Buying groceries on sabbath

[cardw]

I gave you the benefit of the doubt of actually "knowing something" when you mentioned Veith's statements about secret organizations. Apparently you knew less than I gave you credit for - before making your wild nonsequitter accusations.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

You're still with the largest herd Richard.

Christianity is still the majority in the world.

Not the largest herd, but God's herd. The little adventist flock. And you are sticking close to us. I am glad we can help. Even if it is in a small way. Did you know that there are people here praying for you?

Well that is very kind. We'll see if it works.

[Guest]

Well that is very kind. We'll see if it works.

Excellent idea.

[cardw]

cardw says,

"Actually Christianity is still the majority in the world."

That point could be argued compared to Muslims, but the point is well taken. Majority or minority rule is not something I base my beliefs on. There is no question a majority of christians, muslims, agnostics and atheists will suffer eternal death.

It's a "remnant", and even a remnnat OF the remnant that will endure to the end.

How many made it in Noah's day? The hurd, whatever it is comprised of, offers no safety.

This idea that we are part of the exclusive group is really ego driven. It's a major component in most cults. It appeals to pride and adds a fair amount of fear that allows one to be tricked. This is the basis of the statement that you can't cheat an honest man.

Adventism is such a blip on the canvas of history. The Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses get far more press than we do. It's always just around the corner. God is waiting for us to get ready. We have to be like the wise virgins and bring extra oil so that our light will be ready and won't go out.

It's just a bunch of fear, fear, fear, and more fear. It's like reading the menu in the Monty Python Spam skit. It's the same schtick that all these end time groups use. I see no functional difference between them and Adventism.

[ClubV12]

"Adventism is such a blip on the canvas of history."

Well thats not true, Adventists are the oldest religion on the planet. Adam and Eve were Seventh-day Adventists, as was Noah and all the prophets, the Jews, the New Testament early church.

Adam worshiped on the Seventh day, long before Jewish folks ever came into existence. Adam was looking for the Messiah with the birth of his first son!

NO religion is older than Seventh-day Adventists, which date to the very dawn of time.

[cardw]

"Adventism is such a blip on the canvas of history."

Well thats not true, Adventists are the oldest religion on the planet. Adam and Eve were Seventh-day Adventists, as was Noah and all the prophets, the Jews, the New Testament early church.

Adam worshiped on the Seventh day, long before Jewish folks ever came into existence. Adam was looking for the Messiah with the birth of his first son!

NO religion is older than Seventh-day Adventists, which date to the very dawn of time.

Wow Adventist ego is bigger than I thought. LOL

[ClubV12]

When do you think Paul and the early church worshiped on? What do you think they were looking for?

While the Jewish Nation was in decline, their governing bodies, way of life, financial support and finally the destruction of their last temple, two things remained. Worship on the seventh day and looking forward to the return of Christ.

Ego aside, thats just the way it is, was and has been, since the beginning of time. ALWAYS, throught out the history of this world, ALWAYS, there has been a people somewhere worshiping on Saturday and looking for His return.

It was not man that coined the term "Seventh-day Adventist" that name was given by God Himself to this new group of early "Millerites", who were to continue what had always been.

[BobRyan]

This idea that we are part of the exclusive group is really ego driven. It's a major component in most cults...

Adventism is such a blip on the canvas of history. The Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses get far more press than we do...

It's the same schtick that all these end time groups use. I see no functional difference between them and Adventism.

You are running down Adventism using terms like "WE"???

As if there is an Atheist-Adventist segment of our doctrine.

How in the world do you manage to include atheism under the umbrella - Adventist?

What in the world are you thinking??

As an atheist you may well be a member in good standing in "club Adventist" - but you are not lashing out at "Club Adventist" in your "WE" statements - you are lashing out at the actual Church.

In what sense is this "WE" when it comes from one claiming to be an atheist and having nothing but contempt for the teaching of the Adventist church itself? (in addition to all of Christianity and the Bible)

in Christ,

Bob

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

This idea that we are part of the exclusive group is really ego driven. It's a major component in most cults...

