the great apostasy

[phkrause]

Satan is not a man

Excellent point OA

[skyblue888]

It should interest you to know that in Ezekiel 28 Satan is referred to as a man. "Will you yet say before him that slays you, I am God? But you shall be a man, and not God, in the hand of him that slays you." Verse 9.

In verses 7 and 8 it says that the terrible of the nations (after the thousand years) will draw their swords against him and they shall defile his brightness. They shall brought him down to the Pit. In verse 10 it says that Satan shall die the death of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers. This is all taking place after the thousand years when the most terrible of the unsaved will turn upon him with the fury of demons. (See G.C.672)

In Isaiah 12:14-17 again he is referred to as a man.

"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be l ike the Most High. Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see you shall narrowly look upon you, and consider you, saying, Is this the man who made the earth to tremble, who did shake kingdoms? Who made the world like a wilderness, and destroyed its cities, who opened not the house of his prisoners?"

Of course Satan is a fallen angel but isn't it interesting that here in these passages from Isaiah and Ezekiel he is spoken of as a man!

sky

[cheddar]

Ellen White said (all the ears perk up) that Satan's impersonation will be similar to John's description of Jesus in Rev. chap 1.

Jesus is God but a man as well. Any counterfeit that is believed to be true must be as close to the original as possible.

[skyblue888]

Ellen White said (all the ears perk up) that Satan's impersonation will be similar to John's description of Jesus in Rev. chap 1.

Jesus is God but a man as well. Any counterfeit that is believed to be true must be as close to the original as possible.

Cheddar

_________________

That's right she did say that. It will be his last ditch effort to bring over to his side all who are still faithful to God and His law, especially in regard to the Sabbath day.

sky

[skyblue888]

The few faithful builders upon the true foundation (1 Corinthians 3:10, 11) were perplexed and hindered as the rubbish of false doctrine obstructed the work. Like the builders upon the wall of Jerusalem in Nehemiah's day, some were ready to say: "The strength of the bearers of burdens is decayed, and there is much rubbish; so that we are not able to build." Nehemiah 4:10.

Wearied with the constant struggle against persecution, fraud, iniquity, and every other obstacle that Satan could devise to hinder their progress, some who had been faithful builders became disheartened; and for the sake of peace and security for their property and their lives, they turned away from the true foundation. Others, undaunted by the opposition of their enemies, fearlessly declared: "Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible" (verse 14); and they proceeded with the work, everyone with his sword girded by his side. (Ephesians 6:17)

The same spirit of hatred and opposition to the truth has inspired the enemies of God in every age, and the same vigilance and fidelity have been required in His servants. The words of Christ to the first disciples are applicable to His followers to the close of time: "What I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." Mark 13:37. 59,60

to be continued

[12tribes]

Ellen White said (all the ears perk up) that Satan's impersonation will be similar to John's description of Jesus in Rev. chap 1.

Jesus is God but a man as well. Any counterfeit that is believed to be true must be as close to the original as possible.

Many in Christ's day were taught incorrect teachings on the coming messiah and therefore did not recognize Him, also today there are false teachings on the 2nd coming with Christ setting up His kingdom on earth and a 7 year tribulation, sadly many will be deceived by these false teachings when Satan impersonates Christ they will think that it is him fulfilling what they think is Bible prophecy.

[BobRyan]

Well the truth on this thread is that the pope doesn't fit the man of sin in 2 Thes. 2:3,4 for two reasons.

1) The verse says that he sits in the temple of God. The vatican is not a temple it's a church. The greek word for church refers to a gathering of believers and the greek word for temple refers directly to the Jewish sanctuary consisting of a holy and most holy. I wasn't raised Catholic so maybe they see the vatican as a temple but I don't think they do and it doesn't fit anyway.

2) The man of sin claims to be God. Again I was not raised Catholic so I don't know the mindset but I think most see the pope as the representative of God not God himself. If we were to ask most Catholics if the pope were God, I think most would say no. The pope was born into this world like everyone else so once again the represtative of God and God himself are not the same thing.

