When did the New Covenant begin?

[Q.E.D.]

Please select one answer from the selections below that you think best answers the question, "When did the New Covenant begin?". If you like you may also provide opinions, Bible verses, or Ellen White quotes to support your selection. ~ Thanks for your participation! ~ Q.E.D.

When did the New Covenant begin?

A. Before Christ was crucified

B. When Christ said, "It is finished."

C. At the instant Christ died.

D. At the instant Christ was resurrected.

E. When Christ ascended to the Father.

F. On the Day of Pentacost.

G. When Stephen was stoned.

H. None of the above.

[Gerr]

H. None of the above.

The New Covenant is the Everlasting Gospel which was actually conceived in eternity past, and put into operation the moment sin made its entrance.

[John317]

Please select one answer from the selections below that you think best answers the question, "When did the New Covenant begin?".....

When did the New Covenant begin?

C. At the instant Christ died.

The New Covenant was ratified, or confirmed, when Christ shed His precious blood at Calvary. But that is different from when it began. The New Covenant promise essentially began the moment Adam sinned. From that moment, Christ covenanted with the Father to come here as man's Savior. It is the eternal covenant, or the everlasting agreement, to save all who place their firm confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Gerr]

I've been mulling over whether the covenant of grace started when Adam & Eve sinned or whether it started when Lucifer sinned. Without grace, he would have been immediately zapped. But SOP says that God "bore long with Lucifer..." GC 496.

[BobRyan]

Genesis 3 - the New Covenant begins.

Gal 1:6-11 there is only one Gospel

Heb 8 that Gospel promises forgiveness of sins and adoption into the family of God. It is called "the New Covenant".

Gal 3:7-8 that Gospel was preached to Abraham.

Heb 4:1-2 the same gospel preached to Israel in the desert - is preached to us.

1Cor 10 - they were all baptized into Christ.

Rom 2 - He is not a Jew who is one outwardly.

Rom 9 - The children of the promise are the true children of Abraham and it is they who inherit the blessings promised to Abraham.

in Christ,

Bob

[Q.E.D.]

H. None of the above.

The New Covenant is the Everlasting Gospel which was actually conceived in eternity past, and put into operation the moment sin made its entrance.

Thanks for your response. I have a few questions.

I think I understand that you are submitting that the New Covenant began when "sin made it's entrance"?

Wouldn't the Old Covenant have to end when, (or before), the New Covenant began?

How could the Old Covenant end when "sin made it's entrance"?

I understand that the Everlasting Gospel was conceived in eternity past and put into operation the moment sin made it's entrance but that makes it difficult to understand how the New Covenant could exist before the Old Covenant ended.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Please select one answer from the selections below that you think best answers the question, "When did the New Covenant begin?".....

When did the New Covenant begin?

C. At the instant Christ died.

The New Covenant was ratified, or confirmed, when Christ shed His precious blood at Calvary. But that is different from when it began. The New Covenant promise essentially began the moment Adam sinned. From that moment, Christ covenanted with the Father to come here as man's Savior. It is the eternal covenant, or the everlasting agreement, to save all who place their firm confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks for your response. I have a few questions.

If the New covenant began at "the instant Christ died" then did the Old Covenant end at the instant Christ died?

Wouldn't the Old Covenant have to end when, (or before), the New Covenant began?

How could the Old Covenant end "the moment Adam sinned."?

I understand that the Everlasting Gospel was conceived in eternity past and put into operation the moment sin made it's entrance but that makes it difficult to understand how the New Covenant could exist before the Old Covenant ended.

[Q.E.D.]

I've been mulling over whether the covenant of grace started when Adam & Eve sinned or whether it started when Lucifer sinned. Without grace, he would have been immediately zapped. But SOP says that God "bore long with Lucifer..." GC 496.

Hi Gerry, Thanks for your response!

Is the "covenant of grace" the same as the New Covenant?

How could the New Covenant begin when "Adam & Eve sinned" or when "Lucifer sinned"? Wouldn't the Old Covenant have to be in effect or operation before the New Covenant?

When did the Old Covenant begin and/or end?

[Q.E.D.]

Genesis 3 - the New Covenant begins.

Gal 1:6-11 there is only one Gospel

Heb 8 that Gospel promises forgiveness of sins and adoption into the family of God. It is called "the New Covenant".

Gal 3:7-8 that Gospel was preached to Abraham.

Heb 4:1-2 the same gospel preached to Israel in the desert - is preached to us.

1Cor 10 - they were all baptized into Christ.

Rom 2 - He is not a Jew who is one outwardly.

