Butt out...

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:ClubV12

the complexities and the particluars

Quote:ClubV12

Simple enough, start a new thread with the questions you seek answers to on the BASIC Sunday issue. It is well understood and accepted by Adventist prophecy students. I'll be glad to address those issues in that thread. Please, THIS thread is not the time or place for that discussion.

What is so complex or particular? I didn’t ask about “BASIC Sunday issues”. I asked for relevant supporting texts to the purport of

Natl Sunday Law.

Quote:

Quote:ClubV12

It is well understood and accepted by Adventist prophecy students.

Is that a complimentary statement?—given the “complexities” of the matter?—that it is beyond the ken of “the wicked...”

Good grief. That’s the apologetic?

“Just the texts, ma’am.” --Joe Friday, errr, I mean, jasd

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

.... just provide the texts that support such a radical extraction from Writ as Natl Sunday Law; for...

Quote:

Quote:John317

This has already been done many times before on the Forum. There are also many books that do the same. I'm sure you're not unaware of them.

I’ve been here since Feb ’05. Ain not seen the supporting construct on any thread. – only the casual purport flung about as though it were Biblically substantiated.

Am not asking for much – just the textual construct. Mebbe, a coupla two three texts.

(I did an advanced search for ‘National Sunday Law’ without a pertinent hit)

Quote:

Quote:John317

As Clubv12 has already said, this is not the place for doing that.

Aww, ClubV12 was just carping – as Natl Sunday Law was being used inherent to the thread as fact – and I asked for the pertinent texts... Bummer – the nerve that anyone should ask, eh?

I called anyone on it; that is, to substantiate it with texts – and everyone folded with this, that, or the other cavil – though it was done nicely enough...

[ClubV12]

I'm not a theologian, by any means. I'm sure there are many that could post considerably more detail than I on the subject. Here is my humble take on it...

I post the following not to specifically address jasd questions concerning Sunday laws, but for all who might read this. Some will reject and argue the points made and no amount of reason, logic, bible verses or discourse will change anything. Some may see and glimpse the warning here given and seek as for hidden treasure the truth that they might be prepared for the coming day of our Lord. Whose names will be written in the book of life and spared the great final war about to break upon us? Answer: Those that keep the commandments of God.

To understand the coming Sunday laws it is needful to review the original day of worship, the seventh day.

“And on the seventh day God ended his work that he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work that God created and made.” (Genesis 2:2,3.)

Fourth commandment says

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:..."

Exodus 20:8-11

God's holy day would be set aside by some power and in it's place would arise a false day of worship, Sunday.

Daniel 7:25

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”

The Papacy was that power that changed the day of worship.

We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. — Peter Geiermann, The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine(1957 ed.), p. 50.

The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a protestant, by virtue of her divine mission,

changed the day from Saturday to Sunday. — Catholic Mirror, official organ of Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

The observance of Sunday by the protestants is an homage they pay in spite of themselves to the authority of the [Catholic] Church. — Mgr. Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, Boston: Patrick Donahoe, 1868, page 225.

Daniel 7:26

“But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.”

Revelation 17:5

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

This verse describes a counterfeit church and her numerous counterfeit daughter churches. The Papacy makes this claim concerning ALL churches to the present day.

"I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church for the mother and mistress of all churches." — Art. 10, Creed of Pope Pius IV. Double Bull of Pope Pius IV, Nov. 13 and Dec. 9, 1564, trans. in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, New York: Harper, 1919, Vol. 1, p. 99.

This describes ALL churches that follow the Papacy order to worship on Sunday instead of the true Sabbath, Saturday.

Revelation 12:17 describes the true church.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Daniel 12:1

“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

This "war" of which Daniel and Revelation speak is between those who keep the commandments of God and those who have changed times and laws, specifically, the fourth commandment. From Saturday to Sunday, as acknowledged by the Papacy and followed by every Sunday keeping church since that change was made.

