The Remnant Has Returned

[Truth Files]

The Lord is in the process of setting Israel in the land for the purpose of bringing a believing 1/3 of them under His covenant [Jeremiah 30; 31; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14]

This objective will be met during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel [not the church] which is still pending .... all 6 objectives listed will be met [Daniel 9:24; Romans 11:25-36]

Amos

9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

[Gerr]

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place."

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Da 9:24). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

"Behold, your house is forsaken. And I tell you, you will not see me until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’" 

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Lk 13:35). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

[Lysimachus]

God gave Israel 70 more weeks (490 years) to get their act together, and fulfill those requirements in Daniel 9:24. But they failed to do it. They instead rejected the Messiah. God said "I'm giving you 70 weeks to accomplish these things...to get your act together...". As we know, they crucified their Lord afresh, said "we have no king but Caesar", and stoned the last prophet sent to them--Stephen.

So the kingdom was taken from them and given to a nation bearing forth fruit. The house of Israel was left DESOLATE!

The national establishment of Israel is doomed as a political nation, but not for Jews on an individual basis who can still be grafted into the body of Christ, the Church. All who put their hopes in National Israel in the Middle East are turning their backs on the Temple of God and facing the East. And if they continue to do this, they will end up worshiping the sun. To look to Israel is to SYMPATHIZE with what the Sanhedrin did in putting Christ to open shame and crucifying Him afresh!

Scripture teaches:

"wrath is come upon them [National Israel] to the uttermost." (1 Thess 2:16)

[Gerr]

 “God has ordered four hundred ninety years for your people and your holy city for these reasons: to stop people from turning against God; to put an end to sin; to take away evil; to bring in goodness that continues forever; to bring about the vision and prophecy; and to appoint a most holy place.

The Everyday Bible : New Century Version. 2005 (Da 9:24). Nashville, TN.: Thomas Nelson, Inc.

“Seventy sets of seven time periods have been assigned for your people and your holy city. These time periods will serve to bring an end to rebellion, to stop sin, to forgive wrongs, to usher in everlasting righteousness, to put a seal on a prophet’s vision, and to anoint the Most Holy One.

GOD'S WORD Translation. 1995 (Da 9:24). Grand Rapids: Baker Publishing Group.

“Seven times seventy years is the length of time God has set for freeing your people and your holy city from sin and evil. Sin will be forgiven and eternal justice established, so that the vision and the prophecy will come true, and the holy Temple will be rededicated

American Bible Society. (1992). The Holy Bible : The Good news Translation (2nd ed.) (Da 9:24). New York: American Bible Society.

See, your house is left to you desolate. Mt 23:28 ESV

And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate. Mt 23:28 NLT

 Now your house will be left completely empty. NCV

And now you’re so desolate, nothing but a ghost town. MESSAGE

Your house will be abandoned, deserted. GWT

[Truth Files]

2300 evenings [ereb] and mornings [boger] = 1150 24 hour days [temple worship]; not 2300 years [Daniel 8:14; 8:26] [the Hebrew for word for “year” [yowm, or yamin] is not in the vision]

This biblical truth destroys your entire SDA theory based upon a bogus 2300 years and 1844

And your application of the “day for a year” manipulation to the 1260 [1260 +1260] day time lapse [2520 years] for the rule of the Papacy is also bogus; your forced historical start date is wrong and the RCC was not even in existence at the time

And Zechariah 14 alone refutes all of your ideas against a future returned remnant of Israel [not the church]; all of the events in this vision are still future and there is no room for allegorical interpretation or for inserting the SDA organization in the vision

You have been willingly deceived by the SDA teaching on these matters

[Lysimachus]

2300 evenings [ereb] and mornings [boger] = 1150 24 hour days [temple worship]; not 2300 years [Daniel 8:14; 8:26]

[John317]

2300 evenings [ereb] and mornings [boger] = 1150 24 hour days [temple worship]; not 2300 years [Daniel 8:14; 8:26] [the Hebrew for word for “year” [yowm, or yamin] is not in the vision]

There's nothing in the context or in the language to show that it is 1150 days. But even if we say it is 1150 literal days, there's nothing in history that shows a fulfillement. The 1150 days were thought of in order to make it fit Antiochus IV but it still doesn't help.

[Lysimachus]

It seems to be John317 that Truth Files has strayed from his traditional Dispensational colleagues and is attempting to put the "1150" in the future. This is always the classic copout solution once they discover it has been proven that these numbers do not align with their original paradigms. "If it doesn't fit, oh well, ok, it must be future!". What would they do without their "infamous gap"?

