SDA pastor showcased as porn addict

[Dr. Shane]

Clinton - I think of a brilliant politition that sadly took a lot of flack for getting caught doing what I would bet almost every other president has done.

The same could be said about Nixon but history is not likely to remember either so favorably. Should the world last another 100 years, the only thing the history books will teach students about Clinton will be his sexual indiscretion. Olger has that right.

[Dr. Shane]

Some folks will have to leave the internet totally alone for a period of time.

No need to leave the internet. If you are prone to look at porn sites, there are porn filters that can be installed on your computer.

[ClubV12]

"Drug addicts" WILL find a way to get their fix. They WILL find a way around the filters.

I used to smoke cigars,,, when someone says Clinton, I always wonder what brands of cigar he liked.

Now, ya got your Burqa, and then ya got Waikiki beach and all the "island" beauty covered in tropical oils. Can we find some middle ground here? :)

[Dr. Shane]

"Drug addicts" WILL find a way to get their fix. They WILL find a way around the filters.

I was talking about paying for a porn filter to keep yourself from being exposed to porn. Obviously if someone wants to give themselves over to an addiction, they will do that with or without a filter. But that is not the context we are discussing. We are talking about someone that wants to break free and is even willing to give up the use of a computer to do so. For that type of person, porn filters have been shown to work.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Clinton - I think of a brilliant politition that sadly took a lot of flack for getting caught doing what I would bet almost every other president has done.

The same could be said about Nixon but history is not likely to remember either so favorably. Should the world last another 100 years, the only thing the history books will teach students about Clinton will be his sexual indiscretion. Olger has that right.

Oh absolutely. Not disagreeing with that at all. I just think its disapointing.

[ClubV12]

I see your point Shane and it's based on someone that wants to give up the computer and install the software. But I'm thinking about those who will say that, and appear to cooperate, but their will is to weak, they WILL find away.

What to do? I believe some folks need to get into a "clinic" of some kind. Like the Betty Ford Clinic for alcohol or drugs or whatever it is they do there. Like they need to go to a place where the computer has a literal lock and key and they cannot get access. Like jail,,, if they don't figure it how their problem is impacting their life before it's to late. I don't much about the 12 step but it appears to be mostly for those who are motivated to help themselves. Some folks just aren't capable of that. I don't know what options are available for the really hard core addicts, especially as it concerns Adventist places of recovery.

Ellen Whites counsel to get out of the cities takes on new meaning. From the folks I've met that live in the country around here, internet access is pretty slow and even spotty, assuming you can get it at all! Just following Sister Whites counsel in all regards will do wonders to combat this problem. Throw out the TV, get off the computer, plant a garden, read a book, change your diet, get some fresh air, avoid stimulating foods (like meat), etc. etc. The Testimonies are staggering in their very real world advice on how to be overcomers in all aspects of spiritual, physical and mental health.

[Gail]

This problem is becoming so out in the open lately that I wonder if there is a family that is NOT affected :(

[ClubV12]

The more I study the more convinced I become there are SO many good reasons to get out of even the small town I'm living in. The more I see Sister Whites counsel is applicable in SO many aspects of life, porn is the tip of the ice berg. ALL familiers are impacted by sin of some kind or another. We HAVE the solutions, the counsel, the solid advice right at our finger tips.

Much of what I am learing I can't even TALK about with anybody!!! As soon as you approach any question of reform out come the "legalism" comments, that was for her time, doesn't apply to us, we can't move to fast, quit your preaching, the list is endless. Well "excuusseeee me" for seeing the beauty in the counsel and scratching my head over how folks who grew up in this church missed it by a mile and half.

I'm looking for property in the country. I'm not getting out of the city, I'm getting out of a SMALL town which has to much "city" for optimum spiritual growth from what I can see. The plan is to "work" this small town from an outpost, I'm not abandoning the city, I'm regrouping for the attack.

