What is the Gospel?

[Tom Wetmore]

[phkrause]

Well for all those that couldn't go to church and missed out on a blessing, this was a great sermon. Even though I did get to go to church and did receive a great blessing from the sermon, I just got my second blessing today. Thanks for sharing Tom that was indeed

[CoAspen]

WoW!!!

Another 5 min sermon, short, sweet, and to the point!

Have heard long series trying to accomplish what was said in 5 minutes.

(hope he is sda because if he isn't...weeelll....may have just violated an edict)

(this is an sda gathering.....isn't it)

(tic)

[CoAspen]

Hhhhmmmmm.....not a lot of response!

Is it because of the person speaking, 'religion'?

Is it becasue of a lack of 'controversy'?

Is it because we would rather 'discuss' minutia?

Is it because it's not from 'EGW'?

Is it because.........

Just wondering?

[ClubV12]

Some more response in a duplicate post of this by Stan in Townhall.

Either way, as was said, worth a repost/duplication, a most impressive "sermon".

I believe this guy is associated with Baptists, in a loose way.

[skyblue888]

If we think this is a great sermon, there is something the matter with us! Have we become like the other churches?

[Musicman1228]

If we think this is a great sermon, there is something the matter with us! Have we become like the other churches?

In answer to your question, yes, Sky, we have become like other churches. Rather than doing what our Forefathers in the Advent movement did in discovering truth for themselves even if it meant being kicked out of the established churches of their day, we have opted for the 'convenient truth' that is being taught by EVERY other Christian church on the planet. We have been lulled into believing that what they have been teaching about salvation MUST be the truth just because they ALL believe it to be true; and this includes the RCC.

The gospel that was taught by Jesus was the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, which states that in order to be saved one must be INSIDE the Kingdom of Heaven. This does not mean that everyone that is INSIDE the K of H will be saved (ref. Matt. 25:1-13) but that is where a person MUST begin (ref. John 3:3,5). This gospel is not the gospel that is taught in Christian churches which is the gospel of the 'personal Savior'. This gospel was anathema to the early Adventists, but was co-opted by our church as a sop to the more established denominations because we did not want to be called a 'cult'.

Here is what Jesus said about this situation:

“‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.   (2) Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.   (3) Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.   (4) Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. Rev. 3:1-4.

These few in Sardis (on of the names of the K of H at the time of the end) have not gone over to the gospel that is the mainstay of the Christian religion, which is why God calls them 'worthy'. The other's in the K of H that have accepted this alternate gospel (other than the gospel of the Kingdom) must repent and go back to what they originally received and heard. This is the gospel that the early Advent pioneers taught, which is one of the reasons they were removed from their own home churches.

Admitting you are wrong in believing a gospel that is not correct, repenting and going back to the original will take some courage, but it is the ONLY way you will be able to become a member of the 5 Wise Bridesmaids that go into the Marriage Feast with the Bridegroom and His faithful and wise Bondservant and fellow servants (Matt.24:42-51) and become prepared to deliver the gospel of the Kingdom to the Bride during the Great Tribulation.

[ClubV12]

Well heres the message this guy presents:

God created us to be with Him. (Genesis 1-2)

Our sins separate us from God. (Genesis 3)

Sins cannot be removed by good deeds. (Genesis 4 - Malachi 4)

Paying the price for sin, Jesus died and rose again. (Matthew - Luke)

Everyone who trusts in Him alone has eternal life. (John)

Life with Jesus starts now and lasts forever. (Acts - Revelation)

Depending on the target audience, time and place this is the perfect message. Could it be misunderstood? Of course, any part of the Gospel can be. Will some interpret as once saved always saved? I suppose. Some might assume NO work, no effort on our behalf is required at all, ever. Others, that ALL will be saved! Theres a 1,000 ways to misunderstand it. But I like the basic message here, which by the way, is targeted to teens and young people. That is who this ministry reaches out to.

The gospel is very easy to misunderstand, just look at musicman, a classic example of twisting it like a pretzel. :)

[John317]

If we think this is a great sermon, there is something the matter with us! Have we become like the other churches?

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

In answer to your question, yes, Sky, we have become like other churches. Rather than doing what our Forefathers in the Advent movement did in discovering truth for themselves even if it meant being kicked out of the established churches of their day, we have opted for the 'convenient truth' that is being taught by EVERY other Christian church on the planet. We have been lulled into believing that what they have been teaching about salvation MUST be the truth just because they ALL believe it to be true; and this includes the RCC.

