OMEGA of Apostasy - what do you think it is?

[olger]

Could be, Gerry. However, we live in an evil time where it is getting more and more difficult to be startled.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

At any rate, we are to keep our eyes and ears open, because the devil is out to deceive, if it were possible, even the very elect.

I wish people would write that in their hearts and minds.. And with regard to what Ellen White wrote, please apply "“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” – Philippians 4:8 KJV"...

I'm worried about the state of the SDA church.. :(

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

I agree that it is a bad thing - but it is also easy enough to kill. All leadership has to do say that they will not be allowing it any more. Nothing breaks if they do that.

Sorry, I really disagree with that. Banning Spiritual formation would be like trying to ban drums, clapping, praise dance etc. Would you tell pastors that they couldn't use those particular words or what?.

If the entire probelm with SF is gets down to using "one word" then it is much smaller issue than many have supposed. The problem with SF is the long line of teaching that comes from eastern mysticism on the centering-prayer and silence etc. There is much more to it than "1 word". I don't want the church to be in the business of saying 'make sure you never say a certain word'

By contrast evolutionism and many other errors (including SF) are composed of much more than 1 or 2 incorrect words.

I think SF is wrong - I also claim that I was not taught to engage in eastern mysticism when I attended SDA schools.

in Christ,

Bob

[hch]

Bob:

Your thread entitled "Omega of Apostasy", implies that there is an apostasy, NOT a heresy.

The definition is: "Apostasy (apostasia), a defection or revolt, apo, "away, apart", , stasis, "stand", "standing") is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person."

WHEREAS, the definition of "heresy" is: "Heresy which originally meant "choice" is a controversial or novel change to a system of beliefs, especially a religion, that conflicts with established dogma.[1] It is distinct from apostasy, which is the formal denunciation of one's religion, principles or cause,[2] and blasphemy, which is irreverence toward religion.[3] The founder or leader of a heretical movement is called a heresiarch, while individuals who espouse heresy or commit heresy, are known as heretics."

[hch]

Since this is such a major crisis in God's "Last Day Church (SDA)" why does the Bible not predict these very events and dangers to His Last Day People?

SDA claim that the Books of Daniel and Revelation predict with stunning preciseness their existence as the "Last Day Church" why wouldn't God's cherished apple of His eye be forewarned:

1. That these two dangers (alpha and omega) were coming?

and

2. Just exactly what those two dangers actually were?

[hch]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

What if the omega of apostasy is the rejection of the gift that God graciously gave to His end-time church?

Certainly that would be bad.

...

However when our present Church administrators (such as Ted Wilson) say that we will continue to affirm the prophetic ministry of Ellen White (as also did the GC 2010 session) -- still "nothing breaks". We can affirm her ministry and not be threatened with any lawsuits, school closings, accreditation battles, etc.

[hch]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

What if the omega of apostasy is the rejection of the gift that God graciously gave to His end-time church?

There can be no question that those who accept the Omega of apostasy will first give up their confidence in that gift.

John 3:17

I most respectfully disagree. As I read the Spirit of Prophecy, it appears that those that are deceived believe that they are clinging to the truth that they see in the Spirit of Prophecy.

Including material that I posted here from EGW, there are others that have posted similar material on this thread from EGW giving the same insight.

[hch]

Originally Posted By: John317

There can be no question that those who accept the Omega of apostasy will first give up their confidence in Ellen White's prophetic ministry.

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I don't see this to constitute the "of a startling nature" part of Ellen White's description.

You're right, it isn't. But she does say that Satan knows that if he's going to cause people to be deceived, he must first get them to give up their trust in the Spirit of prophecy.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: EGW

I was forbidden to talk with Dr. Kellogg on this subject, because it is not a subject to be talked about. And I was instructed that certain sentiments in Living Temple were the Alpha of a long list of deceptive theories. {1SAT 343.4}

These sentiments have had an effect on our people everywhere. ... Years ago I did not think that they would meet these errors right in the Sanitarium; but when Living Temple came out, and some of our ministers told me that there was in it nothing but what I had been teaching all my life, I saw how great the danger was. I saw that blindness had fallen upon some who had long known the truth. I pray that the Lord will open the eyes of these ministers, that they may see the differences between light and darkness, and between truth and error. {1SAT 343.5}

Imagine that? Ministers telling the prophet that the apostasy that she is correcting is the very thing that she has been teaching. Looks like the ministers here mentioned are so blind as to not know that they have left the sure moorings of the word of God and don't even know that they have strayed.

