How do you keep kosher?some help plz

[Dr. Rich]

Why worry about kosher products??? All you have to do is follow the Biblical standards of what is clean or unclean and then eat the meat"WITHOUT THE BLOOD"... I do not know a single Adventist that follows this latter requirement. Nuff Sed....

LOL. This means not to eat the meat with the blood from the animal too, as many pagans did. Meat that has been cleaned proper has been drained of the pooled blood. Of course you knew that already didn't you 'nuff'?

[John317]

"...there are thousands of SDAs who don't eat any meat and have never even tasted a bite of it in all their lives."

Wow, I never realized that!

My first thought was, are they OK? Are they actually healthy? Is that a good thing? It's just a new concept to me is all, it's still sinking in.

Sure, they're very healthy. My own parents lived very healthy, active lives into their 90s, and neither of them ate any meat after they were about 6 yrs old. As I was grewing up in Loma Linda-- during the late 50s to the 1980s-- it was actually rare to meet SDAs who ate meat.

Have you looked at the Health study that was done about SDAs and their diet? (It followed the diet of SDAs and their health for about 30 years.) It shows that people who never eat meat live on average of 7 years longer than meat-eaters. It shows that even small amounts of meat eaten regularly results in a greater chance of having cancer and shortens the life.

One vegetarian lady in Loma Linda, a Mrs. Hulda Crooks (sp?), became the oldest person to climb Mt. Fuji in Japan and Mt. Whitney in California. I believe she was in her 80s when she did it. At 80, she was more active and healthier than many people in their 40s who eat meat.

[nuff sed]

LOL. This means not to eat the meat with the blood from the animal too, as many pagans did. Meat that has been cleaned proper has been drained of the pooled blood. Of course you knew that already didn't you 'nuff'?

Of course I did... You will note that that the so called 'Jewish meats' are all highly spiced because having been drained of the blood..they taste like cardboard............ I am sorry but..IM(highly vaulted and esteemed)O, Seventh-day Adventists in most modernized countries do not have a leg to stand on for continuing to eat flesh foods... I truly believe that this attitude Must Change. I will 'give a pass' to those more primitive areas where it would be very difficult to cultivate their own food. If we can't accept "NOW" 'clear counsel' as to the effects on both our physical and spiritual bodies how are we going to face the trials ahead when it might amount to 'life or death"??...I am just curious.......... Yes, I am a Vegetarian, no, that fact will not 'save'me............Nuff sed........

[Gordon1]

A pointed booklet on this topic was S.A. Nagel's Anti-Meat Special from decades back. I believe he was the GC Medical Officer of the day, or similar title. Accrding to him, most of the GC staff loved their flesh foods and gave him a hard time for his veggie witness.

Since the SOP puts such emphasis on this matter (esp. in regards to church officers), there must be significant spiritual danger associated with flesh consumption - even though we can can 'justify' it as a personal choice unrelated to our connection with Christ.

[phkrause]

A pointed booklet on this topic was S.A. Nagel's Anti-Meat Special from decades back. I believe he was the GC Medical Officer of the day, or similar title. Accrding to him, most of the GC staff loved their flesh foods and gave him a hard time for his veggie witness.

Since the SOP puts such emphasis on this matter (esp. in regards to church officers), there must be significant spiritual danger associated with flesh consumption - even though we can can 'justify' it as a personal choice unrelated to our connection with Christ.

Good points Gordon. As Nuff Sed has mentioned if we really get rid of all the blood the meat tastes really awful. The Jews use kosher salt, which is a really course salt, it draws all the blood out of the meat. Than they have to spice and pickle the meat to make it tasty. I've had some awesome Jewish kosher prepared food.

[nuff sed]

Yeah, I am still trying to make Vegemess taste like London Broil or Pastrami...because it "tastes good".....if I remember rightly. The last piece of meat I ate knowingly was a Filet Mignon on Japan Airlines between Honolulu and Tokyo im 1963.. I remember well unwrapping the bacon from around it before I "dug in"...........<gg> Nuff sed

[shelly]

I choose not to believe it.............IMO Seventh-day Adventists have no need to keep Kosher-style kitchen. They DO need, however, to stop eating meat if they wish to be translated (No, that is not in the Bible-- for you 'Bible and Bible only' nitpickers)................. 'Nuff sed....

It is this type of thinking and statement that causes a division between meat and non-meat eaters in the church. Implying that someone won't be translated because of what they eat is highly inflammatory. And we wonder why we can't come together as a church!

[ClubV12]

From what I've seen it's not an implication, it's a fact...