I'd like to be able to have a place where folks that need serious help CAN come and find some shelter to grow stronger. Away from the temptations of the small town, let alone the big city. As the Lord leads, I'm going to do this, actually follow and incorporate the "blue print". Making more preparation each day, somebodys gotta do it, it CAN be done, it WILL be done.

...might not be able to get much internet out there, enjoy my company while you can (as some breath a sigh of relief we won't have to deal with THAT guy much longer). :)

[Gail]

Yes, reform is a tough word for some. No one likes to be corrected.

But don't let that stop you from doing whatever the Lord has impressed upon you. When our eyes are focused on everyone else and what they are doing it becomes easy to criticise and judge. But you can live out victories yourself and then you can witness to the power of God in your life.

With Jesus there is life! There are plenty of people that would like some LIFE in their living. Jesus said that He came to bring sinners, not the whole, to repentance, and those that are whole need not a physician. He knew that those who claim wholeness needed Him just the same, but He didn't bother with those who were not open to Him. Sometimes those are in the church.

[Overaged]

I'd like to be able to have a place where folks that need serious help CAN come and find some shelter to grow stronger. Away from the temptations of the small town, let alone the big city. As the Lord leads, I'm going to do this, actually follow and incorporate the "blue print". Making more preparation each day, somebodys gotta do it, it CAN be done, it WILL be done.

...might not be able to get much internet out there, enjoy my company while you can (as some breath a sigh of relief we won't have to deal with THAT guy much longer).

I think there are things you don't understand. You would be absolutely shocked if you knew what was going on out "in the country."

We enjoy having you here on this forum. Make no mistake. You would be missed.

[Overaged]

You make some good points.

Victory in Christ should be possible everywhere.

[fccool]

Quote:

Cool, ol buddy. The Bible itself states that immorality will cause lasting reproach. When I mention the names Swaggert and Baker - what do you think of immediately?? Or Clinton and Lewinsky?

1) Proverbs 6:33

2) II Samuel 13:12-13

Now, moral sin can be cleaned up Biblically, and should be. But the consequences linger long.

I really don't want to derail this discussion, but "morality" is not purely Biblical concept. I've lived in Soviet Union, and much of the immorality that flies with flying colors here was punishable by some jail time back in Soviet Union days. That would include possession and distribution of pornographic material, and homosexuality.

The issue in the cases that were give were not immorality. It was the spotlight that these people were in, and the standards that were expected of them.

When I look at Clinton, I don't automatically think "Sexually immoral". You have to look at people as a whole, and learn to forgive them, mainly because you forgive yourself quite a bit more.

[ClubV12]

"I think there are things you don't understand."

Oh, I am sure there are! While I grew up in the country, that was decades ago. I've lived in big cities the bulk of my life and I rather enjoy that easy access to everything. I DO recall the long trips into town and the times when we couldn't even get to town because we were snowed in. I recall as a young man how incredibly boring it was as well. It is with some fear, more like, sound reasoning and respect, for what I may getting into as I contemplate and prepare.

Will I be able to adjust? Will I get discouraged and long for the city once again? Will I be bored to tears? I don't know. I think one aspect of all this is I have to stay busy, work hard. SO, I'm doing that right here, right now. I'm starting a small car repair business, mostly just to get out of the house and be more active. I see that as a ministry, a way to reach some within my community. Fix the car, give them a Signs of the Times. I know life is tough in the country, tougher than the city. I need to prepare mentally and physically.

...I hate "mud" and my memories of the Oregon country have a LOT of "mud" involved. It rains in Oregon, and there are no sidewalks in the country, there is mud. I'll need a "mud room" first thing.

[Dr. Shane]

I believe some folks need to get into a "clinic" of some kind. Like the Betty Ford Clinic for alcohol or drugs or whatever it is they do there.

[Dr. Shane]

This problem is becoming so out in the open lately that I wonder if there is a family that is NOT affected

When I was men's ministry leader this is a topic our pastor wanted us to spend some time on. Most men have seen porn and enjoy looking at it. That doesn't make them a porn addict. For most men porn is a temptation that we can leave alone if we decide to. We don't need professional help. However there are some men who are truly addicted and need help.

