The shaking in Adventism

[ClubV12]

"You must keep the Spirit of the law."

That is the very essence of righteouness by faith. Nothing I've learned to date exceeds the wonderful peace that message brings. When it's accepted, dwelt on, breathed on through out the day, you can't help but want to tell others of it. You can't help but acquire a spirit of loving the law, because it is His character.

My goal, is to live the life of Christ and I believe He will finish the work He has started. The wonderful thing about accepting His righteousness along the way is that no matter where I'm at in that walk, He loves me and accepts me right where I'm at. Warts and all.

[Sonny]

My goal, is to live the life of Christ and I believe He will finish the work He has started.

Fine, but what saves is what Christ did 2000 years ago. It's called the truth as it is in Christ. You can't add to that. That's what the Sabbath points to under the NC.

[Sonny]

"The wonderful thing about accepting His righteousness along the way is that no matter where I'm at in that walk, He loves me and accepts me right where I'm at. Warts and all.

True....In fact He loved you when you hated Him. Look at the cross:

As He hung on the cross experiencing God’s curse for our sins, Jesus had to make a choice. He could not save Himself and the world at the same time. And He did make the supreme choice. He chose to die eternally that you and I may live in His place. That is what transformed the disciples. They were so shocked! They had not understood such love before as this. It is this concept of agape that turned the world upsidedown, that God not only came down for thirty-three years, but Jesus their Savior was willing to say good-bye to life forever that they may live in His place. “But God demonstrated His love that while we were still sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

In other words, the supreme sacrifice is that Jesus was willing to accept our curse and give us His life in exchange. It was not a question of saving Himself and the world. He could not do that. He had to make a choice between the world and Himself. Do you know what Christ was saying on the cross? I hope you will never forget this; He was saying that He loves us more than Himself. That is God’s agape. When you realize that is how much God loves you, can you be the same again? We talk of giving a little money for the needs of others. But God emptied heaven for us! How can we hold back? Look at the early Christian Church. They did not hold on to anything, land or houses. They gave it all to the body of Christ, the church. That is what will happen in this church when we see Christ crucified, as the early Christians saw it; and then we won’t need any more promotional programs. I get tired of promotional programs. I am sorry that we have to do it because if we don’t promote nothing gets done. It is terrible that we have to keep on this egocentric approach for raising funds. Why can’t the love of God constrain us? In 2 Cor. 5:14, Paul says what the cross did to him and to the Christian church and what it should do to us. When we reach this condition; when the church manitests the love of Christ because of what the cross means to them, then our 20th Century world will be turned upside down, too. [JS]

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

My goal, is to live the life of Christ and I believe He will finish the work He has started.

Fine, but what saves is what Christ did 2000 years ago. It's called the truth as it is in Christ. You can't add to that. That's what the Sabbath points to under the NC.

What is also saving is what the Holy Spirit is doing within you today...

[Gerr]

If we are to enter heaven by law we must live His life. If not, we need the assurance of salvation through an understanding of the love of God as seen in the gospel of Christ. We need to understand God's agape love. That's the only way to really bear fruit.

And understanding God's agape love will bear what kind of fruit again?

Quote:

I hear more about the law then I do Christ and His righteousness. That's not good.

And I hear so much about Christ's righteousness also without the corresponding fruit of righteousness, and that's NOT good either!

[karl]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

Fine, but what saves is what Christ did 2000 years ago. It's called the truth as it is in Christ. You can't add to that. That's what the Sabbath points to under the NC.

What is also saving is what the Holy Spirit is doing within you today...

Amen, Gail. Today.

2 Corinthians 6:2

(For he saith , I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold , now is the accepted time; behold , now is the day of salvation.)

Hebrews 3:15

While it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Hebrews 4:7

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

My goal, is to live the life of Christ and I believe He will finish the work He has started.

Fine, but what saves is what Christ did 2000 years ago. It's called the truth as it is in Christ. You can't add to that. That's what the Sabbath points to under the NC.

Unless Christ through His Spirit is working in you TODAY what He did 2000 yrs ago, you have no more hope than Lucifer!

[Gerr]

But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him and yet are disloyal to His Father's commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easy-going, accommodating, crossless religion. {FW 50.1}

[Gail]

I love meditating on Romans 5:10 and the "much more" clause:

Quote:

For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

If His death covers us and justifies us, what did His life do for our salvation, much more so than His death?

Not only did He provide an example for us, but I believe that when you walk by faith, with the Spirit abiding in you, that the Spirit will conform you to the walk Christ walked.

More and more I am believing that every aspect of Jesus' life and death pertains to His reclaiming His own and His restoration of them.

[Gail]

But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him and yet are disloyal to His Father's commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easy-going, accommodating, crossless religion. {FW 50.1}

As I mentioned, I have heard and considered this in regard to the Laodicean condition.