Since it's inception the Papacy has setup laws demanding Sunday worship, particularly through out the dark ages, as has the United States! This is a simple matter of historic fact. In 1798 it's (the Papacy) power was broken, but not abolished. Since 1929 the Papacy has continued to gain world wide power once again. History WILL BE repeated. The issue of the day or worship will once again be the deciding factor. Enforced by not only a National Sunday Law requiring the ceasation of work on Sunday but a WORLD WIDE Sunday law.

Which brings us back to Daniel 11 and the details of the scenario for how this will come about.

There is nothing new about "Sunday Laws". There is nothing knew about the battles that have raged over them in history. They have been around for centuries and have played a key roll in the "war" between the false church (those who DO NOT keep the commandments) and the true church (those that DO). The last great conflict (Daniel 11) centers around this concept and gives us the sure word of prophecy as to how it will play out.

[John317]

The mark of the beast is the mark of its power and authority. It is in direct contrast to the commandments of God. If a person keeps the commandments of God, including the Sabbath commandment, there is no way he will receive the mark of the beast. These two things are in direct opposition to each other. They are opposites just as the seal of God and the mark of the beast are opposites. It's significant that the Sabbath commandment contains the seal of God.

We know the identity of the beast-- the papacy-- and we know the pope has claimed that Sunday is a mark, or sign, of his authority. The Bible teaches plainly that the first and second beast will work together to enforce the mark of the first beast on the entire world.

[cheddar]

Club's post was fairly comprehensive, so this is just strictly from the bible.

The mark of the beast is tied directly to a number and that number is six hundred threescore and six.

This number is mentioned several times throughout the bible:

Quote:

Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold, 1 Kings 10:14

The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six. Ezra 2:13

And the residue of the families of the sons of Kohath had cities of their coasts out of the tribe of Ephraim. 1 Chron. 6:66

He turned the sea into dry land: they went through the flood on foot: there did we rejoice in him. Psalms 66:6

A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. Isa. 66:6

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. John 6:66

Four of these verses involve the temple – Solomon used the gold to build the 1st temple, the children of Adonikam returned from Babylonian exile with Ezra and Nehemiah to build the 2nd temple, the sons of Kohath were direct descendents of Levi and among the most important Levitical clans and the verse in Isaiah speaks of the Lords voice from his temple.

The last verse is the most solemn as it speaks to the last days when many followers of truth will abandon their faith and accept the mark.

[ClubV12]

I thought it was profound when Roosenberg mentioned the Muslims changed the day of worship from Saturday to FRIDAY. While the christians went from Saturday to Sunday. The evil doer doesn't care what day you acknowledge as the Lords day of worship, just as long as it isn't Saturday.

...interesting...

[John317]

For me too, Club.

Muslims don't see Friday in quite the same way as many Christian's see Sunday, though.

For instance, many Christians think of Sunday as the new Sabbath under the New Covenant. They consider Sunday as the Lord's Day and some believe it is wrong to work on Sunday. This was more common in the 1800s than it is now.

But Muslims have never viewed Friday as holy and as a day on which they shouldn't work. They merely stop work long enough for prayers and for going to the Mosque to worship, but then they can go right back to work.

Yet it doesn't really matter, because the main point is that Satan has successfully managed to get most of the world to forget the Sabbath of the Lord and to worship on other days other than the true Sabbath.

[ClubV12]

To add to Johns analysis of Friday "worship" for Muslims. It is my understanding that Friday is the day all MEN are called to the Mosque for prayer. I'm not sure there is any special service connected with this other than "prayer". This apparently ignores the women altogether. So their concept of "worship" differs significantly from our more traditional methods.

Question: In America Muslims meet at Mosques for some kind of service(s) and "sermons" are given? Anyone know how that works? Do they do this on Friday? Is a sermon a typical feature? Are women typically attending?

Considering the VERY large percentage of Muslims in the world I think it's reasonable to assume their will be a rich harvest of those folks who will accept Jesus as their Saviour. Perhaps it's time to take another look at the customs and methods of the more mainstream Muslim religion. About all we see is presented from the radical Muslim side of things. I understand there is a large variance in what Muslims believe, who they follow. The same could be said of christians, so many different beliefs and churches.

