Moderators John317 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 8, 2011 Yep, I agree that the one who wrote this about his idea of love, had on dark rose colored glasses ... Are you talking about 1 Cor. 13, the love chapter? Do you disagree with it? If so, why? What does that chapter say that you believe disagrees with Jesus' words? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: cheddar The spirit of the old covenant is alive and well. How about we throw all these good works away and learn to walk by faith. And walking by faith is? Not doing any of those things? Good point, Gerry. If we really have faith in Christ and love Him, won't we be glad to do the things that Delia wrote about in the first post of this discussion? Aren't they all in harmony with the commandment to love our neighbor as we love ourselves and to do unto others as we want them to do to us? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
cheddar Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: cheddar Having said that, you have to admit that many, many people are led into legalism by following her too strictly... The same might just as well be said of the Bible. I wouldn't say it's because of following her too strictly, though. People are led into legalism by following the old covenant and trying to keep the commandments not by following the new covenant and believing the good news of the gospel. Ellen White didn't help matters any by always preaching the Sabbath from the 4th commandment - which put everyone back 'under the Law' like good little Jew wannabes. E.J. Waggoner never did this - he always preached a new covenant Sabbath, showing that the Sabbath is the sign or seal of Righteousness by faith, and the rest of the Sabbath is learning to believe in Jesus Christ. In the last days there will be a group of people who reflect Christ's character fully and keep all the commandments, but they won't be doing it by trying - They will be doing it by believing. Here's how Ellen White saw this verse 'here are they that keep the commandments of God , and the faith of Jesus.' Here's how E.J. Waggoner saw it 'here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus .' Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 10, 2011 How did Jesus keep His Father's commandments in the Garden and in the Wilderness? Didn't it require a struggle and determination to be loyal to God? Do you think it's legalism when a person is tempted to do wrong but he prays for strength to obey God? In the last days the people who are faithful to God will have to decide whether they will obey God even though they might be killed for it. They won't obey unless they have developed the character that is accustomed to obeying God now. If they don't, why would they suddenly obey God at that time? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 10, 2011 Here's how Ellen White saw this verse 'here are they that keep the commandments of God , and the faith of Jesus.' Here's how E.J. Waggoner saw it 'here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus .' Actually, if you read E.J. Waggoner and A.T. Jones and Ellen White on this topic, you will see that they don't really disagree at all. Remember, too, that Ellen White was a prophet of God. So if we were to decide to jettison either of these three people, it would have to be Waggoner and Jones. God sent a precious message through them, but they were not prophets and they did get some things wrong. Ellen White sometimes had to correct them, as you probably know. But we are going rather far afield from the topic of this thread. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
cheddar Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 The struggles and battles we fight are to maintain our faith and belief in Jesus and his righteousness. Satan is always tempting us to look at ourselves and our performance. When we take our eyes off Jesus we become easy prey for his temptations. Peter fell into the water because he took his eyes off Jesus. Faith isn't something that happens overnight - it takes time to build, so we need to start now. True obedience comes from faith. Quote
cheddar Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: cheddar Here's how Ellen White saw this verse 'here are they that keep the commandments of God , and the faith of Jesus.' Here's how E.J. Waggoner saw it 'here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus .' Actually, if you read E.J. Waggoner and A.T. Jones and Ellen White on this topic, you will see that they don't really disagree at all. Remember, too, that Ellen White was a prophet of God. So if we were to decide to jettison either of these three people, it would have to be Waggoner and Jones. God sent a precious message through them, but they were not prophets and they did get some things wrong. Ellen White sometimes had to correct them, as you probably know. But we are going rather far afield from the topic of this thread. I think you have already jettisoned Jones and Waggoner along with most Adventists. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 10, 2011 I agree with you. But I don't believe Ellen White is saying anything different from that. She is not suggesting that we can earn merit with God by our obedience. She says that true obedience springs from faith, just as Paul taught. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 10, 2011 I think you have already jettisoned Jones and Waggoner along with most Adventists. Friend, you need to keep away from talking about things you know nothing about. I read Jones and Waggoner all the time and have most of their writings. You have no reason to say what you did. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
cheddar Posted July 10, 2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: cheddar I think you have already jettisoned Jones and Waggoner along with most Adventists. Friend, you need to keep away from talking about things you know nothing about. I read Jones and Waggoner all the time and have most of their writings. You have no reason to say what you did. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers John...you're right we have gotten off topic. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 10, 2011 You brought up some interesting points, though, and if you would like to discuss those things in greater depth, you could make a discussion devoted to them. In fact, I myself am interested in the question of the differences between Jones & Waggoner and Ellen White in their teaching of righteousness by faith. (As for the remark, it would be better to ask sometone if they have jettisoned Jones and Waggoner rather than conclude on the basis of a few sentences that someone has already done it.) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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