The former and present day Catholics out there can check my facts on this one.

In Acts 2 Peter applies the prophecy of Joel 2 - that is explicitly speaking of the last days - to Pentecost.

Joel 2 does have application to Pentecost - but if you want "every detail fulfilled" then it is clearly the end-time Latter Rain event that Joel 2 is predicting.

In 2Thess 2 we have something that was already at work in Paul's day. Something that involved the great apostasy of the dark ages - and something that culminates in a counterfeit second coming. ALL of it (both the papacy and the work of Satan) combine to fulfill the 2thess 2 prediction.

As for the Catholic "God on earth" this is indeed Catholic teaching. Christ was God on earth - and His representative - "The vicar of Christ on earth" - is taken to be just as infallible when he or his magesterium speak "ex cathedra".

In Catholic thinking - to obtain the blessing or approval of the Pope - is to obtain the blessing of God himself. And when the Pope says the mass - he "confects God".

That is beyond dispute.

in Christ,

Bob

[skyblue888]

Previous post:

The few faithful builders upon the true foundation (1 Corinthians 3:10, 11) were perplexed and hindered as the rubbish of false doctrine obstructed the work. Like the builders upon the wall of Jerusalem in Nehemiah's day, some were ready to say: "The strength of the bearers of burdens is decayed, and there is much rubbish; so that we are not able to build." Nehemiah 4:10.

Wearied with the constant struggle against persecution, fraud, iniquity, and every other obstacle that Satan could devise to hinder their progress, some who had been faithful builders became disheartened; and for the sake of peace and security for their property and their lives, they turned away from the true foundation. Others, undaunted by the opposition of their enemies, fearlessly declared: "Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible" (verse 14); and they proceeded with the work, everyone with his sword girded by his side. (Ephesians 6:17)

The same spirit of hatred and opposition to the truth has inspired the enemies of God in every age, and the same vigilance and fidelity have been required in His servants. The words of Christ to the first disciples are applicable to His followers to the close of time: "What I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." Mark 13:37. 59,60

to be continued

____________________

The darkness seemed to grow more dense. Image worship became more general. Candles were burned before images, and prayers were offered to them. The most absurd and superstitious customs prevailed. The minds of men were so completely controlled by superstition that reason itself seemed to have lost her sway. While priests and bishops were themselves pleasure-loving, sensual, and corrupt, it could only be expected that the people who looked to them for guidance would be sunken in ignorance and vice.

Another step in papal assumption was taken, when, in the eleventh century, Pope Gregory VII proclaimed the perfection of the Roman Church. Among the propositions which he put forth was one declaring that the church had never erred, nor would it ever err, according to the Scriptures. But the Scripture proofs did not accompany the assertion. The proud pontiff also claimed the power to depose emperors, and declared that no sentence which he pronounced could be reversed by anyone, but that it was his prerogative to reverse the decisions of all others." 60

to be continued

[skyblue888]

A striking illustration of the tyrannical character of this advocate of infallibility was given in his treatment of the German emperor, Henry IV. For presuming to disregard the pope's authority, this monarch was declared to be excommunicated and dethroned. Terrified by the desertion and threats of his own princes, who were encouraged in rebellion against him by the papal mandate, Henry felt the necessity of making his peace with Rome. In company with his wife and a faithful servant he crossed the Alps in midwinter, that he might humble himself before the pope. Upon reaching the castle whither Gregory had withdrawn, he was conducted, without his guards, into an outer court, and there, in the severe cold of winter, with uncovered head and naked feet, and in a miserable dress, he awaited the pope's permission to come into his presence. Not until he had continued three days fasting and making confession, did the pontiff condescend to grant him pardon. Even then it was only upon condition that the emperor should await the sanction of the pope before resuming the insignia or exercising the power of royalty. And Gregory, elated with his triumph, boasted that it was his duty to pull down the pride of kings.

