For God so Loved The World.

[phkrause]

You've asked a very interesting question EC, and I'm sure many have asked the same question and from what I'm reading a very good dialog going on. For me, I believe there are many things that are really unanswerable, at this time. Something God will be asked, by each and everyone of us, during those 1000 years in Heaven before we return to the earth made new. Along with many other questions, like why so in so is not here, and how is it that so in so is here, etc. All these question will be answered to our satisfaction. And EC there's nothing wrong with asking these question in the here and now. The answers are another story, and I believe that that is where Faith comes into play. We have to except the limitations that we as humans have. For me I believe that there just to much for us to handle, or maybe not, just my thought about it. With questions EC we find ourselves learning, even though we might not get an answer or understand why things are the way they are. All I know is I have Faith in the Bible and what is brings to me personally. Not sure where I read it, it could've been on another thread or on a Christian forum on FB or somewhere else altogether. But someone was saying that the Bible is a personal letter from God to each one of us. I really liked that a lot, it makes it very personal and not just something we all have to take the exact same way. At least in that respect we can have a dialog with others and learn from each other. Not that dialog always stays that way, where we have opinions and others come along and instead of just giving there opinion, they tell you are wrong, that's not what it says. Anyway I stop there. I think you get the picture.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

But we know that Isaac was not Abraham's only son..., neither was he born first.

Is past prologue?—mebbe... If so, it tends to suggest that the ‘begotten’ is the one who inherits – in other words, ‘the firstborn’.

After all, both Isaac and Jesus Christ were inheritors and ‘firstborn’.

Should the above obtain, an interesting aspect emerges, –might Gd actually have other Sons?—and Daughters?

Our most ancient texts (extraBiblical) tell of at least two sons of the Great Gd – as do the Mormons {/hmmm]

Some texts narrate an equivalent holy spirit ‘mixing’ (in vitro?) Gd-essense with proto-man – to create sapient man.

Per a female aspect: the Syriac (a dialect of Aramaic, as is Hebrew), up until the fifth century, states and treats the HS is/as female.

Lastly, one must take into account the dates the various ‘books’ of the NT were written. ‘Begotten’ could have been a thing accomplished any time prior to those books being written – even immediately before.

Not sayin’, ...just another view.

Addendum:

>>there is no marriage in 'heaven'<<

That is precipitous. The question was asked, “in/at the resurrection” – not “in/at heaven” (Mt 22:28-30). The question was asked acutely and Jesus Christ responded in like manner. Anyway,

'in heaven' does not address that occurring elsewhere – earth – for example.

[BibleOnly]

Ok

Well as much as I have studied the bible, prayed to the God of the bible, no spirit has moved me to see it as "truth". Not in its whole. I truly believe that to just accept its teachings simply because it says its the truth would be really irresponsible. Not just the Bible, but any spiritual teaching. I could write something, tell you God inspired me, and tell you its the truth. Does not make it so. While I get the premise of blind faith, I don't understand how people do it.

Real faith is not blind, it's based on evidence.

[M. T. Cross]

You've asked a very interesting question EC, and I'm sure many have asked the same question and from what I'm reading a very good dialog going on. For me, I believe there are many things that are really unanswerable, at this time. Something God will be asked, by each and everyone of us, during those 1000 years in Heaven before we return to the earth made new. Along with many other questions, like why so in so is not here, and how is it that so in so is here, etc. All these question will be answered to our satisfaction. And EC there's nothing wrong with asking these question in the here and now. The answers are another story, and I believe that that is where Faith comes into play. We have to except the limitations that we as humans have. For me I believe that there just to much for us to handle, or maybe not, just my thought about it. With questions EC we find ourselves learning, even though we might not get an answer or understand why things are the way they are. All I know is I have Faith in the Bible and what is brings to me personally. Not sure where I read it, it could've been on another thread or on a Christian forum on FB or somewhere else altogether. But someone was saying that the Bible is a personal letter from God to each one of us. I really liked that a lot, it makes it very personal and not just something we all have to take the exact same way. At least in that respect we can have a dialog with others and learn from each other. Not that dialog always stays that way, where we have opinions and others come along and instead of just giving there opinion, they tell you are wrong, that's not what it says. Anyway I stop there. I think you get the picture.

That is an awesome post PK.

First you talking about the Bible from a personal point of view. To me that is the opposite of blind faith. It has spoken to you and means something very deep and personal to you. The peace it gives you shines through.

Also I agree that the human mind can only handle so much truth, I think that could be why prophets were often considered to be madmen.

I appreciate that post more than I can tell you.