[jasd]

>>I'm not a theologian,<<

As, assuredly, no one other of us is – except in the remotest sense.

>>Those that keep the commandments of God.<<

Those, as elucidated upon by Jesus Christ – would be: The Two Great Commandments.

>>To understand the coming Sunday laws it is needful to review the original day of worship, the seventh day.

“And on the seventh day God ended his work that he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work that God created and made.” (Genesis 2:2,3.)

Fourth commandment says

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:..."

Exodus 20:8-11

God's holy day would be set aside by some power and in it's place would arise a false day of worship, Sunday.<< [ed.jasd]

“the coming Sunday laws” is that suppositional cart set before the horse.

“Set aside by some power” would be, chief among all others, Gd – Himself – per Holy Writ.

And incidentally,

1) “These facts are freely admitted by Jewish scholars. Rabbi

Louis Finklestein of the Jewish Theological Seminary of

America, was selected by the Kehillas (Jewish Communities)

of the World as one of the 120 top Jews who best

represented ‘a lamp of Judaism’ to the world. In a letter to

Dr. L. E. Froom, dated Feb. 20, 1939, Finklestein readily

admitted, ‘The present Jewish calendar was fixed in the

fourth century.’ Maimonides and most other Jewish

chronologers agree that the modern Jewish calendar is

based upon the ‘mean motions of the sun and moon, the true

[calendar] having been set aside.’ ” [ed.jasd]

You’ll notice that by admission – not only a day, but the entire OT calendar was set aside!

By the Vatican?—take a breath...

And we talk of ‘times’ and ‘laws’!—in the most prejudicial sense.

Though, per the above, the Jews having set aside the “true calendar” containing the reckoning of the Seventh-day Sabbath – how would that have made another day a “false day of worship” – there being an existing ‘void’, according to:

Hosea 2:11 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Hosea was prophet to the Northern Kingdom

Lam 2:6 ...the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Jeremiah was prophet to the Southern Kingdom.

Between the two prophets – Gd served notice upon the entirety of the COI that their Sabbaths (Seventh-day) were to cease and to be forgotten.

One, is constrained to thereafter Hosea and Jeremiah – find the ONE text which reinstated the Seventh-day Sabbath to either of the Kingdoms – or to anyone...

Gd declared that He removed the Seventh-day Sabbaths because the COI were polluting the Sabbaths before the heathen.

So, in that the Seventh-day Sabbath was removed – what text in Holy Writ states that man cannot sanctify a day holy unto Gd?—which is what happened. What text?

So, in recapping the above – it matters not in the least what the residue of the COI did or does as pertain the Sabbaths and their customs – the fact remains: Gd, per Hosea and Jeremiah, in the declarative – removed the Sabbaths from the reckoning of the two Kingdoms... the Sinaitic Covenant having long theretofore been abrogated.

...every word of Gd, every jot, every tittle - matters and is to be taken into account when expositing the word of Gd.

[jasd]

>>Daniel 7:25

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”<<

The contents of chapter 7 veritably screams ‘Latter Times’. I cannot understand the almost visceral need of some .orgs to appoint so many prophecies to the histories. Genetics?—fever on the brain?

Okay, let’s do a comparative exercise. Have not the Jews spoken ”great words” against Jesus Christ (the saints are given to Jesus Christ by His Father)?—and do they not continue so today? Doubtful?—read the Talmud.

>> shall wear out the saints of the most High<<

Continuing with the comparative exercise.

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate, Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combatting Counter-Revolution [the Cheka*] has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. –Winston Churchill, London Illustrated Sunday Herald; February 8, 1920

Note: that Churchill labeled those International Jews – “most part atheistical Jews”. Their counterparts today are more readily known as Zionists.

*Cheka went on to morph into the OGPU, then the NKVD, then MGB, the KGB, the FSB – all dreaded security apparatuses. (like Murder Inc. – you don’t know who we are, but we know you)

Do you recall the tens of millions of Orthodox Xtians killed by the ‘security apparatuses’ of the USSR?—more in the decades after the Revolution than in the centuries of Inquisition by the RCC – and that’s just in the USSR.