Yeah, the truth tends to divide people.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

...there must be significant spiritual danger associated with flesh consumption...

Originally Posted By: 'Nuff sed

Seventh-day Adventists ... DO need, however, to stop eating meat if they wish to be translated...

YEAH!!! Let's eat lots of gooey cheese, starches, fructose, and LOTS and LOTS of water!!!!

**looks around....Reese's peanut butter cups, Ginger Snaps, Triscuits, jelly beans, Doritos, and ...erhmm..sugar free coffee**

I'm safe....no meat...

[Dr. Rich]

This would explain why the 144k become sealed by Jesus prior to the time of trouble. They are the ones who are hungry for the MEAT in due season as found in Matt. 24:45. Milk and veggies are not good enough for them, as the real truth is something you can sink your teath into!

Come on folks, if you want to pick a side, pick one with it's leader who was also a meat eater, Jesus Christ!

[shelly]

ClubV12, people tend to see what they want to see. People see that the commandments are nailed to the cross, that we no longer have to keep the Sabbath, and some people try to make our understanding of the meat free health message into a truth even though it is non-biblical-even though the bible is supposed to be the guide to Chrisitan living.

[shelly]

Don't you know that we are suppose to ignore that Jesus was a meat eater or use special interpretations to make the bible fit what we want to be the "truth" today. The fish wasn't fish and he completely ignored the Jewish traditions of Passover opting to forgo lamb and eat veggilinks?

[phkrause]

I think the difference between meat in the time of Christ and today is quite large. They didn't have the pollution in the oceans that we do, and the cattle pollution has been in the news for years. I don't believe that eating meat is the problem as much as how bad meat has become in these last 20, 30, 40, 50 years.

[Gordon1]

It's doubtful Christ was a big flesh eater, perhaps not much into fish either.

Eating the passover lamb was a ceremonial ritual observed with much contemplation, even remorse at slaying a young and innocent 'member of the family'. Just as it was meant to be in foreshadowing Christ's own sacrifice.

The Passover, once a year, an isolated & sacred event.

[Gordon1]

From what I've seen it's not an implication, it's a fact...

Yeah, the truth tends to divide people.

"I came not to bring peace, but a sword."

[shelly]

I think the difference between meat in the time of Christ and today is quite large. They didn't have the pollution in the oceans that we do, and the cattle pollution has been in the news for years. I don't believe that eating meat is the problem as much as how bad meat has become in these last 20, 30, 40, 50 years. [/quote

I agree. I think that meat (non-organic, not free-range) is alot more unhealthy today than it was in the time of Christ. I also thing the standard American diet has too much meat and too few veggies and fruits. But what I was making reference to was ClubV12 making meat eating a spiritual issue. I also believe that veggie "meats" are more unhealthy than the real thing. With the addition of genetically engineered fruits and veggies (the kind you get at the local grocery store) food as a whole is alot less healthy today than in the time of Christ. After taking enough biology classes and learning how most veggies and fruits have been genetically engineered and then sprayed with pesticides I now believe that they are not nearly as healthy today as they were 50 yrs ago. That is why I pray over my food!

[shelly]

Very few individuals in biblical times ate alot of meat-it was for special occassions. Chirst ate fish several times in the gospels and even after his resurrection. You either eat meat or you don't. Low frequency meat eating does not make you a vegetarian. Christ ate meat while he was on earth. We can argue the health benifits of not eating meat and I have no issue with that. True vegetarians (those who eat mostly fruits and vegetables without meat) live very healthy lives. The question of spirituality being related to meat eating is a sticky and divisive assertion. Eating meat is a personal choice that God alloweda and anyone who says different is placing the beliefs of man over the word of God.

[John317]

I'm not a vegetarian. Neither is my wife and two of my daughters. I've cut back on meat for health reasons, because the doctors have told me I can't eat fat or red meat. So while I liked it, I now rarely eat it. I've been forced by health issues to basically practice the health message. I wish I had started practicing when I was in my twenties. But I was so healthy then that I didn't think I needed to pay attention to it. I thought the health message was for everyone else.

What do we do with the message that God sent to us through Ellen G. White? We know that she said over and over again that God wants Seventh-day Adventists who are preparing for Christ's return to get back to God's original, meatless diet, and to practice other parts of health reform. Why do we as a church and a people seem to be ignoring or even rejecting this message? Personally I am coming more and more under the conviction that I should do it, and I am praying that my family will see the importance of doing it, too.

[Gordon1]

But what I was making reference to was ClubV12 making meat eating a spiritual issue.