[Truth Files]

The 1150 days are future and will be part of the second 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel ..... nothing to do with Antiochus IV [Daniel 11:21-35]

Everything to do with the coming little horn [Daniel 8:91-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27 [the prince that shall come]; 11:36-45; 12:17] and the setting up of the abomination of desolation on the temple mount .... at the time appointed .... at the end of this present age [Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15-16]

It will take 110 days for the setting up to be completed .... then the balance of the 1150 days will run to the end of the 70th week

The additional 30 days added to the 1260 days in Daniel 12:11 will involve the Lord coming to destroy the little horn and his followers consumating at Armageddon [Ezekiel 39; Daniel 9:27; 11:45; Joel 2:20; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

The little horn will rule over Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount, beginning at the onset of the second 1260 days [42 months] [middle of the 70th week decreed] [Daniel 11:41; Revelation 11:2; 13:1-5]

[Gerr]

Just don't hold your breath waiting for Israel to play a major part in end-time prophetic events. Their 490 yr probation ended 2000 yrs ago when they crucified the Anointed One, and left their house desolate.

[Truth Files]

"Just don't hold your breath waiting for Israel to play a major part in end-time prophetic events. Their 490 yr probation ended 2000 yrs ago when they crucified the Anointed One, and left their house desolate."

>Did you know that Jesus Christ disagrees with you on this issue?

>Are you one who says they are a Jew .... and are not?

>Are you a gentile boasting against the branches?

>And did you know that He considers that all are guilty .... and not just His kin that you openly hate

>Do you know the He Himself is Jew? ..... do you hate HIm?

>Did He go the cross willingly and for a reason? .... and if so, why do you think He did?

>Did He die for your own sinful nature .... was His death a substitute for you who should have been crucified in His place?

>Is it the Jew only who deserve to perish .... or do you think maybe that you might be just as deserving?

>What do the scriptures tell you?

>Here is what I would suggest that you consider for yourself:

>Take an honest look at what He has said regarding His nation of Israel scripted in His Word .... and what you are saying

..... for you to take the position that your religion has taught you is a slap in His face for many reasons

>And He is the one who holds your own fate in the balance

>How do you think this matches up? Has your religion deceived you?

Is your relationship with Jesus Christ ..... or is it with the SDA religion of EGW?

>Who do you follow?

>Who are you relying upon to save you?

>And do you know for certain that you are saved? .... you can you know .... in fact, if you are in doubt, then I must tell you that you are not

>These are very serious question for you to ponder over

>Without His salvation for you nothing else matters

>He is watching you

.... and your "church" affiliation of the SDA has strayed far from His providence .... not even on the chart

>So you should be concerned for your own good

.... I am not judging you, but I am warning you that you may very well be in danger of your own self destruction

[Aussiemike]

The Lord is in the process of setting Israel in the land for the purpose of bringing a believing 1/3 of them under His covenant [Jeremiah 30; 31; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14]

Deuteronony 30:1-3 "When all these blessings and curses i have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the Lord your God disperses you among the nations, and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything i command you today, then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you."

God said that he would regather Israel from the nations on the condition that they obey him with all their hearts. For this to happen Israel will have to acknowledge Jesus as the messiah. Most Israelies today dont even believe in God. And they certainly reject Jesus. Because modern Israel has not met the conditions that God specified for the regathering from the nations modern Israel is NOT in any sense a regathering as indicated by prophecy

You are still spruking this return of the Old Covenant heresy that the bible repeatedly says is abolished.

For those of you who are seekers after truth i recommend the book by Steve Wohlberg.

End Time Delusions

[Truth Files]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Seventh-Day%20Adventist/wohlberg.htm

[Truth Files]

You are still spruking this return of the Old Covenant heresy that the bible repeatedly says is abolished.

>I would have to say that you are one who has been taught by the spruker [isaiah 14:12-14; Revelation 12:12; 13:4; 20:1-3]

Here is why:

Amos

9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

>Does the Lord lie?

>Is the SDA the house sifted?

>Is your "church" in this vision? .... I think not

>He acknowledges His action to remove Israel from the land .... but then He tells of a restoration of the same to which you say "no way" .... not gonna happen

.... looks to me like you have been duped

Jeremiah

30:18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

30:19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

30:22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.

30:24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.