Rom 9 - The children of the promise are the true children of Abraham and it is they who inherit the blessings promised to Abraham.

in Christ,

Bob

Hi Bob, Thanks for your response! I have a few questions.

You stated that the New Covnenant began in Genesis 3.

Wouldn’t the Old Covenant have to end before the New Covenant began?

How could the Old Covenant end in Genesis 3?

[Gerr]

I think I understand that you are submitting that the New Covenant began when "sin made it's entrance"?

Yes.

Quote:

Wouldn't the Old Covenant have to end when, (or before), the New Covenant began?

What is the Old Covenant? As I understand it, the OC is the covenant grace that the Israelites turned into a covenant of works shortly after it was given at Sinai. NO ONE was EVER saved under the OC. Whether before Sinai, after Sinai, before the Cross or after the Cross, ALL are saved under the Everlasting Covenant, which is a covenant of grace. It seems confusing that the New Covenant should actually precede the Old Covenant. But just as the Israelites turned the Sinai covenant into a covenant of works and became obsolete because they broke it, so can we turn the New Covenant of grace into old covenant by turning it into a covenant of works. God knows we could never meet His requirements for a righteousness that saves, so I don't believe that He would ever offer sinners a covenant based on our works.

Quote:

How could the Old Covenant end when "sin made it's entrance"?

[John317]

Thanks for your response. I have a few questions.

If the New covenant began at "the instant Christ died" then did the Old Covenant end at the instant Christ died?

Wouldn't the Old Covenant have to end when, (or before), the New Covenant began?

Yes.

And after the New Covenant was ratified, nothing could be added to it.

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

How could the Old Covenant end "the moment Adam sinned."?

It didn't.

The Old Covenant had its beginning at Sinai. It was ratified with the blood of an ox.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D

Thanks for your response. I have a few questions.

If the New covenant began at "the instant Christ died" then did the Old Covenant end at the instant Christ died?

Wouldn't the Old Covenant have to end when, (or before), the New Covenant began?

Yes.

And after the New Covenant was ratified, nothing could be added to it.

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

How could the Old Covenant end "the moment Adam sinned."?

It didn't.

The Old Covenant had its beginning at Sinai. It was ratified with the blood of an ox.

Thanks John317,

Still exploring the Old and New Covenants please bear with me. . .

Gerry Cabalo stated that "NO ONE was EVER saved under the OC."

John317, Do you also hold the same position that "No one was ever saved under the OC."?

I ask the question because you stated that the Old Covenant ended the instant Christ died on the cross.

Your statement makes me wonder if there was salvation available under the Old Covenant since you stated that "It ended the instant Christ died."

If there was no salvation available under the Old Covenant, as Gerry Cabalo stated, then why did it end at the instant Christ died?

[John317]

Still exploring the Old and New Covenants please bear with me. . .

Gerry Cabalo stated that "NO ONE was EVER saved under the OC."

John317, Do you also hold the same position that "No one was ever saved under the OC."?

Yes, I do.

Even during the time when the Old Covenant was in effect, people of faith were saved by God's grace through faith in the Messiah to come. They were never saved by the blood of animals. The blood of animals sacrificed typified faith in the blood of Lamb of God.

The proof of this is the fact that if Christ hadn't come, or if He had failed in His mission, no one would have been saved.

[gretta]

Wouldn't the Old Covenant have to end when, (or before), the New Covenant began?

No. If I am assuming correctly what we mean when we use the terms old and new covenant, they overlapped with the "old" covenant taking up a period of time while what we now call the "new" covenant was/is continuing from Genesis to Revelation.

This is a great question. I'm looking forward to seeing more replies.

[John317]

The promises of the New Covenant began at the Fall. But they weren't ratified until the cross.

The Old Covenant began at Sinai (Ex. 19). It was ratified and renewed with the blood of an oxe.

The Old Covenant ended when the New Covenant was ratified at the cross with the shedding of the precious blood of Christ.

However, we can still live under the Old Covenant today, and many do.

Neither Babylon nor the Old Covenant are matters of time or geographical location, but of the spiritual condition of people.

For instance, the man of Romans 7 was living under the Old Covenant, even though he lived after Christ ratified the New Covenant.

And people can be spiritually in Babylon even while being physically in an Seventh-day Adventist Church or on an Adventist Forum.

[Q.E.D.]

The Old Covenant began at Sinai (Gen. 19). It was ratified and renewed with the blood of an oxe.

John317, Does the statement that the Old Covenant was "renewed" at Mt.Sinai "with the blood of an ox" imply that the Old Covenant existed before Mt. Sinai?