The question obtains: should the Zionists nee “atheistical Jew” gain the desired power – would they continue their pogrom against “the saints”?

(Zionists – are friends neither to Jews per se nor to Gentiles)

I’ve already mentioned in the above – wherein the Jews have changed ‘times’ (according to its meaning held by those of the .Org). They have, and will yet change ‘laws’ (according to its meaning held by those of the .Org) when they begin their sacrificial worship in the third Temple..., in its preparatory states – yet to be built.

What is said of Catholics and Jews can also be said of Chinese and Muslims – as well, other groups, ethnicities, and religions. It is a matter only of interpretation, construction, and how prophecy develops.

[ClubV12]

Ah yes,,,, the old "calendar" argument,,, your funny! :)

[jasd]

>>Ah yes,,,, the old "calendar" argument,,, your funny! <<

Yeah, funny - don't know how you track your days, weeks, months - but the rest of us are kinda dependant upon calendars...

otherwise, it's all whole cloth. Goin' South.

[jasd]

>>The Papacy was that power that changed the day of worship.<<

I’ve just showed in the above bolded quote that the Jews changed the entire calendar – Sabbaths, included. Though they continue in a seven-day cycle – they corrupted it. It is one of corruption – adhered to by certain .Orgs.

>>We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. — Peter Geiermann, The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine(1957 ed.), p. 50.<<

Show me the one text that prohibits anyone from sanctifying any day in which to worship Gd – in that He declared through His prophets Hosea and Jeremiah that He removed the calendrical reckoning of the Seventh-day Sabbath.

>>The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a protestant, by virtue of her divine mission,

changed the day from Saturday to Sunday. — Catholic Mirror, official organ of Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893<<

Read above.

>>The observance of Sunday by the protestants is an homage they pay in spite of themselves to the authority of the [Catholic] Church. — Mgr. Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, Boston: Patrick Donahoe, 1868, page 225.<<

Read above.

>>Daniel 7:26

“But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.”<<

I take it that by the above you mean the Pope/Papacy. You reference an interpretation that was wrested from a sealed book long before its unsealing. Wrested.

>>Revelation 17:5

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

This verse describes a counterfeit church and her numerous counterfeit daughter churches. The Papacy makes this claim concerning ALL churches to the present day.<<

“MYSTERY, BABYLON” is a “church”?—and if it is the Vatican – where is its MYSTERY?—Hyslop (Two Babylons) et al has, supposedly, denuded her MYSTERY, yes? Now, you want mystery – you try to understand today’s banking procedures...

I think that by careful study – you’ll find that both of the major religions of Babylon were Persian by origin.

If Gd intended to warn against the religion of Babylon He would instead, have warned against Persia.

The singularity that signifies Babylon is economic by nature. Today’s fractional reserve system our banks employ originated in Babylon. The 18th chapter of Revelation correlates Babylon to merchandise; that is commerce/economic industry.

>>The Papacy was that power that changed the day of worship.<<

I’ve just showed in the above bolded quote that the Jews changed the entire calendar – Sabbaths, included. Though they continue in a seven-day cycle – they corrupted it. It is one of corruption – adhered to by certain .Orgs.

>>We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. — Peter Geiermann, The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine(1957 ed.), p. 50.<<

Show me the one text that prohibits anyone from sanctifying any day in which to worship Gd – in that He declared through His prophets Hosea and Jeremiah that He removed the calendrical reckoning of the Seventh-day Sabbath.

[jasd]

Deleted - as this is a double post. Should I have done so mistakenly,

it is your loss :)

[John317]

I'm not sure there is any special service connected with this other than "prayer". This apparently ignores the women altogether. So their concept of "worship" differs significantly from our more traditional methods.

Question: In America Muslims meet at Mosques for some kind of service(s) and "sermons" are given? Anyone know how that works? Do they do this on Friday? Is a sermon a typical feature? Are women typically attending?