If the Omega is anything like the Alpha, would not there be a great danger to the ministers at the time of the Omega that they might be like those in the Alpha? And if the Omega Apostasy is worse than the Alpha, how will that impact the ministry at the time of the Omega?

This is definitely worth posting again.

I have already been astonished to see people who ought to know better, accepting Kellogg's teachings and claiming that it is exactly what we can find in the Bible and in Ellen White's writings.

[John317]

As I read the Spirit of Prophecy, it appears that those that are deceived believe that they are clinging to the truth that they see in the Spirit of Prophecy.

Including material that I posted here from EGW, there are others that have posted similar material on this thread from EGW giving the same insight.

I don't think anyone would claim that as long as a person believes in the Spirit of prophecy, they will never be deceived or hold any false beliefs.

But when I made my previous remark, I was thinking of the following statements:

Quote:

Satan is . . . constantly pressing in the spurious--to lead away from the truth. The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish" (Proverbs 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony.-- Letter 12, 1890. {1SM 48.3}

There will be a hatred kindled against the testimonies which is satanic. The workings of Satan will be to unsettle the faith of the churches in them, for this reason: Satan cannot have so clear a track to bring in his deceptions and bind up souls in his delusions if the warnings and reproofs and counsels of the Spirit of God are heeded.-- Letter 40, 1890. {1SM 48.4}

We have no such investigation to make. In the book Living Temple there is presented the alpha of deadly heresies. The omega will follow, and will be received by those who are not willing to heed the warning God has given. {1SM 200.1}

Notice she does not say the omega may follow or that it MAY BE received by those who aren't willing to heed the warning God has given.

[Lysimachus]

What shocks me is that the debate with Kellogg is still going on in this Church. I thought that was a settled issue LONG ago, but I come into this forum only to discover that people are STILL sympathizing with Kellogg? There are so many other problems to worry about, and what a shame it is we have to go back to square 1 to help people see ALL OVER AGAIN that Kellogg's Living Temple teachings were of the Devil. How sad!

This should be a closed case!

[John317]

I think there's good evidence that the Kellogg deadly heresy is still with us, at least to some degree. That really shouldn't surprise us, though, since Ellen White wrote that it would come up again and again.

She also wrote somewhere that old heresies and errors would re-emerge just before Christ returns. Satan is desperate and is throwing every weapon he's got in his arsenal.

[lazarus]

If the entire probelm with SF is gets down to using "one word" then it is much smaller issue than many have supposed. The problem with SF is the long line of teaching that comes from eastern mysticism on the centering-prayer and silence etc. There is much more to it than "1 word". I don't want the church to be in the business of saying 'make sure you never say a certain word'

So how would you ban it? Would you ban centering prayer? Ban silence?

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

If the entire probelm with SF is gets down to using "one word" then it is much smaller issue than many have supposed. The problem with SF is the long line of teaching that comes from eastern mysticism on the centering-prayer and silence etc. There is much more to it than "1 word". I don't want the church to be in the business of saying 'make sure you never say a certain word'

So how would you ban it? Would you ban centering prayer? Ban silence?

[Daryl]

Pastor Rick Howard in his book, The Omega Of Rebellion, identifies Spiritual Formation as the Omega that EGW warned us about.

We have been discussing this for quite a while now in more than one thread over at Maritime.

[Twilight II]

Pastor Rick Howard in his book, The Omega Of Rebellion, identifies Spiritual Formation as the Omega that EGW warned us about.