Just wondering about that. . .

[skyblue888]

The Old covemant spirit vs the new covenant spirit have always existed. At Sinai the people promised to obey all that the Lord had said. I am sure it wasn't the first time they had made like promises to the Lord. The old covenant spirit makes promises that cannot be kept because of himself man cannot render obedience no matter how hard he tries. These promises are like ropes of sand, like the new resolutions one makes on New Year's day. Romans 7 best describes this experience.

Under this covenant it is easy to fall into the trap of seeking God's approval through the merits of one's own good works, one's best efforts to live a life pleasing to God and men. Every good deed becomes meritorious toward earning one's salvation.

But one who lives under the new covenant spirit makes no promises. He receives every commandment of God as a promise of its own fulfillment. To him every command is the voice of God speaking to his soul in promise and he rests in the merits of Christ's alone for his acceptance with God and he is greatly blessed for through the Holy Spirit he becomes a partaker of Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adan forfeited by transgression.

So I believe John is right in saying that the old covenant spirit was renewed or reiterated at Sinai. If the people had understood the new covenant spirit, they would have received the commandments spoken by Christ as promises while resting in the merits of a Saviour to come.

Instead they received the commandments as something they were to fulfill in their own strength and they promised to keep them and hoped to earn the favor of God by their obedience. They were attempting an impossibility.

sky

[Gerr]

Old Covenant in Gen 19? You mean Ex 19, don't you?

[BobRyan]

Genesis 3 - the New Covenant begins.

Gal 1:6-11 there is only one Gospel

Heb 8 that Gospel promises forgiveness of sins and adoption into the family of God. It is called "the New Covenant".

Gal 3:7-8 that Gospel was preached to Abraham.

Heb 4:1-2 the same gospel preached to Israel in the desert - is preached to us.

1Cor 10 - they were all baptized into Christ.

Rom 2 - He is not a Jew who is one outwardly.

Rom 9 - The children of the promise are the true children of Abraham and it is they who inherit the blessings promised to Abraham.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

The Old Covenant began at Sinai (Gen. 19). It was ratified and renewed with the blood of an oxe.

John317, Does the statement that the Old Covenant was "renewed" at Mt.Sinai "with the blood of an ox" imply that the Old Covenant existed before Mt. Sinai?

Just wondering about that. . .

No, it was renewed after Israel broke it when they decided to celebrate prematurely.

They received the law of God, made a promise to obey God, then before you know it, they had a celebration service around the golden calf. Compare Ex. 24: 7,8.

The renewal of the Old Covenant is found in Exodus 34: 1, 10ff.

[John317]

...Your statement makes me wonder if there was salvation available under the Old Covenant since you stated that "It ended the instant Christ died."

If there was no salvation available under the Old Covenant, as Gerry Cabalo stated, then why did it end at the instant Christ died?

No one was either forgiven or saved by the blood of animals. These things have always only been made available by the blood of the Lamb of God.

If Christ hadn't lived a perfect life, died, and been raised, every single human being would have been doomed to eternal death. Every sin forgiven was forgiven through Christ's death, never through the blood of animals.

[John317]

Old Covenant in Gen 19? You mean Ex 19, don't you?

Yep. Thanks. It's been changed.

[12tribes]

Hebrews 8:7, 13

(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

(13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:1

(1) Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

Hebrews 9:9-12

(9) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

(10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

(11) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

(12) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Hebrews 10:1-4

(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

[skyblue888]

Of course the system of sacrifices ended at the cross. I don't think this is something we need to debate. All understand that. The Jews had even lost sight of what these sacrifices typified.

But I thought we were talking about a different kind of covemant in which people promise to obey God's commandments like they did at Sinai not realizing that this is making a covenant with death as opposed to receiving the commandments as promises while resting in the all-sufficient merits of Jesus, which is the everlasting covenant (John 12:50) not merely written but spoken. In that light, the new covenant came before the old.

sky

[Kevin H]

The New Covenant is the only Covenant. It is the power that the trinity has lived from eternity past, it is the power that the unfallen worlds and angels have for their life with God (One part of the investagative judgment is as they study how the new covenant workes on fallen humans they understand better their own salvation and expirence, let's not steal this expirence from them.)

There are always the pointing to the new covenant. When Israel sinned and the 10 commandaments were broken, God gave new stones. Even before that you have the tower of babel where man was trying to work up to heaven, and Jacob's ladder, which (and most of us have not understood this) was the tower of Babel upside down. The Tower of Babel was the old covenant, Jacob and his family were offered the new covenant.