The Death of Reasonable Doubt...

[John317]

"And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.

[6] "Whoever sheds the blood of man,

by man shall his blood be shed,

for God made man in his own image." (Gen. 9: 5,6)

There's nothing in the entire Bible that shows God has changed his mind.

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

I see that a "reckoning" does not mean "take the life of another"....All word for word translations use either "an accounting" or "a reckoning"..... how do you reckon for this mistranslation?

The Hebrew word that "reckoning" is translated from is Strongs #1875, daw-rash. Here in Gen. 9: 5, it means to "ask for, require, demand, exact, often with the idea of avenging," as in Deut. 18: 19; Ezekiel 34: 10; 33: 6; 2 Chron 24: 22.

The Hebrew-English Lexicon refers to Gen. 9: 5 as an example of where daw-rash refers to "the idea of avenging." (See The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Hendrickson Publishers, page 205, section #5 under daw-rash, Strongs #1875.)

Deut. 18:19

And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

Ezekiel 34:10

Thus says the Lord God, Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require my sheep at their hand and put a stop to their feeding the sheep. No longer shall the shepherds feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them.

Ezekiel 33:6

But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.

2 Chron. 24:22

Thus Joash the king did not remember the kindness that Jehoiada, Zechariah's father, had shown him, but killed his son. And when he was dying, he said, "May the Lord see and avenge!"

I don't see any reason for questioning the significance of Gen. 9: 6--

"Whoever sheds the blood of man,

by man shall his blood be shed,

for God made man in his own image." (Gen. 9: 5,6)

Would you agree that this is speaking of taking the life of people who shed the blood of other people-- those who are made in God's own image?

[fccool]

My question was, does failing to execute mass murderes make the world a better place, and you say that failing to execute them makes the world even more cruel.

You probably didn't understand the question. I'm sure you mean that executing mass murderers or serial killers makes the world more cruel.

[fccool]

Again, it would be great if God was consistent on this issue. But, as I've said before, the very first crime of murder that truly deserved a death sentence went unpunished and resulted in banishment, meaning that he could potentially kill other people. Why would God decide to make the world worse?

We don't do that anymore, we lock people up and restrain them with criminals who teach them to be even more cruel and less compassionate. And them we wonder why is it that they come out of jails and repeat those crimes. Their worldview and view of themselves as criminals. When the society tells you that you are, what are you left with? I admire people who overcome that stigma.

Either way, these death sentences in the Bible were set and judged by God himself. It's not up to men to decide who will live, and who will die. That decision in Biblical dogma belongs to God alone. And there were plenty of exceptions and circumstances where people were granted amnesty and forgiveness, even for most horrible crimes.

May I remind you that both Moses and David, and the guy who wrote most of the NT were murderers by modern legal standards. A bit inconsistent your view is? Or, perhaps, you don't believe that people can change and hope is not lost for anyone in this world? No matter how horrible they've been in the past?

Do you think that God was incorrect in not executing Cain, Paul, Moses, and David? What gives us the right to decide to do that to other people, when we have limited understanding and knowledge?

[Pockey]

As his last hours ticked away, an upbeat and prayerful Davis turned down an offer for a special last meal as he met with friends, family and supporters...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/21/national/main20109883.shtml

[John317]

From the news article:

Quote:

Davis' best chance may have come last year, in a hearing ordered by the U.S. Supreme Court. It was the first time in 50 years that justices had considered a request to grant a new trial for a death row inmate.

The high court set a tough standard for Davis to exonerate himself, ruling that his attorneys must "clearly establish" Davis' innocence -- a higher bar to meet than prosecutors having to prove guilt. After the hearing judge ruled in prosecutors' favor, the justices didn't take up the case.

[phkrause]

Sad situation all around. I remember we had a thread on this way back, and I read some of the links. Seems to me he got a raw deal and now he's dead. I will say that eventually he will be found not to have been the killer.

[John317]

I honestly and sincerely hope not, pk. I hope he was guilty. I'd hate to think of all that happening to a totally innocent person.

Guilty people have gone to their executions claiming to be innocent before, of course. Caryl Chessman is one example. I used to believe he was innocent, but after studying his life and his case more, I've concluded that he was guilty.

If I was completely innocent and yet was going to be executed by the state, I would never have stopped yelling and protesting. They would have had to put tape on my mouth to shut me up. I would definitely have taken the witness stand in my own defense, which Davis didn't do. That was his last chance. He didn't ask those witnesses to testify either. At his last hearing, he hardly put up any defense at all. I find that most troubling.

[John317]

I have a friend, Jeris Bragan, who served 25 years for murder that another person committed. So I'm pretty familiar with situations where people have been wrongly convicted.

I hope you return and tell us about your friendship with Jeris Bragan. Tell us, please, how you know him and when you last talked or wrote to him.

I'm sure you realize that he was found guilty by a jury twice and sentenced to 99 years both times.

What is there about the case that makes you believe Bragan is innocent?

Please check out the discussion, "What's the Latest On Jeris Bragan." There's quite a lot about his case there, as well as letters he's recently written to an SDA periodical.

[Overaged]

Did you actually watch the video?

No DNA

No Weapon

Key witness implicated as actual shooter

7 of 9 witnesses recanted

It's a trailer not a lawyers brief! Propaganda? Really?

It would be nice if we could count as gospel everything we hear or read in the news; but it is not likely to happen in this life.