Could the United States government became a Fascist regime?

[Alchemy]

Could the United States government became a Fascist regime?

It almost happened in the 1930's.

http://www.carpenoctem.tv/cons/whitehouse.html

[Dr. Shane]

The FDR Administration had a lot of fascist qualities to it.

[Gerr]

Could the United States government became a Fascist regime?

It almost happened in the 1930's.

http://www.carpenoctem.tv/cons/whitehouse.html

Fascist? I doubt it. Authoritarian? Yes! SDA understanding of the lamb-like beast of Rev 13 is that it represents the USA who will someday: cause "all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name."

The Holy Bible: English standard version. 2001 (Re 13:16–17). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

[ClubV12]

I suspect different people will call it different things, but authoritarian works well.

Some will call it fascist, others communist, socialist, pick a name, any name, and don't forget to blame Bush when it happens.

We will STILL be a "Republic" though, as we are now. A Republic is based on the rule of law, not the majority or minority or public opinion, but strictly law. Ya got to have a trial before you hang the guy the angry mob is trying to lynch. Since it is a Sunday LAW, it's enforced by the authority of the Republic system of Government. Under this structure it's all legal. While "moral considerations" do lead to laws, for the safety and benefit of society, once a law is passed, the moral aspects are disregarded. Prosecutors prosecute, thats what they do, based on law, not their personal feelings or their moral position. Judges will dismiss your biblical, moral, logical, reasonable "arguments" in favor of strictly law.

Because it will be a Federal law, Federal sentencing guidelines will apply. Under current law it is extremely difficult, or impossible, for a Federal Judge to ignore them. The minimum sentence is mandatory. Break the Sunday law, go to jail, simple as that, or face execution when that time comes around.

[skyblue888]

When Sunday shall be enforced in the US, that country will no longer be a republic. The Constitution will have to have been amended or totally ignored in order to pass such a law. The people of the US have been brain-washed for decades as the media and even the politicians talk of the US as a democracy. A democracy and a republic are not the same thing.

sky

[ClubV12]

Maybe it will take an amendmant, maybe not. I think "totally ignored" is more likely.

Many consider Obama's health care law un-constitutional, but for the most part it remains law never the less. It takes a LONG time to reach the Supreme Court. I believe the Sunday law will be based on legal precedents that come before it. National laws challenged as un-constitutional that may or may not survive a Supreme Court ruling, but in the meantime they are "law" never the less. Congress could pass a Sunday law, constitutional or not, based on quasi legal precedence that came before it. And then simply wait, for what could be years, for it to be challenged at the Supreme Court level. Meanwhile, it's still law and enforecable. Public employees like police, Judges and prosecutors would have no choice but to enforce it as a result.

When you come to court, arguing for your "rights" won't carry any weight. Your "rights" are defined by law.

[miz3]

The FDR Administration had a lot of fascist qualities to it.

FDR and his more damaging predecessor Woodrow Wilson were NOT Fascists. They were socialist-marxist-leninist who believed in an extremist view of a god-like central government who would dole out its favors to whom ever it pleased. Such ones pretend to be for the "common worker" but are instead the masters of the worst kind of slavery. In other words put everyone the same "level" however it does not work out that way. It tends to put most in poverty and a small few in luxurious privilege.

Fascist types are just a slightly different form of "strong centralism" and are also slave-masters. The major difference between Fascism and socialist-marxist-leninist types is that Fascism allows selected private enterprises to prosper as long as they support the strong central government. Socialist-marxist-leninist types want no free enterprise whatsoever by making everyone the "same" that is everyone is a "slave to the deity-central-power.

Both forms are strongly opposed to "Freedom" of the individual citizen and they believe that "strong centralism" has the answers as opposed to the power and the answer residing in the "individual citizen".

That is the any power (if there is any) a person or group may have is derived from the "central structure".

The genius of the American Revolution was:

1. God gives inalienable rights to individuals humans.

2. Government derives its power from the governed.

[Alchemy]

I agree that are government will be at least a Republic when the Sunday Law is passed. Although, I am still amazed at how people accept the talk from our presidents that we are a democracy.

[olger]

For years we have assumed that the republican or conservative movement would usher in the time of the end. The last two years, however, have revealed a coercive power within the democrat/liberal bastion that rivals or exceeds our preconceptions. The unusual oppressions of the EPA and TSA upon the citizens of America is a harbinger of the oppressions that will gather upon the citizens of heaven.

[Alchemy]

For years we have assumed that the republican or conservative movement would usher in the time of the end. The last two years, however, have revealed a coercive power within the democrat/liberal bastion that rivals or exceeds our preconceptions. The unusual oppressions of the EPA and TSA upon the citizens of America is a harbinger of the oppressions that will gather upon the citizens of heaven.

From what I remember from Sister White's writings, there is plenty to be done from both major political parties in the USA. We are just now seeing the labor unions talking like dragons again.