This was EGW's counsel, who also warned that cheese is wholly unfit as food. Even from the early chapters of Genesis, God distinguished between animals clean and unclean.

Paul's word: abstain from blood.

And we've been advised to raise our own food. The prophet took her biology lessons from the Source of life Himself.

[Dr. Rich]

Don't you know that we are suppose to ignore that Jesus was a meat eater or use special interpretations to make the bible fit what we want to be the "truth" today. The fish wasn't fish and he completely ignored the Jewish traditions of Passover opting to forgo lamb and eat veggilinks?

LOL, don'tcha just love it?

[shelly]

I'm not a vegetarian. Neither is my wife and two of my daughters. I've cut back on meat for health reasons, because the doctors have told me I can't eat fat or red meat. So while I liked it, I now rarely eat it. I've been forced by health issues to basically practice the health message. I wish I had started practicing when I was in my twenties. But I was so healthy then that I didn't think I needed to pay attention to it. I thought the health message was for everyone else.

What do we do with the message that God sent to us through Ellen G. White? We know that she said over and over again that God wants Seventh-day Adventists who are preparing for Christ's return to get back to God's original, meatless diet, and to practice other parts of health reform. Why do we as a church and a people seem to be ignoring or even rejecting this message? Personally I am coming more and more under the conviction that I should do it, and I am praying that my family will see the importance of doing it, too.

The question is whether you believe that EGW gave us a new light that superceeds what the bible says. I don't believe that EGW was given any new light to add to the bible, simply explain it. Abstaining from clean meats is no where in the bible and only found in the writings of EGW. For me, she cannot create a new doctrine that is in opposition to what God taught.

[shelly]

Originally Posted By: shelly

But what I was making reference to was ClubV12 making meat eating a spiritual issue.

This was EGW's counsel, who also warned that cheese is wholly unfit as food. Even from the early chapters of Genesis, God distinguished between animals clean and unclean.

Paul's word: abstain from blood.

And we've been advised to raise our own food. The prophet took her biology lessons from the Source of life Himself.

So SOP superceeds the bible. Good to finially hear a SDA admit that. This stance is what the whole issue in the church regarding our prophet is about. There are those who see her word as equal to and superceeding the bible and there are those who place her works below the word of God. I have determined to run as far away from her writtings and councils as possible. Not because I don't believe that she is God's serveant, because I do, but because of the EGW worship that takes place in our church. Anytime you counter the bible with SOP, in my opinion, you are doing a disservice to EGW.

[Gordon1]

Abstaining from clean meats is no where in the bible and only found in the writings of EGW. For me, she cannot create a new doctrine that is in opposition to what God taught.

It's possible EGW was merely an expositor of Scripture.

However, there was no direction to eat flesh before the fall of man. Such would have been repulsive to Adam & Eve. They were not naturally murderous as we are today.

God originally taught:

" Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." Genesis 1:29.

Not a new doctrine.

[ClubV12]

"Paul's word: abstain from blood...", and things strangled and offered to idols.

I see a nice balance in what Paul said that is in harmony with Ellen Whites counsel. We should move carefully when considering health reform. Some are able to move faster than others but the goal remains the same for all of us.

What is "new light"? For the most part it's old light with new understanding. That I see as the primary focus of Sister White's work. The laws of Moses expounded on the laws of the ten commandments in a way the people could understand. It was specific examples of how to apply the ten commandments in daily life and it was also "health reform"! The Lord has offered us the same kind of counsel for our day, specific examples of how to apply the ten commandments in our time, and health reform.

Thats how I see Sister Whites counsel, FIRST, it originates from the Lord, by rejecting her counsel your really rejecting the Lords counsel. These are not some legalistic rituals we have to apply to our life, they are designed to increase our life. To sharpen our minds and our spiritual understanding. To increase our physical and mental strength to overcome and identify "sin" in our life. To live in a more productive way.

While I still eat meat, like John317, I'm moving toward a more healthy diet in all regards. Not because it's the "law", but I because I believe it will result in a closer connection with Him, a greater understanding of Him. A stronger "will" to live like Him. This is good stuff, I'm thankful the Lord has provided this sound advice and counsel to us.

[shelly]

Christ ate meat after his translation and after seeing the Father. If eating meat was truely a spiritual issue he would have not taken and eaten the fish and honey. According to EGW this would be a problem. That is why I call it new doctrine. I have no issue with the health benifits of not eating meat. I also do not like the idea of killing animals for consumption and think that one day I will abstain from meat because of this. However, I will not add to the bible and pretend doing so will put me on a higher spiritual plane. Before the flood man didn't eat meat-and that did not seem to help them spiritually at all!