31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

31:38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

31:39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

31:40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

>How many times does the Lord hae to tell you of His objective? ..... and yet you refuse to believe it

>Don't let the spruker deceive you .... he can you know

[BobRyan]

The Lord is in the process of setting Israel in the land for the purpose of bringing a believing 1/3 of them under His covenant [Jeremiah 30; 31; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14]

This objective will be met during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel [not the church] which is still pending .... all 6 objectives listed will be met [Daniel 9:24; Romans 11:25-36]

Well that is simply not a valid interpretation of the Bible.

The 70 years of Daniel 9:1-5 and the 70weeks (of years) of Dan 9 are all contiguous timelines just as are the 1260 days and the 2300 days of Daniel. Every prophetic timeline in the Bible is contiguous. You cannot slice dice chop-up and insert gaps of "undefined time length" into the middle of Bible timelines. It does not work for creation, it does not work for the weekly Sabbath, it does not work for Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy mentioned in Dan 9, it does not work for the 70 week prophecy (the 490 year timeline) of Dan 9 that points to the first coming of Christ.

That was our first clue that your interpretation had fallen wayyy short of the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

 

See, your house is left to you desolate. Mt 23:28 ESV

And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate. Mt 23:28 NLT

 Now your house will be left completely empty. NCV

And now you’re so desolate, nothing but a ghost town. MESSAGE

Your house will be abandoned, deserted. GWT

The text above is a prediction of the fulfillment of the curse mentioned by Solomon at the dedication of the first Temple. Solomon stated the blessings and the curses. In the curses Solomon said that if Israel strayed far enough from God - then God would utlimately wipe them out - and leave the temple desolated before the nations.

When Hadrian came into power - he made it illegal for a jew to even live in Israel for 500 years. Thus not only was the temple wiped out - the Jews were wiped out from the land.

No wonder Paul says in Romans 2 "He is NOT a Jew who is one outwardly" only but that the gentiles are considered Jews as are Jews that have received Christ.

No wonder Paul says in Romans 9:8 it is not the children of the flesh that are regarded as descendants of Abraham and heirs of the OT promises - but the faithful Children of the promise.

No wonder Paul says in Romans 11 that by the inclusion of gentile Christians "all Israel" is composed and that it is this form of Israel that is then "saved".

in Christ,

Bob

[Truth Files]

Paul does not say what you tell at all Bob?

Romans 11:25-36 has a clear perspective on the differential contrast between the nations of the gentiles and the nation of Israel ..... and this is totally compatible with all scripture on the matter

Your interpretation is not compatible and therefore is contradictive

It is true that the Lord's church is composed of a few Israelites and a multitude of Gentiles with regard to salvation .... but not according to national identity

.... He still has a purpose for a future believing remnant part of His nation and He is going to fulfill it

All of a believing remnant of Israel will be spared and the balance of the unbelieving will be killed during the coming 70th week decreed for the nation [Zechariah 13:8-9] .... this is not your "church" Bob

What you have been taught is false and you need to investigate what you are following

[Aussiemike]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Seventh-Day%20Adventist/wohlberg.htm

I have seen this web site. It is doctrines of devils

Here is what genuine seekers after truth say about Wohlbergs book.

Readers respond to End Time Delusions

E.G.

End Time Delusions is the best book on Bible Prophecy I have ever read. Steve Wohlberg's teaching is firmly based in Scripture, and he not only explains things in ways that make complete sense, he shows how the majority of the Christian world has been deceived for generations...

I even have one Baptist pastor reconsidering his lifelong Futurist point of view...quite a feat for this ultra-conservative man...he does not like his beliefs challenged, but your book has made a real impact on him.

[Gerr]

"Just don't hold your breath waiting for Israel to play a major part in end-time prophetic events. Their 490 yr probation ended 2000 yrs ago when they crucified the Anointed One, and left their house desolate."

>Did you know that Jesus Christ disagrees with you on this issue?

>Are you one who says they are a Jew .... and are not?

ESV | Ro 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

ESV | Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

[Aussiemike]

Originally Posted By: Truth Files

"Just don't hold your breath waiting for Israel to play a major part in end-time prophetic events. Their 490 yr probation ended 2000 yrs ago when they crucified the Anointed One, and left their house desolate."

>Did you know that Jesus Christ disagrees with you on this issue?

>Are you one who says they are a Jew .... and are not?

ESV | Ro 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

ESV | Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

Yes. The disciples of Jesus are New Covenant Israel. Ethnic Israel are Old covenant.

truthfiles is an Old Covenant man

[Musicman1228]

Jesus Christ is an 'old Covenant' OLD Testament man. Jesus Christ was NOT a Christian, neither was He a Jew. He IS the Son of His Father, God Almighty. Jesus did not use the New Testament to prove His theology, because the NT was not around when Jesus was on earth. Jesus proved everything from 'Scripture', which to Him was the Law and the Prophets.

