Hoffa Threatens GOP

[lazarus]

Given the Hoffa family's past connection with the mofia and the violent history of union workers, it is rather naive to write this off as political posturing.

Don't worry it will die down and we'll get exited about the next crazy comment by some politician in a few weeks. It really is ridiculous to suggest that Hoffa is suggesting that union workers burn down houses and the like.

They should invite Hoffa to speak at the next Democratic convention.

[lazarus]

Hoffa: Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these SOB's out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!

[phkrause]

They should invite Hoffa to speak at the next Democratic convention.

LOL wouldn't that be something.

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

They should invite Hoffa to speak at the next Democratic convention.

LOL wouldn't that be something.

It certainly wouldn't be a boring speech, pk. It would certainly get the Dems fired up. They may even try to flash mob the GOP convention, politically speaking of course.

[Dr. Shane]

While in college, about 15 years ago, union members went out to a local job site and slashed the tires of all the heavy equipment on site.

[lazarus]

While in college, about 15 years ago, union members went out to a local job site and slashed the tires of all the heavy equipment on site.

My father was threatened when he crossed a picket line but that doesn't mean that Hoffa threatened violence.

[John317]

I think it's important for Seventh-day Adventists who accept Ellen White as God's last-day prophet to be aware of what she wrote in regard to labor unions:

Quote:

The trades unions will be one of the agencies that will bring upon this earth a time of trouble such as has not been since the world began.--Letter 200, 1903. {CL 10.2}

Conflicts Between Trade Confederacies and Labor Unions

The work of the people of God is to prepare for the events of the future, which will soon come upon them with blinding force. In the world gigantic monopolies will be formed. Men will bind themselves together in unions that will wrap them in the folds of the enemy. A few men will combine to grasp all the means to be obtained in certain lines of business. Trades unions will be formed, and those who refuse to join these unions will be marked men.--Letter 26, 1903. {CL 10.3}

Preparing for the Issue

The trades unions and confederacies of the world are a snare. Keep out of them, and away from them, brethren. Have nothing to do with them. Because of these unions and confederacies, it will soon be very difficult for our institutions to carry on their work in the cities. My warning is: Keep out of the cities. Build no sanitariums in the cities. Educate our people to get out of the cities into the country, where they can obtain a small piece of land, and make a home for themselves and their children. . . .

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{CL 10.4}

Our restaurants must be in the cities; for otherwise the workers in these restaurants could not reach the people and teach them the principles of right living. And for the present we shall have to occupy meetinghouses in the cities. But erelong there will be such strife and confusion in the cities, that those who wish to leave them will not be able. We must be preparing for these issues. This is the light that is given me.--General Conference Bulletin, April 6, 1903. {CL 11.1}

To Preserve Our Individuality

For years I have been given special light that we are not to center our work in the cities. The turmoil and confusion that fill these cities, the conditions brought about by the labor unions and the strikes, would prove a great hindrance to our work. Men are seeking to bring those engaged in the different trades under bondage to certain unions. This is not God's planning, but the planning of a power that we should in no wise acknowledge. God's Word is fulfilling; the wicked are binding themselves up in bundles ready to be burned. {CL 11.2}

We are now to use all our entrusted capabilities in giving the last warning message to the world. In this work we are to preserve our individuality. We are not to unite with secret societies or with trades unions. We are to stand free in God, looking constantly to Christ for instruction. All our movements are to be made with a realization of the importance of the work to be accomplished for God.-- Testimonies, vol. 7, p. 84. (1902) {CL 11.3}

In Disregard of the Decalogue

These unions are one of the signs of the last days. Men are binding up in bundles ready to be burned. They may be church members, but while they belong to these unions, they cannot possibly keep the commandments of God; for to belong to these unions means to disregard the entire Decalogue. {CL 11.4}

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." These words sum up the whole duty of man. They mean the consecration of the whole being, body, soul, and spirit, to God's service. How can men obey these words, and at the same time pledge themselves to support that which deprives their neighbors of freedom of action? And how can men obey these words, and form combinations that rob the poorer classes of the advantages

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which justly belong to them, preventing them from buying or selling, except under certain conditions?--Letter 26, 1903. {CL 11.5}

Unions That Are Formed or Shall Be Formed

Those who claim to be the children of God are in no case to bind up with the labor unions that are formed or that shall be formed. This the Lord forbids. Cannot those who study the prophecies see and understand what is before us?--Letter 201, 1902. {CL 12.1}

[Dr. Shane]

A hotel owner asked me to give him a price for a hotel in Port Arthur, Texas. After speaking with several subcontractors, I had to tell the prospective client that I could not provide a price for him because all of my subcontractors are non-union and afraid to work in Port Arthur.

