What!!!!!! I'm in debt that much? And I didn't even know it.

[LifeHiscost]

I got this email from a friend of mine...

Quote:

The U.S. Congress sets a federal budget every

year in the trillions of dollars. Few people

know how much money that is so we created a

breakdown of federal spending in simple terms.

Let's put the 2011 federal budget into perspective:

U.S. income: $2,170,000,000,000

Federal budget: $3,820,000,000,000

New debt: $1,650,000,000,000

National debt: $14,271,000,000,000

Recent budget cut: $38,500,000,000 (about 1 percent

of the budget)

It helps to think about these numbers in terms that

we can relate to. Let's remove eight zeros from these

numbers and pretend this is the household budget for

the fictitious Jones family.

Total annual income for the Jones family: $21,700

Amount of money the Jones family spent: $38,200

Amount of new debt added to the credit card: $16,500

Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710

Amount cut from the budget: $385 ( and these guys are in charge of this country)

So in effect last month Congress, or in this example

the Jones family, sat down at the kitchen table and

agreed to cut $385 from its annual budget.

What family would cut $385 of spending in order to

solve $16,500 in deficit spending?

It is a start, although hardly a solution.

Now after years of this, the Jones family has $142,710

of debt on its credit card (which is the equivalent

of the national debt).

You would think the Jones family would recognize and

address this situation, but it does not. Neither does

Congress.

-------------------------------------------

Parenthesis and laughter [and tears] mine LHC

God blesses! Hallelujah!!!!

[phkrause]

Yeah I agree. The problem is our leaders don't care. Whatever happens to us, the people, does not effect the Senate or the House. So what do they care.

[Bravus]

A smart approach to that debt would include both cutting spending and increasing income... neither alone will get the job done.

[Dr. Shane]

Best way to grow that income is to put people back to work. More workers means more tax payers. More tax payers means more revenue. All our financial problems are solved by growing the economy.

Everyone knows how to grow the economy. The energy sector is waiting to cut loose. 1. Open up more areas for oil and gas drilling. 2. Limit the time it takes to settle environmental concerns regarding drilling to one year. 3. Subsidize coal-to-oil refineries. 4. Build combo nuclear power plants and desalinization plants to irrigate areas of Texas and California.

If we do those four things our economy will grow and boom so much that the Federal Reserve will be raising interest rates to keep inflation in check.

[Aliensanctuary]

The politicians believed, and still do, that the taxpayers have infinitely deep pockets. That's why they, and many other government workers, voted themselves sweet compensation and retirement deals. Taxpayer's money was rolling in by the truckloads. It had to be spent, why not use it for themselves?

Forget the stupid taxpayers who have to struggle to make the rent, the car payment, doctor bills, utility bills, income taxes, etc.

But then, capitalism must create inequality in order for some to be wealthy. Those who already have plenty of money, far more than most of us could even dream of possessing, want even more. So, they tax, they charge more for stuff than they should, they charge more for their labor than they should. That way, the wealthy and well-to-do can have even more money, all taken from the poorer classes who have little political power or influence.

The politicians, bankers, and CEO's are responsible for destroying this country. They're still taking, not giving back to those who need it most. Someday our country may realize that it can't save the world. The truckloads of money sent overseas should be returned to the taxpayers, or to the China Unlimited Credit Card Company.

[phkrause]

The politicians believed, and still do, that the taxpayers have infinitely deep pockets. That's why they, and many other government workers, voted themselves sweet compensation and retirement deals. Taxpayer's money was rolling in by the truckloads. It had to be spent, why not use it for themselves?

Forget the stupid taxpayers who have to struggle to make the rent, the car payment, doctor bills, utility bills, income taxes, etc.

But then, capitalism must create inequality in order for some to be wealthy. Those who already have plenty of money, far more than most of us could even dream of possessing, want even more. So, they tax, they charge more for stuff than they should, they charge more for their labor than they should. That way, the wealthy and well-to-do can have even more money, all taken from the poorer classes who have little political power or influence.

