1335 Futurists, their BACK!

[John317]

You're making out Satan and the United States as being the same thing. This is false, Satan works thru leaders in all countries.

I've never suggested that the second beast of Revelation 13 is both Satan and the United States. The earth-beast is the United States of America. But Satan obviously works through the United States, just as God has at times worked through the United States.

Satan will work through particularly the United States just before the return of Christ. His purpose will be to try to wipe out God's people through persecution, specifically through the Sunday laws.

I'm sure you've read Ellen White's writings. Do you accept her as an inspired messenger of God to the remnant church?

[cheddar]

Yes, I do think she was inspired but prohets are not perfect or infallible.

Balaam and Jonah were both prophets and both had serious issues.

Also, God would not give all the truth or light to someone who won't even be alive in the last days.

We still have to find truth the old fashioned way - we have to search the scriptures and pray for understanding.

[John317]

Yes, I do think she was inspired but prohets are not perfect or infallible.

Balaam and Jonah were both prophets and both had serious issues.

No prophet except for Christ has ever been infallible.

When under inspiration, did either Jonah or Balaam write or say things that were wrong? Did they, or other genuine prophets, ever teach false doctrines?

Paul, James and Peter made obvious mistakes in their personal lives, but not in their writing. It's the writing of Ellen White's Testimonies that we're concerned with here, not whether she was infallible in her personal life.

[Windsor]

Oh, it's NOT an assumption at all!!!! It is clearly supported from both biblically and from the Spirit of Prophecy. The 1260, 1290 and 1335 CANNOT BE REMOVED from the 2,300.

If they are future, the 2,300 year prophecy is toast, the rug is pulled out from under the Seventh-day Adventist church, the foundation crumbles. What amazes me is that some "1335 Futurist" don't see this. Somehow, in their delusion, they think we can have it all. The old and the new beliefs. A gross mistake, SO serious, the church would be forced to consider "membership issues" for those openly teaching this false doctrine.

So when you say the church could be forced to consider membership issues for those openly teaching the false doctrine of the 1335 futurist position, you don't actually mean they should be disfellowshipped? I guess I am confused.

[cheddar]

This debate is futile but I'll play along.

You still haven't explained how the United States will call fire down out of heaven and perform miracles.

If no other person had ever called fire down out of heaven, I would say yea, maybe that's symbolic but it has actually been done before.

A country cannot do those things.

[ClubV12]

Yes, we've seen plenty of examples of that through out the history of the church. People "fighting against" the foundational doctrines of the church put their membership at risk. Dr. Kellogg and Dr. Desmond Ford are two such examples.

Asking sincere questions is one thing. Some "1335 Futurists" are SO far "out there" they are fanatics. Some believe William Miller was wrong, Ellen White was wrong and the pioneers were wrong. That "they" are being led of the Holy Spirit, have "new light", but won't counsel with the brethren because they don't trust them. Such put their membership at risk.

It is a fact that one, of several, reasons for disfellowship is to openly defy and reject the counsel of the brethren. MANY have lost their membership based on this principle. Obviously much time must be given for consideration of the issues, the person, what steps have been taken. But in the end, if you "fight against" the brethren, you stand alone.

If you really believe the church "got it wrong" on some doctrinal issue, stand your ground, do not be afraid. Challenge them! Let them disfellowship you, don't be a coward and hide in the closet over it. But better be very very sure of your position, like Dr. Kellogg and Dr. Ford were, who were both in deep delusion, by the way.

Reasons for membership removal, from the church manual:

1. Denial of faith in the fundamentals of the gospel and in the cardinal doctrines of the church or teaching doctrines contrary to the same.

9. Persistent refusal to recognize properly constituted church authority or to submit to the order and discipline of the church.

[cheddar]

It's easy to be brave over the internet.

I bet you wouldn't be so brave face to face.

[ClubV12]

It's not a matter of being "brave" or not. It's just stating the facts. That applies to any organization. Mason's, KKK, a political party, a civil party, a fraternity, a union, a church it doesn't matter. They all have "rules, laws and by-laws" one must follow if they want to retain membership.

Many early Adventists were disfellowshiped from their churches, including Ellen White. When you reach a point where you cannot support your organization, don't be a coward, leave or force the issue. But stand by your beliefs, the early Adventist did, the Waldenses did, Martin Luther did, and those who expect to be alive when Christ comes will. They will stand alone, even unto death.