The Obama Administration should pressuring Hoffa to apologize for incendiary remarks.

[lazarus]

I think it's important for Seventh-day Adventists who accept Ellen White as God's last-day prophet to be aware of what she wrote in regard to labor unions:

???????

[Dr. Shane]

Today's news:

Judge warns Wash. union to halt illegal tactics

Quote:

Hundreds of Longshore workers overpowered security guards in an aggressive raid on a Washington state grain terminal...

Protesters twice blocked the pathway of a train carrying grain to the terminal at the Port of Longview on Wednesday, and early Thursday morning hundreds of them stormed the facility, overwhelmed guards, dumped grain and broke windows, police said.

[John317]

I think it's important for Seventh-day Adventists who accept Ellen White as God's last-day prophet to be aware of what she wrote in regard to labor unions:

Originally Posted By: Lazarus

???????

What is your question, Lazarus?

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

And I am not allowing what EGW says about Unions.....

Sir. You are not the moderator of this forum. Anyone wanting to discuss what EGW says about unions is welcome to do so. This forum is a place where people can participate in the free exchange of ideas. We are not going to tell anyone they are not allowed to quote EGW here.

Never said that I was moderator. However, if you want to convince me with YOUR evidence, EGW will not be sufficient. I, being open to change, would like the evidence...

However, with your tone of your post, you come off as narrow minded and unfriendly. So, I'm off....

You had your chance to make your point.....

[Neil D]

I built a project a few years ago with an architect from Arizona. He told me that a short time before that he was building a project in New Jersey. While reviewing the general contractor's pay application, he discovered the plumbing contractor was over-billing so he cut the plumber's draw. A couple of weeks later when he was doing an on-site inspection, a limousine pulled up and a fine-dressed man in a three-piece suit got out and asked the architect if he was the project architect. When the architect told him he was. The finely dressed many told him that he was the plumber and if his draw were to get cut again, it would be the last draw that architect would ever cut. The architect told me that he never questioned another draw on the plumbing for the rest of the project.

President Obama should tell Hoffa to apologize for the remark. It was way over the line.

anadoctal evidence? You provide anadoctal evidence? You've got to do better than that......

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: John317

I think it's important for Seventh-day Adventists who accept Ellen White as God's last-day prophet to be aware of what she wrote in regard to labor unions:

Originally Posted By: Lazarus

???????

What is your question, Lazarus?

I don't have a question. The fact that Ellen White talks about the activities of labor unions in that last days does does not mean that Hoffa threatened the GOP.

I am aware of what Ellen White said. What Ellen White said does not change what Hoffa said.

[Dr. Shane]

if you want to convince me with YOUR evidence, EGW will not be sufficient. I, being open to change, would like the evidence...

It seems you misunderstand the purpose of this political section. We are not hear to convince each other of political positions. We are simply here to exchange ideas freely. If a person is going to try to convince others to change their mind, they are likely to become very frustrated here.

I share what I think and the reasons why I think that way. Others disagree and share why they think differently. That is not to say who is right and who is wrong. It is highly likely that both sides of a disagreement are wrong. The purpose is not to convince anyone but simply to exchange ideas. That is what we are doing here.

[Dr. Shane]

does not mean that Hoffa threatened the GOP.

I think what you are talking about is Hoffa's intentions. I can't claim to know what his intentions were. But I think we can agree that perception is very important. Is it possible that union members could perceive a call to violence from Hoffa's remarks? I think it is very likely that union members being called to war against the Tea Party could start slashing tires and driving aggressively when they see cars with Tea Party bumper stickers on them. If Hoffa's remarks were not intended to incite violence, they were very reckless and he should offer an apology.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

if you want to convince me with YOUR evidence, EGW will not be sufficient. I, being open to change, would like the evidence...

