The demise of AUC

[ClubV12]

John317 says.

"He is even at work blessing non-Christains by trying to bring them into the truth."

That is SO true in my life. Looking back, especially the last few years, the evidence is profound how God was not only leading but opening up ways and means that I might free myself from the intanglements of a worldy life and come to Him.

I needed to get my financial house in order and had to make some tough economic decisions. I recall at some point the way things were working out it was giving me goose bumps. It was impossible to make a wrong financial decision, everything kept falling into place. I'm not THAT smart! I didn't even think of God then, but I sensed there was some power beyond my mere abilities. He was blessing me and I knew it not. All that I have He gave me, it is dedicated to His service now.

[phkrause]

OA and Miz I have to agree and disagree with both of you a little on this issue. I worked for the College Press at AUC from '73 to '81 or '82 when Ariel Schmidt & Red Graves bought it from AUC. Now I do agree with the fact that AUC had no clue as to how to run a business. They never put money back into there businesses to keep them doing well. The College Press actually did make some good money, but they would put the money into other parts of the school instead of using the money to keep the press up to date. As far as how we run our schools I have no idea, but it does look like we really don't know what we're doing. The problem that I saw at AUC seemed to be how many kids went to school there. When my brother was there they had over a thousand kids, maybe even 1500 kids, now they might have less than 500 kids, that's quite a difference. I definitely disagree with the fact that they are not a spiritual college. Sure there are always some that are not which brings down those that are, and the majority are very spiritual at AUC. I am disappointed that AUC was not able to get there credidation for this year. But what I do understand is that WAU and AUC are uniting and that next year they will be back. But when something closing down like this, its hard to see that being closed for a year and laying off all the people that they will be able to rehire and start up again.

[Jeannieb43]

If they can't afford the tuition at an SDA college or university, they can save money by taking all the classes they're able to at a Jr. College and then transferring them. Also, at a Jr. College, they can get a certificate in some trade so they can work their way through a university.

But beware of these "trade schools" and fly-by-night "colleges" which advertise on TV. They are usually just scams to get your student loan money. They don't provide quality education, and the "nurse" or "lab technician" or "auto mechanic" degree from those schools does not qualify the student to get a job in a first-rate institution. The problem is that students are so eager to take out student loans [and start believing this is so easy] that they don't realize after they finish their studies they will have thousands of dollars to repay. And those student loans are with you forever! They can never be discharged in bankruptcy -- every penny of the loan, plus interest, must be fully repaid. The student has been tricked into thinking he'll make big money afterward, which is rarely the case.

BEWARE OF INDEPENDENT TRADE SCHOOLS WHICH "ASSIST" THE STUDENT IN TAKING OUT GOVERNMENT STUDENT LOANS.

It's much better to save the money beforehand, then pay cash for junior college, where good credits are earned which can then qualify the student for a good job later, or even to transfer to a university.

[John317]

I agree. People have to be careful of those kinds of schools.

[olger]

Our children would be better served in learning a trade through apprenticeship, than they would be by taking on a "school mortgage" in my opinion.

`oG

[Overaged]

That was a great post Club V12 I can relate to your testimony

[Dr. Shane]

But beware of these "trade schools" and fly-by-night "colleges" which advertise on TV.

I would only encourage a student to attend a vocational school which is owned by a public owner like a state or school district. We have such schools here in Texas and I know Minnesota does too. Those schools to provide useful skills to students and tend to be very affordable.

[Overaged]

quote=Jeannieb43]But beware of these "trade schools" and fly-by-night "colleges" which advertise on TV. /quote]

I would only encourage a student to attend a vocational school which is owned by a public owner like a state or school district. We have such schools here in Texas and I know Minnesota does too. Those schools to provide useful skills to students and tend to be very affordable.

I think it's very unfair to class all schools advertising on TV as "fly by night." There are some really good ones out there, and i would encourage any student to judge each school by it's own merits. Public education sure is not the know all see all with trade schools.

We are very fortunate here in Canada to have an excellent Apprenticeship program; and this is what i would encourage any student to try for first. That way they can earn while they learn.

[phkrause]

We are very fortunate here in Canada to have an excellent Apprenticeship program; and this is what i would encourage any student to try for first. That way they can earn while they learn.

They have something like that in Germany, not sure about the rest of the countries in Europe. All my cousins picked something they wanted to be and got good jobs when they graduated.

[Bravus]

I partly agree: trades have definitely been ignored in comparison to university in Australia. There's more work to be done on promoting skilled trades as an excellent life outcome.

Having said that, there's a bit too much 'one size fits all' argument in this thread. For maybe 20%, maybe 30% of people, university is a great outcome.

It used to be in Australia that tertiary education was free (government funded), but it's got less and less so. Still, student debt is probably only $20,000 or so for a 3-4 year degree for most Australian students at public universities.

One of my daughters is at a private university, but has a 1/4 scholarship. She'll still end up with about $85,000 in student debt. It's worth it for her because that uni means she will complete her degree over a year sooner, with an excellent course, small courses and great network connections, and start on a salary of around $70,000 a year... so in fact she'll be better off than a student at a public university (like my other daughter).

Lots of answers for lots of students... but it is kinda hard to justify the scale of the current SDA system. It'd be nice to keep it, but it makes sense to be realistic.

Of course, there's a whole other issue: due to the most recent actions at LSU there is an excellent chance the university will lose its accreditation. The university will lose funding, the students will lose assistance. The university is likely to be less viable...

There are lots of issues.

