given that the apostles did not know about "the Trinity." Source: http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2000Dec/dec31.htm Quote Chick
cheddar Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I would never recommend calling the Holy Spirit an 'it'. There's one sin that we never want to commit and it involves the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a 'he' or a 'him'. To me an 'it' would be less than an animal. This is my personal opinion and I'm not digging up a bunch of verses to prove it. Maybe later when I have time. Quote
Gustave Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Gustave, Can you describe what you mean by "a Trinity"? I think there are many different views of what that word means. Here is a graphic that indicates the claims of the Roman Catholic community. It would appear from the information there given that the apostles did not know about "the Trinity." The only claims of the Roman Catholic Community that are authorized are at.... http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p1.htm#202 And of course those claims which are in accordance with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.... ....Independant Catholic Ministries may or may NOT be accurate in their affirmations. ....There is no such thing as "Sunday as the Sabbath" being instituted. Quote
Gustave Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I would never recommend calling the Holy Spirit an 'it'. There's one sin that we never want to commit and it involves the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a 'he' or a 'him'. To me an 'it' would be less than an animal. This is my personal opinion and I'm not digging up a bunch of verses to prove it. Maybe later when I have time. I would certainly agree with you cheddar - the Holy Spirit IS the 3rd Person of the Divine Trinity.... ...To Ellen White it was simply an "it" and when she used the personal pronoun "he". ...It was meant in the same way we refer to a ship as a "she". Ellen White said; "The Father & the Son ALONE are to be exalted". Ellen White said; "Christ was the ONLY being in the universe who could enter all the councils of God". Subsequent to the Trinity dust up within the denomination via Dr. Kellogg.... ...Ellen White's side was explicit that the Holy Spirit was simply the influence of God or Christ. ...And just like Christ could be called God while at the same time NOT BE GOD ( in the ultimate sense ). ...The Holy Spirit could be called a "he" or "him" w/out being a "personality" like God, Christ or Lucifer. Quote
Pastor_Chick Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 [...] I would certainly agree with you cheddar - the Holy Spirit IS the 3rd Person of the Divine Trinity.... ...To Ellen White it was simply an "it" and when she used the personal pronoun "he". ...It was meant in the same way we refer to a ship as a "she". Ellen White said; "The Father & the Son ALONE are to be exalted". Ellen White said; "Christ was the ONLY being in the universe who could enter all the councils of God". Subsequent to the Trinity dust up within the denomination via Dr. Kellogg.... ...Ellen White's side was explicit that the Holy Spirit was simply the influence of God or Christ. ...And just like Christ could be called God while at the same time NOT BE GOD ( in the ultimate sense ). ...The Holy Spirit could be called a "he" or "him" w/out being a "personality" like God, Christ or Lucifer. I like your scholarship, Gustave. So, my conclusion would be IF a person was going to follow the prophetess, Ellen G. White and her position on the Godhead, they would agree with Creation Seventh Day Adventists. Those who subscribe to the modern SDA Church version of the Trinity would agree with Rome and the "harlot daughters." Is that reasonable? Quote Chick
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I like your scholarship, Gustave. So, my conclusion would be IF a person was going to follow the prophetess, Ellen G. White and her position on the Godhead, they would agree with Creation Seventh Day Adventists. Those who subscribe to the modern SDA Church version of the Trinity would agree with Rome and the "harlot daughters." Is that reasonable? No pastorchick that is not reasonable. If we take that line of reasoning we could: Say that because the Roman Church believes in God, all the Protestant churches also believe in God, SDA believe in God, and the Creation SDA church believes in God then they all are in agreement with Rome the "harlot daughters". This Principle applies to every item in which any entity agrees with the Roman Catholic Church. Thus your reasoning is faulty 100%! A desperate try though! Quote
skyblue888 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Good point ClubV12. Well taken. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 So, my conclusion would be IF a person was going to follow the prophetess, Ellen G. White and her position on the Godhead, they would agree with Creation Seventh Day Adventists. Pastor Chick ____________ What? This could not be any further from the truth. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Israfel Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 Thank you all for your postings to this thread. We are there because we like the Word of God and are seeking to better understand it for our own salvation and for that of others. When I survey all the inputs so far I see a common thread and it is this: everyone wants to understand better what they believe in by expressing it. That is good. Yet, I would like you to back up your inputs with the source of authority for your beliefs (Bible, SOP or otherwise) for, The bible says: "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." 2 Co 13:1 And "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Tim 3:16 Thank you.:) Quote "He will give his angel charge over thee, to keep thee"