The politicians, bankers, and CEO's are responsible for destroying this country. They're still taking, not giving back to those who need it most. Someday our country may realize that it can't save the world. The truckloads of money sent overseas should be returned to the taxpayers, or to the China Unlimited Credit Card Company.

I definitely disagree that they think the taxpayer has deep pockets. I do believe they have it so good they don't want to give up there benefits. But have no problem taking away the benefits that taxpayers have been paying towards for there retirement.

[Kevin H]

The Republicans use to be the party of the rich, the Democrats use to be the party of the common people. The US use to be a Democratic Republic. Today the Republicans are the party of big oil, the Democrats are the party of big banking, the about 200 super rich families own both industries and the US has changed into a socialist democracy. With very few exceptions, most polititicans in office today belong to the same party, the globalists party. We need to be more than just a supporter of a political party. Among Republicans you have Ron Paul, who is against globalism, to Tex. gov. Perry who is one of the great false prophets of Babylon and sounds like a fictional character created by someone with a wild imaginaton writing a version of Left Behind only instead of based on John Darby, that the author had been reading Great Controversy three times too often. Dispite the way how Republican's complain about when Democrats are in office, the Democrats are continuing the same policies that the Republican's put into place, especially in building a super police state.

Revelation predicts, among other things, the economy changing so that the 7th head will control all our finances; life in the oceans deminishing, new desease epidemics, and the scortching hot sun.

Today we are finding nations uniting under globalism and giving up their freedoms. We are finding problems in the oceans such as in the middle of the pacific a contenant sized area of old plastic and garbage killing off the ocean life, and the algae problem off the coast of china. Meats have been so pumped full of antibiotics that we are becoming prone to superinfections, Our diet leading to insulin resistance, obesity and their problems, High Fructose Corn Syrup, soy, especially geneticly modified soy and other genetically modified products, and it's dammages on the body. Then of course there is what the Bible predicts and which the Babylon False Prophets deny, Global warming. Prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes. We are like the Hebrews living in Egype with Moses' return. We are nearing home!!!

[LifeHiscost]

I would be frightened beyond belief if I didn't know my DNA comes from the blood of Jesus.

"“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls."Matthew 11:27-29 NLT

God blesses!

[phkrause]

The Republicans use to be the party of the rich, the Democrats use to be the party of the common people. The US use to be a Democratic Republic. Today the Republicans are the party of big oil, the Democrats are the party of big banking, the about 200 super rich families own both industries and the US has changed into a socialist democracy. With very few exceptions, most polititicans in office today belong to the same party, the globalists party. We need to be more than just a supporter of a political party. Among Republicans you have Ron Paul, who is against globalism, to Tex. gov. Perry who is one of the great false prophets of Babylon and sounds like a fictional character created by someone with a wild imaginaton writing a version of Left Behind only instead of based on John Darby, that the author had been reading Great Controversy three times too often. Dispite the way how Republican's complain about when Democrats are in office, the Democrats are continuing the same policies that the Republican's put into place, especially in building a super police state.

Revelation predicts, among other things, the economy changing so that the 7th head will control all our finances; life in the oceans deminishing, new desease epidemics, and the scortching hot sun.

Today we are finding nations uniting under globalism and giving up their freedoms. We are finding problems in the oceans such as in the middle of the pacific a contenant sized area of old plastic and garbage killing off the ocean life, and the algae problem off the coast of china. Meats have been so pumped full of antibiotics that we are becoming prone to superinfections, Our diet leading to insulin resistance, obesity and their problems, High Fructose Corn Syrup, soy, especially geneticly modified soy and other genetically modified products, and it's dammages on the body. Then of course there is what the Bible predicts and which the Babylon False Prophets deny, Global warming. Prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes. We are like the Hebrews living in Egype with Moses' return. We are nearing home!!!

I have been saying that for years. Excellent post. The biggest problem is all those that think there party is so great and better the the other. The ex Governor of Minnesota has been preaching that for years and as a matter of fact he even said that on FoxNews, they couldn't get him off the air quick enough. I think they really expected him to confirm there hatred for the Demo party. But he said the same as your post and what I've been telling people for many years.