There's typically a sermon at the Mosque on Friday also, and the women are always separated from the men. The women are invited but they don't take part with the men in their worship or in the sermon.

[John317]

>>I'm not a theologian,<<

As, assuredly, no one other of us is except in the remotest sense.

>>Those that keep the commandments of God.<<

Those, as elucidated upon by Jesus Christ would be: The Two Great Commandments.

No, the entire Decalogue, called the Ten Commandments.

If we really love God and love our neighbor we will obey all of the Ten Commandments.

If you don't believe this, which of the Ten Commandments did Jesus mean for us to forget or ignore?

[jasd]

>>There's typically a sermon at the Mosque on Friday...<<

You've posted the above to the wrong thread

[John317]

ok, thanks. just answering #478765.

[jasd]

>>"I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church for the mother and mistress of all churches." — Art. 10, Creed of Pope Pius IV. Double Bull of Pope Pius IV, Nov. 13 and Dec. 9, 1564, trans. in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, New York: Harper, 1919, Vol. 1, p. 99.

This describes ALL churches that follow the Papacy order to worship on Sunday instead of the true Sabbath, Saturday.<<

Oh, I see. You think that the use of a word singularly applied in the one instance – limits any other use elsewhere to – equivalent meaning... That’s not how it works.

Otherwise, it is fact that, as far as we know, all Xtian churches trace their origins to the RCC. (Banks also have ‘daughters’, I also... ;-)

Some years back the Pope sent representatives to Indonesia attempting to persuade the Govt to change their nepotistic rule to one having greater representation by the people. The Papal legate was sent packing, having been given the brush-off. Butt out.

Several months later, representatives from the IMF called upon the president of Indonesia with the same goal – and a month later the Govt was overturned.

I ask, wherein was power?—with the church or with the money interests?

I don’t apologize for Catholicism. They have done horrible things and may yet do more horrible things, given the authority...; however, before one bears false witness against another – he or she ought to be very cautious that he or she knows whereof he or she speaks.

>>Revelation 12:17 describes the true church.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."<<

No one keeps the commandments as specified by Jesus Christ. Even your thoughts sin against the Gd and the Decalogue. That said, no one confesses Jesus Christ more than the Pope and his fellow Catholics – even believing that the Eucharist transmutes to the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

Do you confess Jesus Christ to that degree?—I doubt it.

>>Daniel 12:1

“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

This "war" of which Daniel and Revelation speak is between those who keep the commandments of God and those who have changed times and laws, specifically, the fourth commandment. From Saturday to Sunday, as acknowledged by the Papacy and followed by every Sunday keeping church since that change was made.<< [ed/jasd]

Ummm,

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

>>and those who have changed times and laws, specifically, the fourth commandment.<<

I believe the text (Dan 7:25) states the “he shall think to change times and laws”. Yet, you charge that the Pope/Papacy did, in fact, change “times and laws”. That negates your argument that the one who shall think to change is the Pope/Papacy.

You don’t think that, mebbe, what is being spoken of – are literal/physical ‘times and laws’?

[John317]

>>Revelation 12:17 describes the true church.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."<<

No one keeps the commandments as specified by Jesus Christ. Even your thoughts sin against the Gd and the Decalogue. That said, no one confesses Jesus Christ more than the Pope and his fellow Catholics &#150; even believing that the Eucharist transmutes to the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

That verse is not claiming that people will keep the commandments of God with absolute perfection.

It is saying it in the same sense that 1 John 2 says it:

1 John 2:3-4

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

It's referring to the fact that before Christ returns, there will be a people who teach that God wants all humans to obey the entire Decalogue, which are the commandments of God, or the law of God.With the holy Spirit in our lives we are enabled to keep the commandments of God. See 1 John 1: 5-10 and 2: 1-6.

Exodus 20:6

but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Mark 10:19

You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.' "

Exodus 31:18

And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 34:28

So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Romans 13:9

The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

1 Cor. 7:19

For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.