Adventism is such a blip on the canvas of history. The Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses get far more press than we do...

It's the same schtick that all these end time groups use. I see no functional difference between them and Adventism.

You are running down Adventism using terms like "WE"???

As if there is an Atheist-Adventist segment of our doctrine.

How in the world do you manage to include atheism under the umbrella - Adventist?

What in the world are you thinking??

As an atheist you may well be a member in good standing in "club Adventist" - but you are not lashing out at "Club Adventist" in your "WE" statements - you are lashing out at the actual Church.

In what sense is this "WE" when it comes from one claiming to be an atheist and having nothing but contempt for the teaching of the Adventist church itself? (in addition to all of Christianity and the Bible)

in Christ,

Bob

That's a lot of vitriol for the word we.

I grew up as a Seventh Day Adventist and I used to teach a lot of this stuff. So by using we I am taking responsibility for my own mistakes.

There clearly isn't an official Adventist Atheist segment to the SDA church, but I think you would be surprised at how many Seventh Day Adventist teachers and pastors are closet atheists. The church doesn't make it easy to make a living or keep your pension if you come out of the closet.

I'm clearly no longer a member of the SDA church or any other church.

So to put your mind at ease I'm not trying to start yet another branch of Seventh Day Adventism. LOL

[cardw]

While the Jewish Nation was in decline, their governing bodies, way of life, financial support and finally the destruction of their last temple, two things remained. Worship on the seventh day and looking forward to the return of Christ.

Ego aside, thats just the way it is, was and has been, since the beginning of time. ALWAYS, throught out the history of this world, ALWAYS, there has been a people somewhere worshiping on Saturday and looking for His return.

It was not man that coined the term "Seventh-day Adventist" that name was given by God Himself to this new group of early "Millerites", who were to continue what had always been.

Wow this is really a whopper!!

You really think King David was a Seventh Day Adventist?

Or Abraham and his reading of entrails of birds.

I guess the whole vegetarian and conscientious objector thing hadn't caught on. LOL

And just think of the witnessing opportunity god missed when he rejected Cain's offering of vegetables. His sacrifice was certainly healthier than the barbecue that Able was cooking up. LOL

[ClubV12]

I don't "think" King David was a Seventh-day Adventist, I KNOW he was! As were all Jews at that time, just like Adam and Abraham before them. History records this fact over thousands of years. They worshipped on Saturday and looked for the coming Messiah. This is a no brainer, I can't believe it's even a matter for discussion.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

You really think King David was a Seventh Day Adventist?

LOL...nah, its a name that has come about rather recently. I doubt King David would have been able to keep his membership after killing a man and stealing his wife plus all the other things that would not pass muster today? SDA's do not own the idea of 7th day worshiping. So just because we do, does not make others like us. Thinking that way could open a whole can of worms!!!

May have been a 'misspoke' by the author!

[John317]

You really think King David was a Seventh Day Adventist?

Yes, he was. He didn't know the name, of course, but he kept the Sabbath and he looked forward to the coming of the Messiah. That's the same that we modern SDAs do. He had many of the same beliefs that we have. For instance, he also believe in God's heavenly sanctuary and that we should obey all of the Ten Commandments. He believed, too, that God forgives and washes us clean of our sins.

[John317]

I doubt King David would have been able to keep his membership after killing a man and stealing his wife plus all the other things that would not pass muster today?

Yes, the church frowns on murder and adultery. He would certainly have needed to sincerely repent, and that is exactly what David did.

But none of that would have kept David from having the beliefs that make him a Seventh-day Adventist, and it's the beliefs represented by the name-- not the actual name-- that are important.

[cardw]

I don't "think" King David was a Seventh-day Adventist, I KNOW he was! As were all Jews at that time, just like Adam and Abraham before them. History records this fact over thousands of years. They worshipped on Saturday and looked for the coming Messiah. This is a no brainer, I can't believe it's even a matter for discussion.

