Administrators Gail Posted October 24, 2011 Administrators Posted October 24, 2011 Is there such a thing as death by doctrine? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
ClubV12 Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Spiritual or earthly death? eh eh, right back at ya. :) Quote
olger Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 What would you chisel on the gravestone? "Wash your hands!" ??? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
CoAspen Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 I'm sure you asked the question in seriousness and I think there are many examples down through history, even up to the moment. Did not Christ fight and speak against such in His day? Something about 'sounding cymbals with out love'? I am sure people would want to say 'not if it is true doctrine', but their in lies the problem, whom is going to define 'true' doctrine? The Pharisees tried it, where did that get them? No love! They were afraid of God, did not love their fellow man and yet had doctrine down to a fine detail. Death by doctrine, absolutely!! Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 OK, I think your referring to spiritual death CoAspen. Doctrine, misunderstood and misapplied can lead to depression and premature earthly death. We all know the bad impact depression has on our physical bodies for instance. Judas comes to mind, he got pretty depressed over the whole thing. Peter denied Christ and he got pretty depressed as well. Judas never recovered, Peter learned to deal with it and became stronger. Stephen was stonded to death for his belief in doctrine! Doctrine is a double edged sword, it can give us a better, happier more healthy life when we apply it correctly. The more we know about "doctrine" the healthier we can become, basic health laws for example. The children of Israel were happier and healtheir for their advanced knowledge in that area. Ignoring various spiritual doctrines, on the other hand, caused massive death for those people. Both in the spiritual and the earthly realm. Nothings really changed, we have a LOT of knowledge today concerning health, or as it might be called "doctrine". That double edged sword continues to invite greater health, or promotes death. Quote
12tribes Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 Doctrine can be good or bad but what ever the doctrine it must lead us to Christ. Hebrews 12:2 (2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Revelation 1:1 (1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Quote Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Moderators John317 Posted October 25, 2011 Moderators Posted October 25, 2011 Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. The Bible doesn't talk about death by doctrine but it does talk about people dying because of a lack of the word of God. We need every word of the Bible. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 Doctrines are the holdings of human persons. The question is, is the doctrine supported by the Bible, God's Word? It is around this that everything revolves. To me the most important question is, how well do you know the Author of all things including the Bible? Quote
Woody Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 I'm sure you asked the question in seriousness and I think there are many examples down through history, even up to the moment. Did not Christ fight and speak against such in His day? Something about 'sounding cymbals with out love'? I am sure people would want to say 'not if it is true doctrine', but their in lies the problem, whom is going to define 'true' doctrine?The Pharisees tried it, where did that get them? No love! They were afraid of God, did not love their fellow man and yet had doctrine down to a fine detail. Death by doctrine, absolutely!! Excellent Answer. I see CoA is still at the top of the class. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
ClubV12 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 Love is also doctrine. It to can be delivered in a Pharisitcal way, or witheld for fear we might offend someone. Or miss interpreted as to it's meaning. Any extreme position can lead to death. Quote
Parade Orange Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 to some LOVE may be a doctrine a mental assent a paragraph in a bible but my experience is that LOVE springs up from the heart and GOD is LOVE everything He does springs up from that its bigger than words and it wins over the hearts thats powerful GOD calls us to know HIS love and that in turn gives love to each other without expecting anything in return its not a theory it drives CHRISTIANITY Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Administrators Gail Posted October 25, 2011 Author Administrators Posted October 25, 2011 Wow- such GREAT feedback! I agree with the compliment to CoAspen, but they are all better than I expected! Glad to see that LOVE is a big part- considered doctrine in itself and a base for doctrine. Keep it up! :) Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Gail Posted October 25, 2011 Author Administrators Posted October 25, 2011 I got the idea for it from "death by chocolate" of course, and that just popped into my head. The idea is of something that is good in itself that goes bad somehow. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