[fccool]

Quote:

Best way to grow that income is to put people back to work. More workers means more tax payers. More tax payers means more revenue. All our financial problems are solved by growing the economy.

That's not true in this economy. And that's one of the largest misconceptions that got us here in the first place.

The economy should grow proportionately to monetary supply in order to maintain stability. Stable growth should likewise be real, instead of inflated. But in this case, it should be clear that the monetary supply should be interest and debt free, and the money should be issued not out of debt, but as a productivity credit spent into the economy. If there's too much money, they can be leveled through higher taxation in appropriate venues. Either way, it should not be a job of for-profit bank that has its own interest (interest of the cronies) to satisfy outside of the arena.

What actually happens in our economy is that every single dollar exists as debt. There are as much money in our economy as there are total debt in the system. All of that money accumulating interest that was never created, whether it's government that borrows the money and spends it into the private sector, or private sector creates more money through banking fractional reserve borrowing.

Now, the reason that the economists like to hide behind debt/GDP ratio is because it hides something. And here's what it hides:

The current debt expansion is exponential. It has to be in order to sustain monetary stability in some shape or form, because more and more money should exist as aggregate debt service payments, without which there's rolling defaults and bankruptcies.

A lot (if not most) of businesses today exist solely due to borrowing in hopes to repay it later.

A lot of individual finances revolve the idea of borrowed future that is paid back over time.

Keynesian economy grows exclusively through government stimulus. It can't function otherwise. Without government debt there would be no money in the system. That's how it works, and that's why it can't be fixed without restructuring, which would mean a complete collapse and new system arising as a result.

Quote:

Everyone knows how to grow the economy. The energy sector is waiting to cut loose. 1. Open up more areas for oil and gas drilling. 2. Limit the time it takes to settle environmental concerns regarding drilling to one year. 3. Subsidize coal-to-oil refineries. 4. Build combo nuclear power plants and desalinization plants to irrigate areas of Texas and California.

Here's the problem. There's no real need for the economy to "grow". Economies grow naturally through every person's desire to satisfy a certain need. If the economy does not grow, then it means that there's either something in the way of people to satisfy that need, or that it's self correcting from unnecessary growths that was "stimulated" priory. It's a mathematical equation that will seek equilibrium.

You can't mandate economic growth. Given proper environment, the economic growth will naturally happen. Given unhealthy environment, the economic growth is like cancer. It's not beneficial, and eventually kills the host.

Quote:

If we do those four things our economy will grow and boom so much that the Federal Reserve will be raising interest rates to keep inflation in check.

There's another problem with this theory. It's a theoretical model that does not consider the limits of both natural resources and the physical world around us. It's not unlimited. There's only so much resources we can drill out and pump out and transport and sell.

Generally, a perceived prosperity results from having more goods than money in the economy. When there's more goods than money, then prices drop and people have easier and better lives. But, then there's no real need for producers to break their backs to produce more goods for less money. That's why cartels and unions form, and why economic equilibrium takes precedent. It revolves around common sense. So far, the technology advances were able to create the ease for producers, but now there's a need for $3 alarm clocks and $3 oil to keep up with ever expanding money supply. The prices have to artificially maintain their low status, and for that either more products have to be produced (which is impossible giving technological limits), or price control should go in effect, which never really works.

What US has done through excessive borrowing is to take centuries of natural development and accelerate it through economy on steroids. It's not a healthy growth. It's not sustainable growth. It's a growth that disregards both natural limits, and environmental impact that perhaps would be assimilated by the environment without greater damage.

It should and it will come down crashing. It should default. There's no other way of fixing it, other than realizing the problem and starting over. Yes, it will be painful as it is for any drug addict in rehab. But, in the end it will be for the best.

That's why I'm more and more convinced that Soviet-style idea of economy was not really that terrible of a thing, given that people would be allowed more freedom of thought when it comes to religion. People had less, but they had enough. Crime was extremely low. And people could get sick, be educated, and have kid without turning into slaves corporate slaves that work three jobs to keep up with the standards.