We have been discussing this for quite a while now in more than one thread over at Maritime.

Can someone catch me up...

What is "spiritual formation"?

[BobRyan]

Pastor Rick Howard in his book, The Omega Of Rebellion, identifies Spiritual Formation as the Omega that EGW warned us about.

We have been discussing this for quite a while now in more than one thread over at Maritime.

I have seen a large focus on this - and while I agree that it is error - I do not think it holds a candle to the problem with evolution in that nobody is required to teach SF simply because "there are no other text books" or "because the whole world expects you to know this in business, or science, or ...".

The relatively small silo for SF (by comparison to teaching evolutionism in biology, health sciences, geology and now religion departments) means that it is much easier to say "no" to SF and then put a stop to it -- once people decide they want to go that direction.

in Christ,

Bob

[lazarus]

What is "spiritual formation"?

I was first introduced to spiritual formation when I read the book Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster. It's a powerful book that looks at the necessity and practice of developing the inner (devotional) life through various spiritual disciplines.

Here some blub from the jacket of the book....

Dividing the Disciplines into three movements of the Spirit, Foster shows how each of these areas contribute to a balanced spiritual life. The inward Disciplines of meditation, prayer, fasting, and study, offer avenues of personal examination and change. The outward Disciplines of simplicity, solitude, submission, and service, help prepare us to make the world a better place. The corporate Disciplines of confession, worship, guidance, and celebration, bring us nearer to one another and to God.

Here's another perspective:

We could forget the phrase "Spiritual formation," but the fact and need would still be there to be dealt with. The spiritual side of the human being, Christian and non-Christian alike, develops into the reality which it becomes, for good or ill. Everyone receives spiritual formation, just as everyone gets an education. The only question is whether it is a good one or a bad one. We need to take a conscious, intentional hand in the developmental process. We need to understand what the formation of the human spirit is, and how it can best be done as Christ would have it done. This is an indispensable aspect of developing a psychology that is adequate to human life.

The reason for the recent abrupt emergence of the terminology into religious life is, I believe, a growing suspicion or realization that we have not done well with the reality and the need. We have counted on preaching, teaching, and knowledge or information to form faith in the hearer, and have counted on faith to form the inner life and outward behavior of the Christian. But, for whatever reason, this strategy has not turned out well. The result is that we have multitudes of professing Christians who well may be ready to die, but obviously are not ready to live, and can hardly get along with themselves, much less with others.

http://www.dwillard.org/articles/artview.asp?artID=81

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

What if the omega of apostasy is the rejection of the gift that God graciously gave to His end-time church?

There can be no question that those who accept the Omega of apostasy will first give up their confidence in that gift.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

What is "spiritual formation"?

I was first introduced to spiritual formation when I read the book Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster. It's a powerful book that looks at the necessity and practice of developing the inner (devotional) life through various spiritual disciplines.

Here some blub from the jacket of the book....

Dividing the Disciplines into three movements of the Spirit, Foster shows how each of these areas contribute to a balanced spiritual life. The inward Disciplines of meditation, prayer, fasting, and study, offer avenues of personal examination and change. The outward Disciplines of simplicity, solitude, submission, and service, help prepare us to make the world a better place. The corporate Disciplines of confession, worship, guidance, and celebration, bring us nearer to one another and to God.

Foster has at times dressed up this form of eastern mysticism quite well on the surface. But the history of this system of teaching is very enlightening and the fact that it deals with the "centering prayer" of silence (also called "Contemplative prayer") concept of emptying the mind so as to let the spirits speak to you - is the direct opposite of a focus on the Word of God so as to let THE Spirit of God speak.

The "spiritual director" concept appears to replace the role of the Holy Spirit in SF.

The track of error lies close along side the track of truth in that case.

No question that SF is a great evil.

in Christ,

Bob

[lazarus]

But the history of this system of teaching is very enlightening and the fact that it deals with the "centering prayer" of silence (also called "Contemplative prayer") concept of emptying the mind so as to let the spirits speak to you.

Give me an example of a Christian writer who suggests this.