miz3 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 to some LOVE may be a doctrinea mental assent a paragraph in a bible but my experience is that LOVE springs up from the heart and GOD is LOVE everything He does springs up from that its bigger than words and it wins over the hearts thats powerful GOD calls us to know HIS love and that in turn gives love to each other without expecting anything in return its not a theory it drives CHRISTIANITY Not necessarily disagreeing with you Parade Orange but which is greater God or Love? I am asking this question not to take the thread in a different direction but as an addition to it. Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Gail says, "...something that is good in itself that goes bad somehow." For many, if not most, there is a simple answer for that. They become weary of having to abide by the doctrines, the law if you would, (not my opinion, it's what Sister White had to say on the issue). It simply is to much trouble, it conflicts with other things they want to do in life. Another significant aspect of this is that they worry about what other people will think of them. All this leads to depression, even fear, which if allowed to continue leads to health problems. High blood pressure, heart disease, etc. A vicious circle. You CAN'T live like that, you HAVE to stop the cycle, your mind is incapable of dealing with such a profound conflict. You see the doctrines and it incites fear. To remove the fear, you remove the doctrines. There is of course a solution, but I'm off to a bible study so my thoughts on that will have to wait... Quote
Robert Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 which is greater God or Love? God is love. Love is who God is..... Quote
miz3 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 which is greater God or Love? God is love. Love is who God is..... I agree. Thus, no matter what God actually does it is an expression of Love. Thus, when God kills it is an act of Love. When God is Jealous it is an act of Love. I am done because I am getting away from Gail's OP I think. Quote
CoAspen Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Quote: doctrine |noun a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group: Quote: noun creed, credo, dogma, belief, teaching, ideology; tenet, maxim, canon, principle, precept. Hmmmm..., I see doctrine and love as being very different. If God is love, how can we call Him a doctrine? I believe 'doctrine' is a human concept, love is an attribute of God. Quote: noun |attribute a quality or feature regarded as a characteristic or inherent part of someone or something: Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Doctrine: a set of beliefs held and taught by the church; Like Sabbath being the designated day of worship. I see that as a reflection of Gods character, an insight as to who He is, what He is about, how He works, what He believes, what He does, a description of Him. Doctrine, to me, says "test of faith", a requirement to be a member of a certain group. That is different than "fundamental beliefs", not all of which are necessarily doctrine in the sense of a "test of faith". Sabbath is a doctrine, a test of faith, how you APPLY the doctrine varies from one person to the next. But certain minimum standards apply to all members of the group as it concerns that particular doctrine. Beyond absolute doctrine and fundamental beliefs there are "suggested guidelines". Most Adventists, for instance, don't eat meat (just a guess on my part, I don't know how accurate that statement is actually). It's not a doctrine, it's not even a fundamental belief. Perhaps what Gail, CoAspen, others are really referring to are these "suggested guidelines"? Are we being "guidelined to death", (death being figurative rather than literal)? Suggested lifestyle guidelines presented, as it were, verily "doctrine". Quote
Moderators LynnDel Posted October 26, 2011 Moderators Posted October 26, 2011 Yes, Club V12, doctrine or guidelines in that sense are the same as laws and can end up in legalism if misapplied. LD Quote LD
ClubV12 Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 ...looks like everyone picked up their 10 foot pole and quietly backed away from this thread! Quote
D. Allan Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 .........haven't attended church for a while. i couldn't take it anymore when one would disagree with the pastor by shouting out their disagreement from the pews during the sermon. (seems to me like that showed no love for the pastor or the congregation - but only an overly strong love of doctrine.) don't miss doctrine but do miss the fellow ship. I like the motto of the United Church of Christ, "We agree to disagree." Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
Administrators Gail Posted October 28, 2011 Author Administrators Posted October 28, 2011 Well you know you are ALWAYS missed here!! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators John317 Posted October 28, 2011 Moderators Posted October 28, 2011 Hmmmm..., I see doctrine and love as being very different. If God is love, how can we call Him a doctrine? I believe 'doctrine' is a human concept, love is an attribute of God. Doctrine means "teaching." One teaching, or doctrine, of the Bible is that God loves everyone and so should we. Doctrine asks, how can we claim to love God if we hate or mistreat those whom God made in His image? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
D. Allan Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Quote: Well you know you are ALWAYS missed here!! Thank you, Gail. You have a big heart. Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
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