There's a lie that all of us can have more simultaneously, but in the end we only can have more if other have less. And that's exactly what's happening with 2% of population owning %50 of the resources, and subsequently the power of telling the other %98 how to live, what to eat, what to wear, what to believe, and who to hate.

That's not how the world should work.

[bonnie]

But then, capitalism must create inequality in order for some to be wealthy. Those who already have plenty of money, far more than most of us could even dream of possessing, want even more. So, they tax, they charge more for stuff than they should, they charge more for their labor than they should. That way, the wealthy and well-to-do can have even more money, all taken from the poorer classes who have little political power or influence.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I have been saying that for years. Excellent post. The biggest problem is all those that think there party is so great and better the the other. The ex Governor of Minnesota has been preaching that for years and as a matter of fact he even said that on FoxNews, they couldn't get him off the air quick enough. I think they really expected him to confirm there hatred for the Demo party. But he said the same as your post and what I've been telling people for many years.

Not quite accurate PK.It is the ideology that creates republican or democrat. It is democrat ideology that most conservatives are vehement about. I don't think that all republican politicians are better than someone else.Most conservatives are such because of the ideology,not perfection of human representatives.

When Pawlenty was on Fox it appears more of a scheduled break than anything else.There are many far more controversial guests on Fox than Pawlenty.

[phkrause]

Sorry Bonnie, but I meant the Navy Seal, who disliked both the reps and dems. (I left that out of the post)

[bonnie]

Sorry Bonnie, but I meant the Navy Seal, who disliked both the reps and dems. (I left that out of the post)

If Fox News or any other appeared to want Jessie Ventura off the air,it was not because he was speaking against republicans.

It was because "our Navy Seal" was an embarrassment. Jessie disliked everyone except Jessie

For some reason MN seems to elect them from time to time.

The most popular bumper sticker when Al Franken was elected was "Vote for Franken,He is a crook but he is our crook"

We now have a Gov that has more than one screw loose.His one focus was taxing the rich more and people like that

He is the senator that either Time or Newsweek reported to be the worst senator. He agreed with that with a smile. He was found hiding under his desk after sending his staff home after a terrorist alert.

He is bi-polar,suffers from depression and quits taking his meds occasionaly, and is a alcoholic that "falls off the wagon" from time to time.

You can count on a miraculous ressurrection in MN every time a democrat is close to loosing as with these three. It is odd tho how only democrats seem to be so privileged. More voters than actual voters and many that are proven to be dead.

Always tipping the tide for democrats.

[olger]

Obama didn't cause all the mess we are in. But he certainly made it worse, instead of helping the country set its house in order.

[phkrause]

Obama didn't cause all the mess we are in. But he certainly made it worse, instead of helping the country set its house in order.

I can most definitely agree with that olger, but don't tell me that both parties are not equally to blame!!!!!

[Dr. Shane]

Both parties in Congress are to blame. I think history will treat the Bush Administration good. Bush tried to head off the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack crisis as early as 2003. He was unable to do anything because of both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. He had the federal deficit in decline the last few years he was in office until the financial crisis hit - which is what he was trying to prevent as far back as 2003.

[Tom Wetmore]

That this topic cannot be discussed rationally without almost immediately lapsing into irrational partisan political finger pointing is precisely why our leaders, ALL OF THEM, cannot solve this problem. Nobody wants to own up to their own contribution and nobody wants to stop blaming others.

And the truth be told, the whole thing is more complicated that simplistic political propagandists can grasp. Read fccool's post.

[Dr. Shane]

the reason that the economists like to hide behind debt/GDP ratio is because it hides something.

So you know something that mainstream economists don't?

I have never been one for conspiracy theories. Sometimes... most times... things are just as they seem.

[phkrause]

That this topic cannot be discussed rationally without almost immediately lapsing into irrational partisan political finger pointing is precisely why our leaders, ALL OF THEM, cannot solve this problem. Nobody wants to own up to their own contribution and nobody wants to stop blaming others.

