The demise of AUC

[abelisle]

Things aren't looking good for my alma mater - Atlantic Union College. As my wife said, "Why isn't the GC doing something about this. They spent millions in Atlanta, why nothing for AUC?"

http://www.telegram.com/article/20110722/NEWS/110729874/1116

Alex

[fccool]

I don't think it's a mere problem with Adventist Education system. The problem is widespread. American college is one of the most inefficient, and overpriced institutions you can find. The students end up having a "mortgage" before they even get a job.

I think what's even worse, is that we as a church support that type of habit as a "valid investment in the future". We should be telling our kids to run away as fast as they can, and get proper apprenticeships, with valuable work experience that would be valued more in this coming economy.

If we are to support any kind of eduction, it should be a debt-free one.

[Jeannieb43]

Things aren't looking good for my alma mater - Atlantic Union College. As my wife said, "Why isn't the GC doing something about this. They spent millions in Atlanta, why nothing for AUC?"

Alex

Oh, but the GC has done something about it. The GC plowed millions of dollars into AUC. The college has been nearly dying for several years, but the Boston area constituency just wouldn't let it die. Trouble is, those who demonstrated the most to keep it open also had the fewest resources economically, so they shouted for "their" college but didn't have the money to support it.

Unfortunately, another one or two of our SDA colleges might have to close in order for our GC Education system to survive. The "olden days" are long gone when young people had to travel by horse and buggy to the local college; nowadays there are relatively inexpensive flights to any part of the U.S. and the students can pick the college of their choice regardless of geographic proximity. We don't NEED so many institutions of higher learning. We need, rather, to support the strongest ones and keep them thriving so our students can compete in the real world, by obtaining strong degrees which will stand them in good stead in their careers.

I loved that old AUC campus. As a teenager I used to travel there with my parents to visit my aunt who lived in a little house adjacent to the AUC campus. It's a historic college. My great uncle Frederick Griggs was once president of that college. It's a shame to lose it, but time goes on. We have a heavenly home to look forward to, and that's what keeps me inspired.

[nuff sed]

If the constituency of the Atlantic Union was not willing/or able to keep AUC afloat why should the Columbia Union do so?

AUC should have been closed twenty years ago but for reasons of "political correctness/incorrectness" was not. Nuff sed

[Dr. Shane]

American college is one of the most inefficient, and overpriced institutions you can find. The students end up having a "mortgage" before they even get a job.

[Gerr]

So how can you make it more efficient?

I think the blueprint given was to have schools where students would have opportunities for employment - a work/study program. It may take a student longer to complete his/her education, but would graduate nearly debt-free.

[fccool]

Gerry,

I think it's an excellent model, and it was called apprenticeship back in the days. You've learned as an apprentice under the master. It's quite different than an "intern". The "master" would take on an apprentice assuming a certain responsibility, yet understanding that he/she would train a valuable company worker.

The problem with today's corporate world is that it's rigged through college. The total amount of college debt now exceeds credit card debt .

I do believe that there's value in Gen Ed, but in terms of pragmatic future... is it really worth paying 10-20k a year for it, if you can get it dirt cheap at your local community college, or online?

When I hire people, I really don't care how much they know about geography. I do care about their previous work experience and what they can do the day they walk through my business door. That's the job market right now, that the degree without experience could very well land you a job at McDonalds.

The solution is dropping the "world standards" IMO. Who cares about accreditation? Use Online Learning for general ED. Set students up for apprenticeship with business owners in Churches.

We have a great community, and we should put it to use.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think we should be encouraging kids to get an Adventist education if they cannot afford it. I am referring to college not elementary or academy. We need to try to make elementary and academy affordable for parents and we should have industry for the kids to work at in the evening but most schools have gone away from that. But I digress.