[Gerr]

Just as the right (Pharisees) and the left (Saducees) conspired against Truth in the time of Jesus and the early church, they will do so again in the end.

[miz3]

For years we have assumed that the republican or conservative movement would usher in the time of the end. The last two years, however, have revealed a coercive power within the democrat/liberal bastion that rivals or exceeds our preconceptions. The unusual oppressions of the EPA and TSA upon the citizens of America is a harbinger of the oppressions that will gather upon the citizens of heaven.

You nailed it.

SDA have been against the "evangelicals" for decades because of their fear while all the time cozening up to the pagan left.

[Neil D]

Could the United States government became a Fascist regime?

It almost happened in the 1930's.

http://www.carpenoctem.tv/cons/whitehouse.html

[CoAspen]

Are you trying to po-po peoples favorite fantasies? Good luck!!

[John317]

When Sunday shall be enforced in the US, that country will no longer be a republic. The Constitution will have to have been amended or totally ignored in order to pass such a law. The people of the US have been brain-washed for decades as the media and even the politicians talk of the US as a democracy. A democracy and a republic are not the same thing.

I agree.

Quote:

Laws enforcing the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath will bring about a national apostasy from the principles of republicanism upon which the government has been founded. The religion of the papacy will be accepted by the rulers, and the law of God will be made void.--7MR 192 (1906). {LDE 132.1}

[John317]

FDR and his more damaging predecessor Woodrow Wilson were NOT Fascists. They were socialist-marxist-leninist who believed in an extremist view of a god-like central government who would dole out its favors to whom ever it pleased.

There were socialist/fascist tendencies in the FDR Administration, and there were some socialists in it, but to say that Wilson and FDR were Marxist-Leninist is inaccurate and misleading.

Here is Marxism-Leninism, which anyone can see is not a description of FDR or Wilson:

Quote:

Marxism–Leninism is a communist ideology, officially based upon the theories of Marxism and Vladimir Lenin, that promotes the development and creation of international communist society through the leadership of a vanguard party over a revolutionary socialist state that represents a dictatorship of the proletariat. Marxist-Leninist society seeks to purge anything considered bourgeois, idealist, or religious from it.[2] It supports the creation of a totalitarian single-party state. It rejects political pluralism external to communism, claiming that the proletariat need a single, able political party to represent them and exercise political leadership. The Marxist-Leninist state forbids opposition to itself and its ideology. Through the policy of democratic centralism, the communist party is the supreme political institution of the Marxist-Leninist state.

Marxism-Leninism is a far-left ideology. It is based on principles of class conflict, egalitarianism, dialectical materialism and rationalism, as well as social progress. It is anti-bourgeois, anti-capitalist, anti-conservative, anti-fascist, anti-imperialist, anti-liberal, anti-reactionary, is opposed to revisionism of Marxism, and is opposed to bourgeois democracy.

The Marxism-Leninist state utilizes a centrally planned state socialist economy. It supports public ownership of the economy and supports the confiscation of almost all private property that becomes public property administered by the state, while a minuscule portion of private property is allowed to remain. It typically replaces the role of market in the capitalist economy with centralized state management of the economy that is known as a command economy. However an alternative Marxist-Leninist economy that exists is the market socialist economy that has been used by the People's Republic of China, and historically by the People's Republic of Hungary and the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

See entire wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism

[ClubV12]

Oh I think there will be plenty of "Republicans" still proclaiming we are a "republic", even while they pass laws leading UP to a Sunday law, that fly in the face of the Nation being a "republic"! Perhaps they will STILL claim this country remains a republic even after the Sunday law.

The issue will certainly be "agitated". Brought to the attention of the people, filling the news, radio, TV, print while the issue is hotly debated. As the survivalist's head for the hills with another case of ammunition. As people consider the financial state of things and the "Federal Take Over". As Adventist consider how their going to leave the cities, where will they go? How will they get there? What will they take?

What we "are", what we call ourselves, will pale in comparison as to what will be taking place around us.

[John317]

SDA have been against the "evangelicals" for decades because of their fear while all the time cozening up to the pagan left.

"Some SDAs" would be more accurate.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

FDR and his more damaging predecessor Woodrow Wilson were NOT Fascists. They were socialist-marxist-leninist who believed in an extremist view of a god-like central government who would dole out its favors to whom ever it pleased.

There were socialist/fascist tendencies in the FDR Administration, and there were some socialists in it, but to say that Wilson and FDR were Marxist-Leninist is inaccurate and misleading.