Therefore, when someone asks me what kind of Christian I am I tell them "I am an Old Testament" Christian. Actually, I can't really say anymore that I am a Christian in the modern Pauline sense of the word. However, I AM a follower and bondservant of Jesus Christ and Him alone. He is enough for me.

[Musicman1228]

One more thing before I say goodnight: Jesus Christ NEVER spoke of a 'new' covenant. It is only Luke that says that Jesus said 'new' Covenant, but none of the eyewitness gospel writers used that term-they only used the word 'covenant'. Don't take my word for this, check it out for yourself. Luke was not even there when Jesus said what He did about the Covenant, so there is no reasonable expectation that he (Luke) got it correct. For me, I will go with Matthew and John over Luke any day as far as the accuracy as to what Jesus actually said.

[John317]

One more thing before I say goodnight: Jesus Christ NEVER spoke of a 'new' covenant. It is only Luke that says that Jesus said 'new' Covenant, but none of the eyewitness gospel writers used that term-they only used the word 'covenant'..... Luke was not even there when Jesus said what He did about the Covenant, so there is no reasonable expectation that he (Luke) got it correct. For me, I will go with Matthew and John over Luke any day as far as the accuracy as to what Jesus actually said.

Even if Christ hadn't used the adjective, "new," we would know that he was talking about a different covenant than the one that was made at Mt. Sinai. Jesus' death didn't ratify, or establish, a covenant that had already been ratified with the blood of bulls at Mt. Sinai. Jesus' shed blood established a completely "new covenant." This new agreement was between Christ and the Father that Jesus would come and die for the salvation of all who would put their faith in Him.

But there is actually overwhelming biblical evidence that Jesus spoke of a "new covenant." Only a few Greek manuscripts omit the word "new" in Matt. 26: 28.

In almost all of the Greek manuscripts, Mark 14: 24 also refers to "the new covenant." So Luke 22: 20 is well supported by the Bible evidence.

In addition, we also have the prophecy of Jeremiah 31: 31, 33 in which he refers to God's plan to make a "new covenant." This verse is quoted twice in Hebrews 8: 8 and 10: 16.

At the time the Gospel was written, there were still many eyewitnesses alive who were present when Christ spoke and did the things that Luke records. Notice that in Luke 1: 1-4, the author says that his Gospel is based on what eyewitnesses told him so that we may "know the certainty" of the events he tells us about.

[Lysimachus]

Very good point John317. Jeremiah 31 seals it in stone that the term "New Covenant" was used. It only makes sense for Jesus to have used that phrase if He wanted to be in harmony with the Old Testament.

In Matthew 18:16, Jesus said "in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."

Matthew said Jesus used the term "New Covenant" in Matthew 26:28

Mark said Jesus used the term "New Covenant" in Mark 14:24

Luke said Jesus used the term "New Covenant" in Luke 22:20

That's Three Witnesses that Musicman is denying.

[Gerr]

The 1150 days are future and will be part of the second 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel ..... nothing to do with Antiochus IV [Daniel 11:21-35]

You have yet to show good reason why/how you can separate the last week of the 70 wks from the 69.

Quote:

Everything to do with the coming little horn [Daniel 8:91-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27 [the prince that shall come]; 11:36-45; 12:17] and the setting up of the abomination of desolation on the temple mount .... at the time appointed .... at the end of this present age [Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15-16]

NASB95 | Da 9:23 “At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision. 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 “So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

The Remnant did return. They did rebuild the Temple. Just read Ezra & Nehemiah. And Messiah the Prince, the Anointed One, ALREADY came and ratified/confirmed the New Covenant with His blood on the Cross. Putting this last week into a future time was the Jesuit Ribera's Counter-Reformation idea that Protestants who have lost their roots, have swallowed hook line and sinker.

You can quibble all you want with the 457 B.C. decree that gave religious and political authority to rebuild Jerusalem all you want, but it is a well-established historical date. There is NOTHING in the language of Dan 8:14 that justifies 1150 days. It plainly says 2300 "evening-mornings" for the cleansing/restoration of the sanctuary. It CANNOT possibly be literal days because the angel CLEARLY said that the vision pertains to the "distant future" (NIV Dan 8:25). Adding 2300 days/yrs clearly ends in 1844. That is the inescapable fact.