1 Cor. 9:21

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

[jasd]

>>From Saturday to Sunday, as acknowledged by the Papacy and followed by every Sunday keeping church since that change was made.<<

It was done only in an existential manner – as I’ve already proffered the texts in Hosea and Lamentations that Gd caused the cessation and forgetting of the OT Seventh-day Sabbaths. There remained thereafter,

a void only – to be filled by the worshipful who would sanctify a day unto the Lord – as though upon a tabula rasa.

It may have been providential in that Creation is a repeatable thing; whereas, there could have been only the one time Jesus Christ was sacrificed for our redemption. Should He have failed in His walk upon earth and sinned – well, it was a one-shot deal – and Sunday memorializes that fact.

>>Since it's inception the Papacy has setup laws demanding Sunday worship, particularly through out the dark ages, as has the United States! This is a simple matter of historic fact.<<

Did it not have authority to do so?

>>In 1798 it's (the Papacy) power was broken, but not abolished. Since 1929 the Papacy has continued to gain world wide power once again. History WILL BE repeated. The issue of the day or worship will once again be the deciding factor. Enforced by not only a National Sunday Law requiring the ceasation of work on Sunday but a WORLD WIDE Sunday law.<<

The absolute assurance of this assertion is what compelled me to enquire after the Biblical texts which would affirm this purport. Even given the texts provided above – there still lacks the substantive construct to make it so – and attempting to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear re the matter leaves only a dog chew – sans any purse. [/pardon straightforwardness]

>>Which brings us back to Daniel 11 and the details of the scenario for how this will come about.<<

Which brings the next question: how is it established in Writ that the King of the North is the Papacy?

>>There is nothing new about "Sunday Laws". There is nothing knew about the battles that have raged over them in history.<<

That’s your best argument: History Repeats.

>>They have been around for centuries and have played a key roll in the "war" between the false church (those who DO NOT keep the commandments) and the true church (those that DO). The last great conflict (Daniel 11) centers around this concept and gives us the sure word of prophecy as to how it will play out.<<

Y’alls keep pinging upon “false” and “true” – thems v us. Writ preaches ‘unity’, or in today’s vernacular, ‘ecumenicity’ – and St Paul preaches, “Christ and Him crucified” – that’s IT! Nuthin’ ‘bout

liturgical or sacramental protocols. Moreover, Jesus Christ said to do what issues form

“Moses’ Seat”. Where’s that? Who holds it? Has it expired? For sure? Tradition

or Sola Scriptura? Is it Biblical?

[John317]

...That said, no one confesses Jesus Christ more than the Pope and his fellow Catholics even believing that the Eucharist transmutes to the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

But that is not a true confession, is it?

Do you believe that the human priest is able to create the body and blood of Christ in the Mass? That Jesus is sacrificed in an "unbloody sacrifice" on the table? This, of course, is the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

[John317]

...Which brings the next question: how is it established in Writ that the King of the North is the Papacy?

By a close comparison of the text with the events of history.

The papacy is also the man of lawlessness, the sea-beast of Rev. 13, and the little-horn power of Daniel 7 & 8.

Of course, the king of the North is not always the papacy. This identity changes in Daniel 11.

Have you watched the 3 videos that ClubV12 posted earlier?

[John317]

...Y alls keep pinging upon false and true thems v us. Writ preaches unity, or in today's vernacular, ecumenicity and St Paul preaches, Christ and Him crucifiedthats IT!

But this unity must be brought about by the Holy Spirit and it must be unity on the basis of truth, not false doctrines.

For instance, we can't unite on the idea of Sunday keeping or in belief in the immortality of the soul. Those things are opposed to the truth of Scripture and are based in church tradition. We couldn't expect God to bless such unity, could we?

[ClubV12]

I kind of liked bringing the Muslims into this, the other issue (Sunday vs Sabbath) has been beat to death (including the whole calendar issue).

...carry on...

Oh, well I KNOW the ladies are separate from the men. But I THINK the whole Friday thing is that MEN are expected (social pressure) to attend but women are not. They can if they want sort of thing (on Fridays). That may vary depending on the individual group of believers and what country their in.