The gospel that was taught by Jesus was the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, which states that in order to be saved one must be INSIDE the Kingdom of Heaven. This does not mean that everyone that is INSIDE the K of H will be saved (ref. Matt. 25:1-13) but that is where a person MUST begin (ref. John 3:3,5). This gospel is not the gospel that is taught in Christian churches which is the gospel of the 'personal Savior'. This gospel was anathema to the early Adventists, but was co-opted by our church as a sop to the more established denominations because we did not want to be called a 'cult'.

Here is what Jesus said about this situation:

I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.   (2) Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.   (3) Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.   (4) Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. Rev. 3:1-4.

These few in Sardis (on of the names of the K of H at the time of the end) have not gone over to the gospel that is the mainstay of the Christian religion, which is why God calls them 'worthy'. The other's in the K of H that have accepted this alternate gospel (other than the gospel of the Kingdom) must repent and go back to what they originally received and heard. This is the gospel that the early Advent pioneers taught, which is one of the reasons they were removed from their own home churches.

I'm in general agreement with your post here, Musicman, but I don't believe you are correct when you appear to attack the idea of Christ being a 'personal Savior'. Our Pioneers were never opposed to the teaching that Christ must be a personal Savior of every believer. After all, the Bible itself teaches that Jesus must be a personal Savior of each and everyone of us.

[John317]

Well heres the message this guy presents:

God created us to be with Him. (Genesis 1-2)

Our sins separate us from God. (Genesis 3)

Sins cannot be removed by good deeds. (Genesis 4 - Malachi 4)

Paying the price for sin, Jesus died and rose again. (Matthew - Luke)

Everyone who trusts in Him alone has eternal life. (John)

Life with Jesus starts now and lasts forever. (Acts - Revelation)

Depending on the target audience, time and place this is the perfect message. .... But I like the basic message here, which by the way, is targeted to teens and young people. That is who this ministry reaches out to.

I would like to see Part II of his message. Part II would be about "Life with Jesus,"-- what Christ is doing today and what He is waiting for. What Christ will do in our lives if we will allow Him to.

[CoAspen]

If we think this is a great sermon, there is something the matter with us! Have we become like the other churches?

Care to tell us of any 'untruth' in the short message of the video?

What was not Bible 'truth'?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

If we think this is a great sermon, there is something the matter with us! Have we become like the other churches?

Care to tell us of any 'untruth' in the short message of the video?

What was not Bible 'truth'?

He's entitled to his opinion! I still got a blessing from it.

[CoAspen]

Anyone remember the film "Back to the Future"? A great play on words.

Many of the comments through out this short topic and others, make me wonder if some would like nothing better than for the church to 'March forward into the past'.

[John317]

[skyblue888]

The Lord made the matter of salvation very simple for us in 1888.

We are to make it our lifebusiness to "Present our case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for us upon Calvary's cross," for "The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf," in order to receive all the blessings of the covenant of grace that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use. His grace is exceedingly abundant with faith and love and love is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God.

When this message was presented between 1888 and 1901 it was not received, believed, and acted upon with the simple faith of a little child and therefore the blessings of the covenant of grace were lost.

This message has been presented to us again and again in the last few years. What are we doing with it?

sky

[ClubV12]

I thought this fellows message contained that basic truth, righteousness by faith. We can't "work" our way to heaven. Now thats a great opening statement, in time, one would follow up on that with a presentation of the "law". Because the law is the very essence of faith demonstrated.

[John317]

The sermon is not my style, but I think it is good for what it was designed to do, which is to present the gospel to young people. I think he does a great job at that. (I'm going to ask my kids to watch it and see what they think. They're in their early 20s.)

Personally I would prefer to read the sermons of Ellen White or watch the sermons of Doug Batchelor or Joe Crews. But of course it isn't necessary for everyone to enjoy the same preacher.

[skyblue888]

Can you imagine Jesus talking to the youth like this even in this age?

I can't.

sky :)

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

If we think this is a great sermon, there is something the matter with us! Have we become like the other churches?

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

In answer to your question, yes, Sky, we have become like other churches. Rather than doing what our Forefathers in the Advent movement did in discovering truth for themselves even if it meant being kicked out of the established churches of their day, we have opted for the 'convenient truth' that is being taught by EVERY other Christian church on the planet. We have been lulled into believing that what they have been teaching about salvation MUST be the truth just because they ALL believe it to be true; and this includes the RCC.

The gospel that was taught by Jesus was the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, which states that in order to be saved one must be INSIDE the Kingdom of Heaven. This does not mean that everyone that is INSIDE the K of H will be saved (ref. Matt. 25:1-13) but that is where a person MUST begin (ref. John 3:3,5). This gospel is not the gospel that is taught in Christian churches which is the gospel of the 'personal Savior'. This gospel was anathema to the early Adventists, but was co-opted by our church as a sop to the more established denominations because we did not want to be called a 'cult'.