For those that can afford it, I think attending an Adventist college is great. But it is not without problems. Many kids attending Adventist colleges meet and marry someone from another state and thus extended families are broken apart. No matter how one looks at it, that is not ideal. Ideally girl meets boy and both are from same geographical area. Her parents and his parents live within an hour's distance from each other. All the aunts, uncles and cousins live in the same general area. I am not sure that an Adventist college education is worth breaking that all up. Most certainly, if someone has to borrow more than $30K - $40K to get an undergraduate degree, they can't afford that school.

[Dr. Shane]

The total amount of college debt now exceeds credit card debt .

I have made a lot of mistakes so I am probably not the best cast study... but I owe more on my student loans than on my mortgage. I hope to pay off my mortgage next year and I still have seven years left on my student loans.

[fccool]

Shane, you are in a lot better shape than most students nowadays. I truly believe that most of them have no breath at ever paying these back, unless there's sudden inflation of currency, which will of course make it easier to do so.

[olger]

I don't think it's a mere problem with Adventist Education system. The problem is widespread. American college is one of the most inefficient, and overpriced institutions you can find. The students end up having a "mortgage" before they even get a job.

I think what's even worse, is that we as a church support that type of habit as a "valid investment in the future". We should be telling our kids to run away as fast as they can, and get proper apprenticeships, with valuable work experience that would be valued more in this coming economy.

If we are to support any kind of eduction, it should be a debt-free one.

Well said, Sir.

`oG

[olger]

There are many types of education, and some close more doors than they open.

[lazarus]

Shane, you are in a lot better shape than most students nowadays. I truly believe that most of them have no breath at ever paying these back, unless there's sudden inflation of currency, which will of course make it easier to do so.

A former member call me few weeks ago saying that she had 60,000 worth of debt as a 22 year old. She is having a hard time getting a good job. She was so upset at having to start her married life with such a burden.

We have set many up of our young people for failure.

[Overaged]

I don't think we should be encouraging kids to get an Adventist education if they cannot afford it.

What exactly is "an Adventist education?"

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: Shane

I don't think we should be encouraging kids to get an Adventist education if they cannot afford it.

What exactly is "an Adventist education?"

Education at an Adventist educational institution.

[Gerr]

If the constituency of the Atlantic Union was not willing/or able to keep AUC afloat why should the Columbia Union do so?

AUC should have been closed twenty years ago but for reasons of "political correctness/incorrectness" was not. Nuff sed

I was wondering about the same thing - what are the Atlantic Union constituents doing to keep the school going? And the alumni? Can't be using the GC to bail out every failing church enterprise.

[Dr. Shane]

We have set many up of our young people for failure.

With pastors like you understanding this, there is hope it will change.

State universities and community colleges are good options for many Adventist youth. Many young people have no desire to go to college. We should steer them to vocational schools to develop careers where they can be small business owners and thus not have Sabbath conflicts. The church needs to provide spiritual support for these students while they attend these schools. Such support can be in the form of small group activities in a member's home, Friday night vespers, Sabbath afternoon AY or an on-campus ministry.

[Overaged]

What exactly is "an Adventist education?"

Quote:

Education at an Adventist educational institution.

Are you sure?

[miz3]

If the constituency of the Atlantic Union was not willing/or able to keep AUC afloat why should the Columbia Union do so?

AUC should have been closed twenty years ago but for reasons of "political correctness/incorrectness" was not. Nuff sed

I agree!

Since the mid 1960's until now AUC has been a simmering pot of "counter culture", racial tension, political rebellion, anti-SDA culture, etc. etc.

AUC has fostered too many Godless philosophies and godless cultural diversities! They have been allowed to do this with the blessings from the Atlantic Union Conference and most of the Local Conference's blessings!

In addition there has been gross mismanagement of funds! Of course this mismanagement is typical of SDA because the "pastoral elite" or as they like to call themselves "the Lord's anointed" are in charge! This same "pastoral elite" are only interested in manipulating God's money to their own personal monetary advantage and to satisfy their own power lust! There is no one to make them accountable! To a large extent this is dew to the SDA "fake democracy" system of organization. There is much more to this then could be stated in this brief note!

In short God is not blessing the SDA Church at present and there will be more shoes to fall than AUC!