[Overaged]

You are right Shane; if addiction is in the picture, it will have 2 major components. 1) the person cannot control it anymore, 2) it interferes with normal day to day living Sadly, in the case of this Pastor, we have an example.

When I clicked the link above, I read the article; it is actually a very sad story. My heart goes out to all involved. I also saw after that article a news video about a Catholic Priest who was jailed for child abuse and they are trying to decide what to do about his superior who knowingly covered it up and shielded him from discovery.

The whole issue boils down to being willing to admit it's there, and to do the right thing about it.

I am glad to see, through this thread and the link provided in the OP that some are starting to do something constructive about this and actually help people caught up in it.

[sdg]

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[HappyFaith]

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[Pockey]

I think one aspect of all this is I have to stay busy, work hard. SO, I'm doing that right here, right now. I'm starting a small car repair business, mostly just to get out of the house and be more active. I see that as a ministry, a way to reach some within my community. Fix the car, give them a Signs of the Times. I know life is tough in the country, tougher than the city. I need to prepare mentally and physically.

This is very interesting Club. How did you come up with the idea to do this, did it just hit you one day? Why "Signs of the Times", versus, say some other literature, or was that just an example? I agree with you, I think it's so important to stay busy. Was it Overaged who said he can't wait to wake up in the morning to see what Jesus wants him to do that day? Something along those lines. That really seems like the goal to me, and sounds like you're living and breathing it too. I hope you still have internet where you're at, I definitely appreciate your passion for God.

[Overaged]

This is very interesting Club. How did you come up with the idea to do this, did it just hit you one day? Why "Signs of the Times", versus, say some other literature, or was that just an example? I agree with you, I think it's so important to stay busy. Was it Overaged who said he can't wait to wake up in the morning to see what Jesus wants him to do that day? Something along those lines. That really seems like the goal to me, and sounds like you're living and breathing it too. I hope you still have internet where you're at, I definitely appreciate your passion for God.

[ClubV12]

Reading the Testimonies is the primary driver for me on issues of reform in general and considering a move to the country in particular. I rarely read any books other than the Spirit of Prophecy now, but that may change in time. I just find there is SO much good counsel in Ellen Whites writings it feels like reading a book is getting similiar counsel "second hand". BUT, reading Ellen White can be exhausting because we are so used to a "quick read" that is "interesting". It do take some work to plow through the entire Testimony series. I'm not sure I would "heartily" recommend that method to all people, but it's sure been and is a blessing to me. Just pick up one of the volumes and read a bit of it one day. Like the bible, it's a good idea to pray for some "eye salve" before you start.

I keep various literature around the house and in my car for handing out. I'm still learning whats appropriate, when and how to hand it out. Primarily I like those little "Glow" tracts and the "Signs". Short, simple, colorful, easy to read. I've gotten some good feedback from the neighbors about how they enjoy the Signs, so that kind of prompted me to continue to lean on them. Steps to Christ is good but I think you need to find someone that demonstrates an interest in spiritual things. Same applies to Desire of Ages and other books of course.

"Glow" tracts you can distribute like the leaves of Autumn, everyone can use one. Other literature needs to be more targeted.

[joeb]

It's nothing to do with "spiritual health", but basic human decency IMO. There are plenty of Christians who are both great Christians and human beings. There are people who are not Christians, but decent human beings. And, of course, there are those who are great Christians, and not doing so well when it comes to basic human decency.

Many times though, I think it's stems from over-exaggerating a problem to the point that the problem embodies human being. Everything that that particular human being is becomes forgotten, and he is remembered for that one particular thing. Be it alcoholism, pornography, crime of the past, his belief, or other like problems.

Ironically, this is done with groups of people too One's bad experience with a group can overshadow everything that that group is and stands for, be it Muslims, Christians, or Atheists.

What I bolded from your post tells me that you have never understood what Christianity is all about.

[olger]

yep

[Guest]

I have to agree..

[olger]

I agree with your "agreement."

g