Stan Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Dealing with Catholics Quote: Avoid Unnecessary Barriers.--We should not, upon entering a place, build up unnecessary barriers between us and other denominations, especially the Catholics, so that they think we are their avowed enemies. We should not create a prejudice in their minds unnecessarily, by making a raid upon them. There are many among the Catholics who live up to the light they have far better than many who claim to believe present truth, and God will just as surely test and prove them as He has tested and proved us.-- Manuscript 14, 1887. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Â
Gustave Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Thank you all for your postings to this thread. We are there because we like the Word of God and are seeking to better understand it for our own salvation and for that of others. Quote
Gustave Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Stan, those were nice words you directed to all of us... ...Have no fear of my being "wounded" here at all. ...The reason Ellen suggested caution with dealing with Catholics. ...Is simply because she used so much Catholic Theology to build her Church. ...That she knew it would be better if SDA's directed their efforts at Prot's. Quote
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Dealing with Catholics Originally Posted By: EllenWhite Quote:Avoid Unnecessary Barriers.--We should not, upon entering a place, build up unnecessary barriers between us and other denominations, especially the Catholics, so that they think we are their avowed enemies. We should not create a prejudice in their minds unnecessarily, by making a raid upon them. There are many among the Catholics who live up to the light they have far better than many who claim to believe present truth, and God will just as surely test and prove them as He has tested and proved us.-- Manuscript 14, 1887. That is a powerful quote Stan. My question then is given the above why the strong words concerning Roman Catholicism in the Great Controversy and the strong feelings produced by SDA leadership in evangelistic efforts, from the church pulpit, and from the SDA Educational system? Quote
Pastor_Chick Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Israfel, I want to offer the following link of inspired commentary in an essay that deals with this subject: http://www.csda-adventistchurch.to/Binary/essays/etrinity.html Quote Chick
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Pastorchick's assertion that he is "inspired" directly from God and is on a par with Ellen White means that we are to accept without questining: 1. His direct assertions on any subject as authoritative fact! In this case that the Godhead is two persons and the Holy Spirit is not a person. 2. Any sources he uses to bolster his assertions also becomes authoritative. Pastorchick then twists everything to demonstrate that the CSDA is the only TRUE CHURCH and that SDA and the Roman Catholic Church have forged an alliance by using the civil powers to do their bidding which is to smash all opposition to SDA and Roman Catholicism. For pastorchick everything revolves around this "victim" status in order to demonstrate legitimacy. He and his flock believe they have attained full purity of character (no sin in them)and as such the rest of us cannot stand to live in their presence so we are forced to persecute them. pastorchick has already admitted these things on this very website. Quote
Pastor_Chick Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 miz, Thank you for all the publicity. Some of what you say is even true. Too bad you did not read the essay. Quote Chick
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 All of what I said about you is True! Thank you for admitting again for all to see. Quote
Pastor_Chick Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev. 21:8) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (Exo. 20:16) When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise. (Prov. 10:19) Quote Chick
Gustave Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 want to offer the following link of inspired commentary in an essay that deals with this subject: http://www.csda-adventistchurch.to/Binary/essays/etrinity.html Quote
Pastor_Chick Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 So, Gustave, Thank you once again for your "scholarship" and candid comments. Would I be correct in concluding you are Roman Catholic? Quote Chick
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Pastorchick claims that this warmed over Arianism is actually a direct communication from God. Quote
Gustave Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Pastorchick claims that this warmed over Arianism is actually a direct communication from God. "God of this world", that's very possible..... ...Pastor Chick is in-between a rock and a hard place. Any honest Seventh-day Adventist who's spent even a little study into the issue of the Trinity... ...Will quickly determine that Chick is accurate in that Ellen rejected in total what the SDA Church today. ...Claims is "fundamental belief". ...Pastor Chick has hit the nail on the head with this and within 3 -5 more years general membership within SDA. ...Will all know it. The issue I have is SDA belief that "Doctrine Mutates".... ...An alien and evil concept NOT found in Scripture. ...Doctrines DEVELOP, they do not MUTATE! Quote
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