A couple of days ago I had an AUC alumnus call me with deep sorrow about their school. However, their investigation as a significant donor to AUC found out too late the nastiness that has been going on in regard to AUC too late! I quote this alum "my eyes were finally opened to the truth"! They were deeply troubled because they had been sold a "bill of bad goods"! They also realized that AUC corruption and godless culture is riddled throughout the SDA Church! Like I said this person was very discouraged and troubled about the affairs of what they thought had been "god's anointed"!

It is time for the pew sitters of Godly heart to wake up concerning the goings on in their SDA Church from top to bottom. If they do not wake up and act to correct this culture of evil there will more and more serious things than AUC!

[Overaged]

In addition there has been gross mismanagement of funds! Of course this mismanagement is typical of SDA because the "pastoral elite" or as they like to call themselves "the Lord's anointed" are in charge! This same "pastoral elite" are only interested in manipulating God's money to their own personal monetary advantage and to satisfy their own power lust! There is no one to make them accountable! To a large extent this is dew to the SDA "fake democracy" system of organization. There is much more to this then could be stated in this brief note!

In short God is not blessing the SDA Church at present and there will be more shoes to fall than AUC!

It is time for the pew sitters of Godly heart to wake up concerning the goings on in their SDA Church from top to bottom. If they do not wake up and act to correct this culture of evil there will more and more serious things than AUC!

This has got to be one of the most unrealistic posts I have read here in a long time. For starters, prove that God is not "blessing the SDA Church at present." And what on earth might you mean with your use of this word "bless?"

[John317]

If they can't afford the tuition at an SDA college or university, they can save money by taking all the classes they're able to at a Jr. College and then transfering them. Also, at a Jr. College, they can get a certificate in some trade so they can work their way through a university.

I was fortunate to study at colleges and universities in a time (70s & 80s) when it was still relatively inexpensive. Junior College in that time was absolutely free.

Why does it seem now like another world?

[John317]

God is certainly still blessing the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the people in it who love and serve God.

Of course God also blesses all Christians (irrespective of the church they belong to) who are sincerely seeking truth and obeying all the light they have. He is even at work blessing non-Christains by trying to bring them into the truth.

[miz3]

In addition there has been gross mismanagement of funds! Of course this mismanagement is typical of SDA because the "pastoral elite" or as they like to call themselves "the Lord's anointed" are in charge! This same "pastoral elite" are only interested in manipulating God's money to their own personal monetary advantage and to satisfy their own power lust! There is no one to make them accountable! To a large extent this is dew to the SDA "fake democracy" system of organization. There is much more to this then could be stated in this brief note!

In short God is not blessing the SDA Church at present and there will be more shoes to fall than AUC!

It is time for the pew sitters of Godly heart to wake up concerning the goings on in their SDA Church from top to bottom. If they do not wake up and act to correct this culture of evil there will more and more serious things than AUC!

[Tom Wetmore]

If they can't afford the tuition at an SDA college or university, they can save money by taking all the classes they're able to at a Jr. College and then transfering them. Also, at a Jr. College, they can get a certificate in some trade so they can work their way through a university.

I was fortunate to study at colleges and universities in a time (70s & 80s) when it was still relatively inexpensive. Junior College in that time was absolutely free.

Why does it seem now like another world?

Like you, I was also fortunate to have done college and university during the 70s & 80s when it was still possible to work your way through school with only minimal help from family and minimal borrowing. I worked full time my last two years of college while carrying a full class load to do it. But I was able to finish with only a minimum amount of debt that was easily handled even at a entry level job.

But the huge leap in the last 20 years in the cost of education, as with many major cost of living items, has far exceeded the earning potential of an unskilled student worker trying to work their way through school. (Base wage levels have simply not increased nearly at the same rate as the cost of living.) Expectations are that they also won't take a year or so off to just work to save up the money, so they borrow against their future.

[Overaged]

You don't know what is going on at AUC or what has gone on at AUC!