Here is what Jesus said about this situation:

I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.   (2) Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.   (3) Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.   (4) Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. Rev. 3:1-4.

These few in Sardis (on of the names of the K of H at the time of the end) have not gone over to the gospel that is the mainstay of the Christian religion, which is why God calls them 'worthy'. The other's in the K of H that have accepted this alternate gospel (other than the gospel of the Kingdom) must repent and go back to what they originally received and heard. This is the gospel that the early Advent pioneers taught, which is one of the reasons they were removed from their own home churches.

I'm in general agreement with your post here, Musicman, but I don't believe you are correct when you appear to attack the idea of Christ being a 'personal Savior'. Our Pioneers were never opposed to the teaching that Christ must be a personal Savior of every believer. After all, the Bible itself teaches that Jesus must be a personal Savior of each and everyone of us.

I'm glad you at least partly agree, which means I am on the right track. But in your reply you use the ubiquitous "the Bible" as if it has some authority on it's own. The authority of the Bible comes from the words contained therein; that those words come from some source, whether human or Divine. So 'who said it?' is critical as to whether is is authoritative or not. Yes indeed, there is a teaching in 'the Bible' that says we need to acknowledge Jesus as our personal savior. But this 'saying' cannot be made to negate other 'sayings' that speak of the fact that Jesus purchased 'a Kingdom and Priests for God' by His death on the cross (Rev. 5:9-10). This is obviously not related to the individual but to the corporate 'Kingdom of Heaven'. We see this in Revelation, we also see it in the OT, and in the words of Jesus.

I fully believe that Jesus knows me and loves me on a personal level, just as I love Him. But our salvation is not just 'personal', and to believe so, or to teach that this is so, is to leave out a critical element that will cost many their salvation.

[skyblue888]

"The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

He is the Saviour (personal) of all men but especially those who believe.

sky

[Musicman1228]

"The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

He is the Saviour (personal) of all men but especially those who believe.

sky

So, Jesus saves ALL mankind in spite of their choices, but especially those that 'believe'? Is this true, and if so how?

[lazarus]

Can you imagine Jesus talking to the youth like this even in this age?

I can't.

sky

Please don't let the work of G-d be limited by our imagination.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

"The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

He is the Saviour (personal) of all men but especially those who believe.

sky

So, Jesus saves ALL mankind in spite of their choices, but especially those that 'believe'? Is this true, and if so how?

May be the following will help better understand what that means:

"The heaviest burden that we bear is the burden of sin. If we were left to bear this burden, it would crush us." D.A.328.

Or this, "Not only is He the Originator of all but He is the life of everything that lives. It is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. It is by His life that we exist, hour by hour, moment by moment. Except as perverted by sin, all His gifts tend to life, to health and joy." Education,197,198.

Or this, "God's healing power runs all through nature. If a tree is cut, if a human being is wounded or breaks a bone, nature begins at once to repair the injury.. So it is in the spiritual realm. Before sin created the need, God had provided the remedy. Every soul that yields to temptation is wounded, bruised, by the adversay; but wherever there is sin, there is the Saviour."

He is there bearing it for "In Him we live and move and have our being." Acts 17:2.

So if Christ is all this to unbelievers, how much more to those who believe in Him and trust in His merits alone for their salvation.

Of course, the impenitent unbelievers will not be admitted in His eternal kingdom but while they live here on this earth, in their time of probation, Jesus is their life and He protects them and saves them from death, from the decided attacks of Satan, as long as it is possible for Him to do so.

"All created being live by the will and power of God. They are recipients of the life of the Son of God." 1 S.M.301.

Thus it is written, "God who is the Saviour of all men, especially those who believe." 1 Tim.4:10.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Can you imagine Jesus talking to the youth like this even in this age?

I can't.

sky

Please don't let the work of G-d be limited by our imagination.

Nothing to do with imagination but with revelation.

Can you honestly picture the Saviour using "rap" talk to draw the youth? I don't think so.

sky

[ClubV12]

I can invision Peter doing something like this, and the "church" getting on his case, and Jesus telling them to leave Peter alone.

I wouldn't call it "rap" by the way, I think it's an innovative way to reach young people using a medium they are familiar with. Meeting them where they are at.

Now, I have no idea what this groups ultimate doctrines are, but THIS message is a good one for an establishing interest, getting them to ask questions, contemplating the possibilities.