How striking the contrast between the overbearing pride of this haughty pontiff and the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who represents Himself as pleading at the door of the heart for admittance, that He may come in to bring pardon and peace, and who taught His disciples: "Whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant." Matthew 20:27.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

The advancing centuries witnessed a constant increase of error in the doctrines put forth from Rome. Even before the establishment of the papacy the teachings of heathen philosophers had received attention and exerted an influence in the church. Many who professed conversion still clung to the tenets of their pagan philosophy, and not only continued its study themselves, but urged it upon others as a means of extending their influence among the heathen. Serious errors were thus introduced into the Christian faith. Prominent among these was the belief in man's natural immortality and his consciousness in death. This doctrine laid the foundation upon which Rome established the invocation of saints and the adoration of the Virgin Mary. From this sprang also the heresy of eternal torment for the finally impenitent, which was early incorporated into the papal faith.

Then the way was prepared for the introduction of still another invention of paganism, which Rome named purgatory, and employed to terrify the credulous and superstitious multitudes. By this heresy is affirmed the existence of a place of torment, in which the souls of such as have not merited eternal damnation are to suffer punishment for their sins, and from which, when freed from impurity, they are admitted to heaven." 62

to be continued

[skyblue888]

Still another fabrication was needed to enable Rome to profit by the fears and the vices of her adherents. This was supplied by the doctrine of indulgences. Full remission of sins, past, present, and future, and release from all the pains and penalties incurred, were promised to all who would enlist in the pontiff's wars to extend his temporal dominion, to punish his enemies, or to exterminate those who dared deny his spiritual supremacy. The people were also taught that by the payment of money to the church they might free themselves from sin, and also release the souls of their deceased friends who were confined in the tormenting flames. By such means did Rome fill her coffers and sustain the magnificence, luxury, and vice of the pretended representatives of Him who had not where to lay His head." 62

to be continued

[skyblue888]

The Scriptural ordinance of the Lord's Supper had been supplanted by the idolatrous sacrifice of the mass. Papal priests pretended, by their senseless mummery, to convert the simple bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Christ. With blasphemous presumption, they openly claimed the power to 'create their Creator.' All Christians were required, on pain of death, to avow their faith in this horrible, Heaven-insulting heresy. Multitudes who refused were given to the flames." 63

to be continued

[skyblue888]

In the thirteenth century was established that most terrible of all the engines of the papacy--the Inquisition. The prince of darkness wrought with the leaders of the papal hierarchy. In their secret councils, Satan and his angels presided, while unseen in the midst stood an angel of God, taking the fearful record of their iniquitous decrees, and writing the history of deeds too horrible to appear to human eyes. 'Babylon the great' was 'drunken with the blood of the saints.' The mangled forms of millions of martyrs cried to God for vengeance upon that apostate power.

Popery had become the world's despot. Kings and emperors bowed to the decrees of the Roman pontiff. The destinies of men, both for time and for eternity, seemed under his control. For hundreds of years the doctrines of Rome had been extensively and implicitly received, its rites reverently performed, its festivals generally observed. Its clergy were honored and liberally sustained. Never since has the Roman Church attained to greater dignity, magnificence, or power." 63,64.

[skyblue888]

But the noontide of the papacy was the midnight of the world. The Holy Scriptures were almost unknown, not only to the people, but to the priests. Like the Pharisees of old, the papal leaders hated the light which would reveal their sins. God's law, the standard of righteousness, having been removed, they exercised power without limit, and practiced vice without restraint. Fraud, avarice, and profligacy prevailed. Men shrank from no crime by which they could gain wealth or position. The palaces of popes and prelates were scenes of the vilest debauchery. Some of the reigning pontiffs were guilty of crimes so revolting that secular rulers endeavored to depose these dignitaries of the church as monsters too vile to be tolerated. For centuries Europe had made no progress in learning, arts, or civilization. A moral and intellectual paralysis had fallen upon Christendom." 64.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

The condition of the world under the Romish power presented a fearful and striking fulfillment of the words of the prophet Hosea: 'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee: . . . seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.' 'There is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.' Hosea 4:6, 1, 2. Such were the results of banishing the word of God." p.64,65.

End