I think we just entered the twilight zone. I think we must be in an alternate universe.

[Igakusei]

It's always amusing to me when people repeat the "there has always been a population of sabbath-keepers awaiting God's return" trope.

It's hysterical how much ignorance of history you have to possess to believe that.

[cardw]

It's always amusing to me when people repeat the "there has always been a population of sabbath-keepers awaiting God's return" trope.

It's hysterical how much ignorance of history you have to possess to believe that.

This is so true. It's difficult to even know where to start when someone's sole reference for history is the Great Controversy.

[ClubV12]

"AMID the gloom that settled upon the earth during the long period of papal supremacy, the light of truth could not be wholly extinguished.

In every age there were witnesses for God--men who cherished faith in Christ as the only mediator between God and man, who held the Bible as the only rule of life, and who hallowed the true Sabbath."

The Story of Redemption (335)

Of course if you choose not to believe the Lords inspired messenger then you are left to wallow in the mud of ignorance on these matters.

Since the dawn of time there have been those who have kept the seventh day of worship AND looked forward to the His advent. It's not just a name, it's a description of those faithful down through the ages, seventh day worshiping, advent believing people. The Sabbath has NEVER been extinguished, nor the hope of His advent.

In the 1400's there was a group of people publishing tracks, preaching, teaching and identifying the Papacy as the beast of Revelation. There is nothing new here.

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

It's always amusing to me when people repeat the "there has always been a population of sabbath-keepers awaiting God's return" trope.

It's hysterical how much ignorance of history you have to possess to believe that.

This is so true. It's difficult to even know where to start when someone's sole reference for history is the Great Controversy.

Yeah, but it can be hard to fault some people if they've never left the SDA bubble and don't know anything else.

It's the people who have seen both sides that really blow my mind.

[ClubV12]

I've been an Adventist about a year now, it's taken decades to find the truth because I was not ready to receive it, preferring the pleasures of sin for a season. Ignorant and foolish man that I was...

[Igakusei]

In the 1400's there was a group of people publishing tracks, preaching, teaching and identifying the Papacy as the beast of Revelation. There is nothing new here.

That's certainly true. SDA theology is primarily a recombined mixture of dozens of other theologies that predated it... like almost all other denominations and religions.

No doubt those guys in the 1400s were using the same kinds of transparent numerology that you can still find at any Daniel or Revelation bible study.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

This is so true. It's difficult to even know where to start when someone's sole reference for history is the Great Controversy.

Yeah, but it can be hard to fault some people if they've never left the SDA bubble and don't know anything else.

It's the people who have seen both sides that really blow my mind.

I know. It baffles me at times. I think there is a place of reason that turns off when a person hasn't figured out how to derive meaning without a god creating it for them.

[cardw]

I've been an Adventist about a year now, it's taken decades to find the truth because I was not ready to receive it, preferring the pleasures of sin for a season. Ignorant and foolish man that I was...

I'm a pretty conservative guy. So there are a lot of good reasons to behave well without the need for superstition.

[ClubV12]

Behaving well and being "good" people are not the high calling of Christians, it is significantly more profound than that. Lot's of "good" people on earth, only Jesus is good enough. Without Him, good or bad, you still have nothing.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

In the 1400's there was a group of people publishing tracks, preaching, teaching and identifying the Papacy as the beast of Revelation. There is nothing new here.

That's certainly true. SDA theology is primarily a recombined mixture of dozens of other theologies that predated it... like almost all other denominations and religions.

No doubt those guys in the 1400s were using the same kinds of transparent numerology that you can still find at any Daniel or Revelation bible study.

Yeah the Bahai use the 1844 prophecy to say that it predicted the coming of the prophet Bab, a sort of John the Baptist precursor to their Bahá'u'lláh. Like John the Baptist Bab was executed making way for Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of Bahai, who claimed he was the promised one of all religions.