[phkrause]

Well I thank you for that, but Praise God instead. He can talk through anybody and he definitely speaks to us through the Bible. Sometimes it just takes people to point things out other times we can read something from some else and say, hey that is speaking to me. I think that comes across a lot for some here when they read EGW. Not just trying to bring her into this discussion, but many times reading something she wrote you say wait a minute that's what that passage in the Bible is saying. That can happen also reading, someone else like, Boonstra, Bacthelor, Nelson, and a host of other SDA writers or even non-SDA writers like Max Lucado, Tony Compalo, etc.

[Aliensanctuary]

If we read the genealogy correctly, Adam, too, was considered a son of YHVH, even though he was not born of a woman. Adam was more of a scientific/test tube/advanced technology sort of creation, light years beyond our comprehension. Eve was cloned from Adam, but with a few, fortunate changes.

Luke 3:38

Quote:

son of Enos, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.

BTW, where does the idea that Jesus existed in another form in the heavenly realms before becoming human come from?

[BibleOnly]

If we read the genealogy correctly, Adam, too, was considered a son of YHVH, even though he was not born of a woman. Adam was more of a scientific/test tube/advanced technology sort of creation, light years beyond our comprehension. Eve was cloned from Adam, but with a few, fortunate changes.

Luke 3:38

Quote:

son of Enos, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.

BTW, where does the idea that Jesus existed in another form in the heavenly realms before becoming human come from?

The scriptures I quoted for a start. The Word was with God from the beginning, and Jesus was the Word made flesh.

I'm not sure I accept this one verse as meaning that Adam was God's son in the same sense as Jesus. I think it's a turn of phrase indicating something very different.

[Aliensanctuary]

As I see it, YHVH is the Creator of life on Earth, and also, the "father" of Jesus because he caused Mir-yawm to be "artificially impregnated", for lack of a better term, via his Spirit.

As Jesus stated, he spoke only what his father told him to say. In other words, whenever Jesus said anything, it was YHVH speaking through him, using his human voice. YHVH created a human being to be his spokesperson, and voice, to the world, while he, YHVH, the father, was at times quite near, even hovering above, shrouded in thick clouds. Jesus was, I believe, more like an avatar that the LORD used to communicate with hell-bound humanity.

In a sense, the misguided religious leaders of Jesus’ day did kill YHVH, via Jesus, and would have killed YHVH himself if that were possible. That’s what happens when religion becomes more important than people.

[BibleOnly]

I'd say that's what happens when religion is regarded to be more important than God

[M. T. Cross]

As Jesus stated, he spoke only what his father told him to say. In other words, whenever Jesus said anything, it was YHVH speaking through him, using his human voice. YHVH created a human being to be his spokesperson, and voice, to the world, while he, YHVH, the father, was at times quite near, even hovering above, shrouded in thick clouds. Jesus was, I believe, more like an avatar that the LORD used to communicate with hell-bound humanity.

Dude thats just kinda creepy

[BibleOnly]

Well, if God was hovering in the clouds, does that mean He's not everywhere to start with ? What if it was a sunny day ?

[Aliensanctuary]

YHVH's Spirit/Spirits seem to have the ability to cover a lot of territory with their job of monitoring the Earth. YHVH himself is described as having a form by those who believed that they saw him.

Ezek 1:26-28

Quote:

Above the surface over their heads was what looked like a throne made of blue sapphire. And high above this throne was a figure whose appearance was like that of a man.

From his waist up, he looked like gleaming amber, flickering like a fire. And from his waist down, he looked like a burning flame, shining with splendor.

All around him was a glowing halo, like a rainbow shining through the clouds. This was the way the glory of the Lord appeared to me...

Ps 18:

Quote:

6. But in my distress I cried out to the Lord;

yes, I prayed to my God for help.

He heard me from his sanctuary;

my cry reached his ears.

7. Then the earth quaked and trembled;

the foundations of the mountains shook;

they quaked because of his anger.

8. Smoke poured from his nostrils;

fierce flames leaped from his mouth;

glowing coals flamed forth from him.

9. He opened the heavens and came down;

dark storm clouds were beneath his feet.

10. Mounted on a mighty angel,* he flew,

soaring on the wings of the wind.

11. He shrouded himself in darkness,

veiling his approach with dense rain clouds.

The throne of the LORD tends to be shrouded in thick clouds, sometimes creating its own weather (wind, rain, thunder and lightning, and throw in an earthquake or two from time to time). The LORD, riding on his throne, was very near his son as he hung dying on the cross.

[BibleOnly]

2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain [was] full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

I don't believe Elisha could see these horses and chariots all the time. I believe a physical vision was given to help weak people understand spiritual things. I believe God is everywhere.