[Kevin H]

I attended AUC from 77-82 (with a year away for taskforce). Our schools were expensive but affordable. AUC had some fantastic deticated teachers. Our classes were in these beautiful buildings, very homey, and history was perserved with markers for both church and other historical events that took place on campus (Did you know that the Christmas Hymn "It Came Upon the Midnight Clear" was written on what later became AUC?). Places like Andrews has been a pull down the old and put up these new cold institutional buildings. And when you read about historical events that occured at Andrews and ask where on campus it happened the reply is "Here someplace"

The faculty when I started were very deticated. R. Dale McCune was the pressident, Deal Riley the dean of students, they were very deticated, and felt that rules were guidelines but worked with the details of each case. Most of our faculty was fantastic. We had an outstanding theology department and at the Seminary the AUC graduates tended to know more about the Bible then the students from our other schools and were waved from some of the class requirements able to take a couple more electives. The English and Music Department, pretty much all the programs had some of the best talent in the church and in the field. Sadly instead of being replaced by those mentered by these professors, a chance came to the campus. New administrators came and a number of the younger teachers who were being mentored by the giants were asked to teach classes that was outside of their field. They would protest but were pushed into it then fired because that class was not taught up to the traditonal standard of that class. Things became rough on the seasoned professors as well. The school use to take advantage on the literary and cultural location in New England. They eventually became just a little microscosm that did not take advantage of where they were. And these were the things that I am aware of. I have also heard about the selling of the farm, and that they were not nurturing the industries, not taking advantage of opputunities presented to them, I understand that there has been a lot more, and appeals from the former faculty for the school (and the church) to pray for corporate repentance.

The phyiscal location of the school, the history, the historical beautiful buildings still has a lot of potential. God can either raise it up or if it's sold to someone who God can bless with an educational instution at that location (as long as they don't plow it under and replace the buildings with the cold institutional buildings)

[Kevin H]

Sadly Adventist schools have become too expensive.

[ClubV12]

I worked for an international company for many years. We would hire technicians from these private schools, like Devry, and they were an assett to the company.

BUT, we weren't looking for somebody with a "degree" or a piece of paper. You also had to have real world experience and be at the top of your class. Having just attended the school and getting that piece of paper didn't carry that much weight. Fact is, we sometimes hired people who didn't even HAVE a degree, but an outstanding resume of experience.

I know folks who go to school, any school, and just go through the motions. Get that paper work. That degree, from where ever, is no longer a gaurentee of anything. Having a PhD doesn't mean your qualified in the real world. The question is: Can this person actually produce? In the company I was with the techs were often by themselves. That means they had to be self motivated, driven, there was no one watching them all the time. They either produced results or were terminated.

[Jeannieb43]

DeVry is the exception to the rule. Some very good education comes out of DeVry.

[olger]

I don't know how it is in Australia, David, but in American high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We’ve elevated the importance of “higher education” to such a lofty perch, that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled “alternative.”

Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as “vocational consolation prizes,” best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And Obama talks about millions of “shovel ready” jobs for a society that doesn’t encourage people to pick up a shovel at all.

In a hundred different ways, we have slowly marginalized an entire category of critical professions, reshaping our expectations of a “good job” into something that no longer looks like work. This, I think, is the real problem. A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber – if you can find one – is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist.

At which point we’ll all be in need of both.

[james423]

Here in Tennessee vocational education is still alive although it is not as emphasized as it used to be. The local junior colleges seem to specialize in turning out craftsmen of one type or another. In Chattanooga, for example, the local community college has set up a special section to train workers for the high-tech machinery being used at the new Volkswagen assembly plant. Not far from Laurelbrook, one county still has a vocational high school.

Here at Laurelbrook we still try our best to train students in real-life vocational skills like construction, building repair, C.N.A. work, and agriculture. Can these students get jobs? Yes, they can if they put into practice the work skills we've tried to teach them.

Vocational education even gives them an advantage at times. One of our graduates some years ago told us that she had gone to Southern Adventist University and taken the nursing course. During one of the courses, the students had to learn to inject a person with whatever medicine they needed so they were practicing on oranges to get the idea. Our graduate said she thought it was rather funny since she had learned to give a shot during Laurelbrook's C.N.A. course.

At Southern Adventist University (about 50 miles away from where I sit), vocational training is not as prevalent as it used to be, but it is still there. Unfortunately, a lot of students come out of Southern owing a lot of money, and sometimes they find that the skills they've been taught don't always get them a job. But they have been trained to look for God's leading and to be practical - and that's the important thing.

Personally I came out of Southern in 1968 owing not a penny. But then I worked 20 hours a week and lived at home, and my dad was an executive of a small manufacturing company near the college and had at least some money to help.

I think some of these colleges are struggling because they have "lost their way". They've tried to be like all the other educational institutions around them and don't have the money or the resources to keep that type of program up.

It's a scenario repeated hundreds of times with "church-related" institutions all across the United States. When these institutions are allowed to go their own way, their staff believing what they want to believe, some institutions make it - and some don't.

Right now Laurelbrook has a lawsuit against it by the U.S. Department of Labor. DOL is saying that because Laurelbrook runs a nursing home and trains students in it Laurelbrook is a business and not a school. Two levels of federal courts have told them what they are saying is nonsense - and now they have until October 4 to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court to see if that court will back them up. Read the documents if you wish at www.laurelbrook.org.

That's where running a vocational training program can get you. But Mrs. White has stated that vocational training should be a part of the curriculum so Laurelbrook is sticking to it. A lot of our institutions don't really believe in Mrs. White and try to have as little as possible to do with her and her divinely-inspired ideas. They've lost their anchor and are perishing at sea because of their neglect.

I cannot speak specifically to the situation you are mentioning, but from what I keep hearing what I have said may be the reason AUC is perishing. Are we doing everything perfect here at Laurelbrook? By no means, but we - with God's help, we believe - are trying.

Just a few thoughts.