Quote:

The "spiritual director" concept appears to replace the role of the Holy Spirit in SF.

Again I would love to see the evidence for this, quotes, videos, articles, books etc.

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

What is "spiritual formation"?

I was first introduced to spiritual formation when I read the book Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster. It's a powerful book that looks at the necessity and practice of developing the inner (devotional) life through various spiritual disciplines.

Here some blub from the jacket of the book....

Dividing the Disciplines into three movements of the Spirit, Foster shows how each of these areas contribute to a balanced spiritual life. The inward Disciplines of meditation, prayer, fasting, and study, offer avenues of personal examination and change. The outward Disciplines of simplicity, solitude, submission, and service, help prepare us to make the world a better place. The corporate Disciplines of confession, worship, guidance, and celebration, bring us nearer to one another and to God.

Here's another perspective:

We could forget the phrase "Spiritual formation," but the fact and need would still be there to be dealt with. The spiritual side of the human being, Christian and non-Christian alike, develops into the reality which it becomes, for good or ill. Everyone receives spiritual formation, just as everyone gets an education. The only question is whether it is a good one or a bad one. We need to take a conscious, intentional hand in the developmental process. We need to understand what the formation of the human spirit is, and how it can best be done as Christ would have it done. This is an indispensable aspect of developing a psychology that is adequate to human life.

The reason for the recent abrupt emergence of the terminology into religious life is, I believe, a growing suspicion or realization that we have not done well with the reality and the need. We have counted on preaching, teaching, and knowledge or information to form faith in the hearer, and have counted on faith to form the inner life and outward behavior of the Christian. But, for whatever reason, this strategy has not turned out well. The result is that we have multitudes of professing Christians who well may be ready to die, but obviously are not ready to live, and can hardly get along with themselves, much less with others.

http://www.dwillard.org/articles/artview.asp?artID=81

Thank you for posting that.

Question:

When you say "spiritual formation" are you suggesting that our "spirit" is changed by these exercises?

Just to clarify, the internal life of SDA's is very often in dissaray because they do not understand about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the need to listen to the Spirit leading them in their hearts.

What you describe sounds similar, but your terminology is new to me so I am trying to understand it. :-)

[Twilight II]

Foster has at times dressed up this form of eastern mysticism quite well on the surface. But the history of this system of teaching is very enlightening and the fact that it deals with the "centering prayer" of silence (also called "Contemplative prayer") concept of emptying the mind so as to let the spirits speak to you - is the direct opposite of a focus on the Word of God so as to let THE Spirit of God speak.

The "spiritual director" concept appears to replace the role of the Holy Spirit in SF.

The track of error lies close along side the track of truth in that case.

No question that SF is a great evil.

in Christ,

Bob

There is also the prayer life in the inner sanctuary of the believer Bob.

Where the Spirit moves and we listen and follow.

Sometimes just "listening" to the moving of the Spirit, which requires an inward focus on the Holy Spirits leading and guidance in the heart, (after all, He dwells in the heart), is a long established Christian practice.

With in my mind, strong scriptural support.

When the Spirit speaks, He often directs the mind to the scriptures.

But we must be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater and think that "listening" for the leading of the Spirit is "spiritualism".

We must become so sensitive to His leading that the slightest touch moves us.

That requires focus and inward attention.

Many Christians fear this, because they do not understand it, sadly.

[lazarus]

I think the trouble that many SDA's have is that the terminology is foreign and for some that means dangerous.

Romans 8:16 talks about our spirit. Talk of "our spirit" worries us sometimes but I believe our spirit is our experience, character, personality and feelings. Certainly these exercises change our spirit.

[BobRyan]

No question that sanctification changes our spirit.

Ellen White says that on earth our "spirits and our bodies" are being fitted for immortalilty... heaven in God's workshop. (Maranatha p 221 - August 1).

The SF sales message is a good one as it appeals to legit principles about improving our spirit like the one above.

It is the content and substance of SF that is the problem.

in Christ,

Bob