Reprograming the mind, part deux

[Tom Wetmore]

As with forgiveness so it is with repentance...

[Gail]

Repentance seems like such an honoured thing to do in the Bible, yet it is so difficult to humble ourselves to do it!

[Tom Wetmore]

As with forgiveness, we too often think it is something we do for the one we have hurt. But it really is the gift we give to ourselves.

[Gail]

Well, I wouldn't discount what we do for the other person, too... I think that a word of kindness and trying to understand probably goes farther than the needling revenge thing.

[Gail]

But I like the concept! It works the opposite of what our egos want. It's a challenge but in my mind makes for a totally bigger person.

[Gail]

It takes courage...

[D. Allan]

Cannot repentance be accompanied with great sorrow? especially when reconcilation is no longer possible?

[Gail]

((( dAb ))) Great to see you today! :)

[Gail]

And... repentance very often feels sorrow

[teresaq]

I find it so. I think that is when it is true, or not superficial, tho a deeper realization may come with time.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, sorrow for the hurt inflicted, the pain caused, should be a very real part of repentance. And so true that if repentance comes where no reconciliation is possible, I agree that the depth of that sorrow is hard to heal. Knowing that my life has changed, that I have succeeded in turning things around for the better, should be sweet. But knowing that the one harmed cannot or will not also do their part to heal the relationship, makes it bitter sweet.

It is also bitter sweet to forgive without reciprocation, knowing that healing is not complete.

But part of the reprograming of the mind that comes from mending our side of the fence does give a peace of mind and begins to see the other party in a new and better light.

[Gail]

Re: What Tom said:

[D. Allan]

[teresaq]

Same here.

Thanking God for the situation helps also. Seems to free the mind.

[Overaged]

I would be interested to hear what people think the difference between repentance and confession is. They seem at first glance like they are the same thing, and to hear it in people's own words, would be of great interest to me. Not being able to quote in this forum may help some good thoughts to come out of this study.

[teresaq]

The way I understand it is, repentance is acknowledging my thinking/actions are wrong. It can be from superficial repentance to deep-down-to-the-bone repentance.

Confession is either acknowledging repentance, either to the one wronged or in general, or admitting something is true.

I think confession as used in the bible is somewhat different. I haven't really studied that out.

[cardw]

I find that listing what is required for repentance such as being really sorry and seeing the other side, etc sabotage the whole process because it's too self conscious.

I find that once people learn to empathize this whole process unfolds naturally. Empathy is the opposite of self-centeredness.

In my mind, the reason I don't want to be self-centered is because it makes me miserable. I'm not trying to be a good person because that is still being self-centered.

I stopped trying to be anything a long time ago because I find it a lot simpler to simply be me.

These stages of learning forgiveness and repentance are based on elementary world views. The act of practicing them reveals the fact that most of the things that hurt us are made up in our own minds.

People generally react out of some sort of fear and nothing is personal. The person that has to strut into the room is actually the most vulnerable person in the room because they are enslaved by their fear. And when they lash out to maintain their sense of worth it's not personal. It's fear.

When I am honest with myself and my own acts of fear and self-centeredness I have a choice. Most people are too afraid to engage in that kind of honesty and they suffer because they remain ignorant. They stay stuck in resentment and revenge because they believe everything is personal. In Christian terms this is confession. Most Christians miss out on the gift of confession because, again, they see it as a requirement to get sins taken off the books.

Too often forgiveness and repentance are seen as being a good person. They are simply practices that help people grow up. They loose their relevance once your world view shifts and one has to look at different methods for growth.

[teresaq]

And you claim not to be a Christian...hmmmm...

I can speak to repentance a bit from my own experience. The superficial kind is where I don't really think its wrong but someone else does.

The deep-down-to-the-bone kind is where I felt what I did to someone else as if it had been done to me. I felt their pain. Empathy, as you said. Feeling what another is feeling. Feeling exactly what another is feeling. I think that is where some get confused.

Knowing something is wrong because someone said so without realizing the actual pain they are causing that individual is not repentance. They don't care how much pain they are causing another because they can not, or will not, open themselves to feel that pain. As you said, it is all about self and what self wants, and by God nothing will stand in their way of getting it.

If convinced to give up a behavior it will be only briefly. They will resume the behavior given the least provocation or chance because they were not able to feel the pain they caused, nor care about the person.

Going from a deadened conscience can happen, but only if one chooses to feel.

[Overaged]

Yes; I believe you are correct about confession being intended a little differently in the Bible, than your example; but there are certainly similarities.

My understanding, in a nut-shell, is that confession has more to do with our faults, and repentance with specific sin/s.

I don't know if I would be considered radical for thinking of it like that; but it's how I currently understand it.

[Overaged]

I liked what you said here about some types of repentance being like behavior modification or temporary change of behavior.

Ha ha; I can think of times where I did that with my wife! She spotted it right away!

[teresaq]

I think if we are honest we all try to play that game, if I may.

Sadly to say we can also lose a deep down repentance if we don't keep that close walk with the Lord.

Oh, how we need the Lord!

[Overaged]

I agree that repentance is not the same without the Lord. How do you think He does it? Can we recognize when He does this? How?

[Tom Wetmore]

I like the point Rich makes about honesty. That is the heart of confession. Fear does drive dishonesty. We fear what may happen if we are vulnerable in self-disclosure of our own faults and mistakes. But being honest with ourselves is essential.

I have said many times there is no greater deception than self-deception. It is a hard nut to crack because it is a thick shell we create to protect our ego. We wear masks of acceptability. We are simply afraid of exposure. So often the truth is painfully obvious to others, just like the proverbial huge bird hiding its smallest part in the sand. It is the fig leaf of Eden. It does little to address the real problem, and comically covers the wrong parts.

And when honesty opens the door and the windows of the mind, empathy can happen. To honestly move in the direction of changing behavior that hurts others we have to stop the self-protective navel gazing and look out those open windows and step out of the door away from our self absorption.

The traditional approach of striving toward perfection of making oneself a good person is self-centered and will not trigger the necessary empathy that sees the effect of our actions on others. At its worst it is narcissistic. We have to be other-minded to change the world.

[teresaq]

[Overaged]

We have to be other-minded is the right way to say it.