Here is Marxism-Leninism, which anyone can see is not a description of FDR or Wilson:

Quote:

Marxism–Leninism is a communist ideology, officially based upon the theories of Marxism and Vladimir Lenin, that promotes the development and creation of international communist society through the leadership of a vanguard party over a revolutionary socialist state that represents a dictatorship of the proletariat. Marxist-Leninist society seeks to purge anything considered bourgeois, idealist, or religious from it.[2] It supports the creation of a totalitarian single-party state. It rejects political pluralism external to communism, claiming that the proletariat need a single, able political party to represent them and exercise political leadership. The Marxist-Leninist state forbids opposition to itself and its ideology. Through the policy of democratic centralism, the communist party is the supreme political institution of the Marxist-Leninist state.

Marxism-Leninism is a far-left ideology. It is based on principles of class conflict, egalitarianism, dialectical materialism and rationalism, as well as social progress. It is anti-bourgeois, anti-capitalist, anti-conservative, anti-fascist, anti-imperialist, anti-liberal, anti-reactionary, is opposed to revisionism of Marxism, and is opposed to bourgeois democracy.

The Marxism-Leninist state utilizes a centrally planned state socialist economy. It supports public ownership of the economy and supports the confiscation of almost all private property that becomes public property administered by the state, while a minuscule portion of private property is allowed to remain. It typically replaces the role of market in the capitalist economy with centralized state management of the economy that is known as a command economy. However an alternative Marxist-Leninist economy that exists is the market socialist economy that has been used by the People's Republic of China, and historically by the People's Republic of Hungary and the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

I didn't say that Wilson and FDR achieved their goal. They were very much marxist-lenists and wanted to push this country toward that "utopia".

They did a lot for which we are paying for now. The Democratic Party of today has bought into the whole marxist-lenist ways. Such ones are the home sweet home of every atheist, agnostic, evolutionist, etc. And the SDA Church has aligned itself albeit unofficially with this godless left and the Democratic Party because of their "sunday law fear" of the evangelicals. One example is to look at the Religious Liberty arm of the SDA Church.

It is this godless left that is really the force that will take away our freedoms and they have demonstrated such by removing God from every vestige of our society. You in California ought to know this more than most yet you blindly align yourself with this "separation of church and state" pagan principle.

The political left of America has always been marxist-lenist at its very soul. The upheavals of the 1960s were led by the children who grew up with FDR and learned his ways and those like Alinsky etc. from that same period. Every marxist-lenist entity that ever had power oppressed the Christian including SDA. Just ask the SDA in Russia, China, Vietnam, etc.

Such leftist philosophies are always pagan and as such have always been against God's People. SDA have a real problem in this regard because you have aligned yourself with the enemy of God and you have aided and abetted this enemy as much as your little heart could do.

[John317]

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

[John317]

.... And the SDA Church has aligned itself albeit unofficially with this godless left and the Democratic Party because of their "sunday law fear" of the evangelicals. One example is to look at the Religious Liberty arm of the SDA Church.

Loma Linda is largely SDA and has always been Republican.

Originally Posted By: miz3

The political left of America has always been marxist-lenist at its very soul.

I can agree that it has strong socialist leanings, but the left has not always been Marxist-Leninist.

If you can't spell it, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised if you don't understand it.

There are some on the Left who are Marxist-Leninist, but they are a minority, and they wouldn't be in the Democratic Party. Marxist-Leninists hate the Democratic Party even more than they hate the Republican party, and merely use it for their own ends.

Originally Posted By: miz3

.... Every marxist-lenist entity that ever had power oppressed the Christian including SDA. Just ask the SDA in Russia, China, Vietnam, etc.

Of course, but that is different from saying the Democratic Party is Marxist-Leninist. I believe President Obama is socialist and that he was heavily influenced by Marxism, but he is definitely not a Leninist.

You need to study up on Marxism-Leninism if you think Obama is a Marxist-Leninist or if you think the Democratic Party is. Marxism-Leninism is the belief that Marxism/socialism must be spread throughout the world by violent revolution.

[John317]

Please show documentation that FDR and Wilson had Marxist-Leninist goals.

Originally Posted By: miz3

There are many books on the subject you can go read them.

Then you should be able to find at least one quote among all those books which supports your position.

I've spent a life-time studying the subject of Marxism and the history fo the US, and I have never seen one shred of evidence that FDR and Wilson had Marxist-Leninist goals.

See some of my pictures from covering socialist/communist/Marxist protests and demonstrations:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/galleries/385735/Denver_August_2008.html#comments

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/370/1/Photos_by_John317.html

If you seriously believe that there are many books that teach what you are saying, you should be able to name at least one or two books that contain the evidence that FDR and Wilson had Marxist-Leninist goals.

[miz3]

Loma Linda is largely SDA and has always been Republican.

I doubt you can document this. If you can then I insist that you must. Can you prove it?

Secondly, even if we all Loma Linda is Republican that is merely a very small element of the NA SDA Chruch.

Can you prove your statement and if you cannot prove it then will you delete your own post?

[John317]

I've lived there most of my life. Check it out on the Net.