It seems you misunderstand the purpose of this political section. We are not hear to convince each other of political positions. We are simply here to exchange ideas freely. If a person is going to try to convince others to change their mind, they are likely to become very frustrated here.

I share what I think and the reasons why I think that way. Others disagree and share why they think differently. That is not to say who is right and who is wrong. It is highly likely that both sides of a disagreement are wrong. The purpose is not to convince anyone but simply to exchange ideas. That is what we are doing here.

"exchange of ideas"? Explain to me, for what purpose? Doesnt' the bible say that sort of thing is called "vanity"? So, Is not the presenting of a differing POV, one to change one's thinking? Is notthe existance of this forum to present ideas that there is the possiblity that someone, who might be of clear head and persuadable nature, to change his mind?

Well, here is one...I am willing to change my mind....Bring me your evidences, your ideas [if that is what you want to call it]...persuade me that you are correct in your thinking....and you will, if you are of sound observation and wise logic and insightful of human nature....

Of course, I understand if the task is a bit more than what you can handle...We wouldn't want to over tax that wonder mind that your wife so dearly loves....

[phkrause]

"exchange of ideas"? Explain to me, for what purpose? Doesnt' the bible say that sort of thing is called "vanity"? So, Is not the presenting of a differing POV, one to change one's thinking? Is notthe existance of this forum to present ideas that there is the possiblity that someone, who might be of clear head and persuadable nature, to change his mind?

Well, here is one...I am willing to change my mind....Bring me your evidences, your ideas [if that is what you want to call it]...persuade me that you are correct in your thinking....and you will, if you are of sound observation and wise logic and insightful of human nature....

Of course, I understand if the task is a bit more than what you can handle...We wouldn't want to over tax that wonder mind that your wife so dearly loves....

Not sure how you get "vanity" out of people sitting down and talking about things? Even God says he wants to sit down with us and reason together. So on this point I disagree with you. But I definitely disagree with Shane about this political forum being an exchange of opinions, some do but most don't, its either I'm right about this group and your wrong for being for that group. So most of the time its not a matter of exchanging ideas but critisizing someone who's not for your party.

[Neil D]

Not sure how you get "vanity" out of people sitting down and talking about things? Even God says he wants to sit down with us and reason together.

[Dr. Shane]

"exchange of ideas"? Explain to me, for what purpose?

The idea is to better understand each other. Too often one side makes the other side into the enemy. That is unfortunate. Often times both sides have the same goal and simply disagree with the means to achieve the goal. As Seventh-day Adventist Christians we disagree a lot on political issues but I believe we all have the same goals. I think having a free exchange of ideas does promote a better understanding of each other and that is a good thing.

Instead of saying "You need to prove this or that..." It is so much nicer to say, "Help me understand your thinking. Why do you believe this or that...?"

[Dr. Shane]

I definitely disagree with Shane about this political forum being an exchange of opinions, some do but most don't, its either I'm right about this group and your wrong for being for that group. So most of the time its not a matter of exchanging ideas but criticizing someone who's not for your party.

People do state their opinions and defend them. That is fine. But we want to stop short of attacking other members. No one has to prove they are right but we can ask them to explain their thinking. If we could see things as God sees them, we are probably all wrong, at least to a certain degree. So we should discuss these things with a certain bit of humility.

Politics is a lot like shoveling snow or mowing the lawn. The impact is short lived. Winning souls is what has an eternal impact. I think we need to keep that in mind.

[John317]

...Doesn't make sense on an ADVENTIST forum to lie. However, I do see people selling thier souls to one philosophy and not allowing the Adventist message to permeate thier beings..And I fear that is what a lot of people have done....

What exactly is the Adventist message that should permeate our beings? Are you talking about the Three Angels' Messages?

It is not a message that should cause us to be divided because of our political views. We should be free to believe whatever we think is best. If politics causes us to be divided, it would probably be best not even to talk about politics. We need to realize that it's normal for people to see political issues differently. It is part of the American way.