And the truth be told, the whole thing is more complicated that simplistic political propagandists can grasp. Read fccool's post.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

That's how it works, and that's why it can't be fixed without restructuring, which would mean a complete collapse and new system

Quote:

It should and it will come down crashing. It should default. There's no other way of fixing it, other than realizing the problem and starting over. Yes, it will be painful as it is for any drug addict in rehab. But, in the end it will be for the best.

Some people are of the opinion that the problems will be solved

by a progression into dictatorship? And one particular person believes it will be this president, now in office, that will be that dictator. Or at least that was the impression given.

God blesses!

[phkrause]

Some people are of the opinion that the problems will be solved

by a progression into dictatorship? And one particular person believes it will be this president, now in office, that will be that dictator. Or at least that was the impression given.

God blesses!

Well than, he'd have to be re-elected! All those that think that way, at least from what I've seen, don't think he'll be re-elected! So why do we waste all this time being so paranoid. Are we afraid he will be re-elected????? I'll tell you what, if that's what God wants, he will be. Besides it makes no difference as to who will be in the WH, things will not get any better.

[bonnie]

Quote:

LifeHiscost,Some people are of the opinion that the problems will be solved

by a progression into dictatorship? And one particular person believes it will be this president, now in office, that will be that dictator. Or at least that was the impression given.

God blesses!

Interesting. Some of us must have this wrong in thinking the time will come when we will lose the rights we now take for granted. Not overnight but a progression as many are saying not now, this can't be the beginning of end time events. Regardless Obama is taking this country down a path that cannot sustain the US as we know it.

Do we get a reprieve? Don't know,do you? Are we years from earths final hours,couldn't say. But is this country in a heap of trouble? Without a doubt

Quote:

Well than, he'd have to be re-elected! All those that think that way, at least from what I've seen, don't think he'll be re-elected! So why do we waste all this time being so paranoid. Are we afraid he will be re-elected????? I'll tell you what, if that's what God wants, he will be. Besides it makes no difference as to who will be in the WH, things will not get any better.

Obama is far from being beaten.The more he can divide,the more he can conquer.The more on the Obamadole,the better chance he has.

Votes have consequences and we are seeing them now for Obama. If it makes no difference as to who is in the WH I am assuming you do not vote.Sometimes God let's people,governments pay the price for their deliberate ignorance and choices

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

Obama didn't cause all the mess we are in. But he certainly made it worse, instead of helping the country set its house in order.

I can most definitely agree with that olger, but don't tell me that both parties are not equally to blame!!!!!

There are faults on both sides, Oh yeah.

The republicans seem to lack the courage to make the tough choices to start fixing the problem (Not Newt in 94-96 tho). And they make some stupid choices too (Homeland Security etc...).

The democrats seem to cling to their premier goal of making government as bIGG as possible. Truth is, a big government drips red ink because it does not, can not produce anything. All it does it take from producers and give to non-producers. We are near the tipping point when the producers say @*&^%$#@!! and walk away from their businesses, unwilling to feed a monster that keeps taking more and spending most of it on unwisely. That will cause a complete collapse of our economy. Then hopefully the Lord will come.

It's time for the Remnant to revive,

`oG

[bonnie]

The republicans seem to lack the courage to make the tough choices to start fixing the problem (Not Newt in 94-96 tho). And they make some stupid choices too (Homeland Security etc...).

The democrats seem to cling to their premier goal of making government as bIGG as possible. Truth is, a big government drips red ink because it does not, can not produce anything. All it does it take from producers and give to non-producers. We are near the tipping point when the producers say @*&^%$#@!! and walk away from their businesses, unwilling to feed a monster that keeps taking more and spending most of it on unwisely. That will cause a complete collapse of our economy. Then hopefully the Lord will come.

It's time for the Remnant to revive,

`oG

I don't think that those that have never put it all on the line to start a business, have never had to meet payroll and everything else that goes into small business realizes how bad it really is.

Those under 45 don't have a clue as to what tough times are.All else fails we always have welfare. The Carter years were tough but there was not the level of fear and anxiety there is today.

It really does not matter what previous presidents have done,good or bad.There are things Obama could do NOW but refuses to.

He could actually cut back on spending for starters.What a concept