Not only would they be deceiving themselves but I suspect they would also be belittling God's power to redeem us from sin, His restorative power, as well.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him and yet are disloyal to His Father's commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easy-going, accommodating, crossless religion. {FW 50.1}

As I mentioned, I have heard and considered this in regard to the Laodicean condition.

Not only would they be deceiving themselves but I suspect they would also be belittling God's power to redeem us from sin, His restorative power, as well.

Or perhaps they would be claiming that God already redeemed everyone and there is no more work to be done.

[Sonny]

What is also saving is what the Holy Spirit is doing within you today...

No! What the Spirit does in us does not add to God's perfect & complete redemption "in Christ Jesus". Yes, you can experience agape, but it cannot add to what Christ did by His birth, life, death & resurrection.

[Sonny]

And I hear so much about Christ's righteousness also without the corresponding fruit of righteousness, and that's NOT good either!

Paul says that as “touching the righteousness which is in the law”—as far as outward acts were concerned --he was “blameless” (Philippians 3:6); but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by the letter of the law as men apply it to the outward life, he had abstained from sin; but when he looked into the depths of its holy precepts, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation and confessed his guilt. [sC 29]

[Sonny]

Unless Christ through His Spirit is working in you TODAY what He did 2000 yrs ago, you have no more hope than Lucifer!

Christ didn't come to save Lucifer. He came to save the human race. Because of the cross all men owe their very existence:

"To the death of Christ we owe even this earthly life....The cross of Calvary is stamped on every loaf. It is reflected in every water spring." [DA]

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man's offense [Adam's] judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act [Christ's doing & dying] the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

[Sonny]

Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easy-going, accommodating, crossless religion. {FW 50.1}

Gerry, are you living Christ's life? If not you are living an easy-going, accommodating, crossless religion! Christ denied Himself. He didn't live for Himself...He didn't plan for Himself...He lived for others, thus denying self-interests. He was "the servant of all"!

Can you stand before God's law and make the same claim? I can't!

[Sonny]

If His death covers us and justifies us, what did His life do for our salvation, much more so than His death?

His death is your death. Your humanity died in Christ 2000 years ago. In Him you died the 2nd death. In Him the justice of the law is satisfied.

During His life Christ continually said "no" to our bent-to-self. He never sinned even by a thought. Since you were adopted into Christ at the incarnation His victory over the flesh is acceptable to the law. Hence in Christ your humanity was made obedient. Hence in Him the law is once again satisfied.

[Gail]

Satisfied- or can his obedience (righteousness) become ours in practise as well as in faith?

Just stirring up the pot...

[Gerr]

Can you stand before God's law and make the same claim? I can't!

Neither can I, that's why I need Jesus. But let me ask you again: And understanding God's agape love will bear what kind of fruit again?

[ClubV12]

"...understanding God's agape love will bear what kind of fruit again?"

Wait, wait (waves hand frantically from the back row), I KNOW this one, call on me!!!

...but OK, (puts hand down), I'll let Sonny answer it. :)

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gail

What is also saving is what the Holy Spirit is doing within you today...

No! What the Spirit does in us does not add to God's perfect & complete redemption "in Christ Jesus". Yes, you can experience agape, but it cannot add to what Christ did by His birth, life, death & resurrection.

And what does it mean to experience agape? Do you love God more or less? Love your neighbor more or less?

You keep putting the cart before the horse, the result for the means. What the Holy Spirit does in the believer in no way adds to what Jesus did at the Cross. He is only applying to the believer what Jesus did. You keep reviving the same 1/2 gospel that you have been trying to palm off for however many years we have been discussing this in the forum.

ESV | Ro 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

NCV - Ro 8:29  God knew them before he made the world, and he chose them to be like his Son so that Jesus would be the firstborn  of many brothers and sisters. 30 God planned for them to be like his Son; and those he planned to be like his Son, he also called; and those he called, he also made right with him; and those he made right, he also glorified.

NLT - Ro 8:29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn* among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.

"... the glory--the character--of God is revealed in His chosen ones." CC ch 354

[Sonny]

Satisfied- or can his obedience (righteousness) become ours in practise as well as in faith?

Just stirring up the pot...

Rom 3:21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Torah and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

The righteousness that saves comes from God, apart from our law keeping. Why? Because the best of us have sinned and continue to fall short of God's love revealed in the life of Christ.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

Can you stand before God's law and make the same claim? I can't!

Neither can I, that's why I need Jesus. But let me ask you again: And understanding God's agape love will bear what kind of fruit again?

Fruit that's in harmony with the law, but not a fulfillment of the law. Christ fulfilled the law, we can reflect that love as we learn to walk in the Spirit.

[Gerr]

[Sonny]

1. What does it mean to be "in harmony with the law?"

In harmony means in agreement. If I don't hate you and my motive is right that act is in harmony with the law.

"The law of Jehovah is exceedingly broad. Jesus plainly declared to His disciples that this holy law of God may be violated in even the thoughts and feelings and desires, as well as in the word and deed." [EGW]