Moderators John317 Posted December 17, 2011 Moderators Posted December 17, 2011 The Bible teaches that women and men are different, and have different roles. It does not say that women are sub standard. The idea that men and women are the same is something that science has disproven, our brains are wired differently. A lot of feminists hate science for proving this and deny it is true, because they assume that different means not equal. This is not true. I completely agree, and so do the majority of SDAs. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted December 17, 2011 Moderators Posted December 17, 2011 ....Look at this conversation between you and John, for instance. If the Bible could be plainly understood and the Holy Spirit actively guided your study, you guys wouldn't be having this disagreement. End of story. You're neglecting to consider many things, Igakusei. BibleOnly and I actually agree much more in regard to the Bible than we disagree. There's also the fact that the Bible was not written like a newspaper article. The truths of the Bible were purposely written so that we must dig for them. Few Bible truths are found by surface reading. Thirdly, we are all at different levels of spiritual awareness and maturity. Fourthly, what we see in the Bible is influenced by our religious and educational background. Fifthly, there is often a difference of understanding between people about even the clearest writing. For instance, lawyers very often disagree about the meaning of the law without there being any defect in the writing itself. If a teacher gives a story or a poem to a class-room of students, he will likely find that there is wide divergence in the interpretations. Two main reasons for the disagreements over meaning of languange is that people have unequal abilities to analzye language and they come to the writing with different motives and assumptions. When it comes to the Bible, there's also the fact that not all readers pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance as they study. The Holy Spirit does not overpower people's will. People are free to make choices as to meaning; they're not forced. All of these factors play a part in causing differences in opinion as to the meaning of written texts. Therefore the differences are not necessarily due to the explanation you give: that the Holy Spirit does not guide people's study. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
olger Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly The Bible teaches that women and men are different, and have different roles. It does not say that women are sub standard. The idea that men and women are the same is something that science has disproven, our brains are wired differently. A lot of feminists hate science for proving this and deny it is true, because they assume that different means not equal. This is not true. I completely agree, and so do the majority of SDAs. Indeed. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
BibleOnly Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly The Bible teaches that women and men are different, and have different roles. It does not say that women are sub standard. The idea that men and women are the same is something that science has disproven, our brains are wired differently. A lot of feminists hate science for proving this and deny it is true, because they assume that different means not equal. This is not true. I completely agree, and so do the majority of SDAs. *grin* stop the presses..... Quote
doug yowell Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I agree. That's why the 12 apostles were half men and half women. Do you mean that half of the apostles were men and half were women? Or do you mean that all the apostles were half man/half woman? Quote
BibleOnly Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 LOL - either way, it's plainly not true. Jesus came in to a society that gave different roles to women, and He never spoke out against it. Quote
doug yowell Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 http://freethoughtblogs.com/alstefanelli/2011/12/11/woman-know-your-place/ Thoughts? What I find so obvious is the author's fixation on Christianity as the main culprit. Apparantly his deep historical search has failed to uncover any misogyny in pre-Christian/non-Christian cultures. If he believes in the evolutionary process I wonder how he believes that the Judeo/Christian influence managed to nearly erradicate the equal and proper treatment that women had experienced leading up to the Roman/post Roman empire? After tens of thousands of years (or more)of equitable treatment women are suddenly stripped of their voting/educational/political/legal/ect... rights by a small group of fanatical religious gynophobes (including women).And all that "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church..." stuff was really only just a very effective red herring. Vewy twickey. Quote
BibleOnly Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Like any determined attack on Christianity based on a light scan of the Bible, it doesn't hold up to examination, I agree. Quote
doug yowell Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Like any determined attack on Christianity based on a light scan of the Bible, it doesn't hold up to examination, I agree. Or history. Quote
doug yowell Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Like any determined attack on Christianity based on a light scan of the Bible, it doesn't hold up to examination, I agree. Fortunately for societies like Japan,China,Saudi Arabia, and others, the Christian influence was stymied enough to insure the women of their cultures that their rightful place was left intact. Quote
BibleOnly Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Saudi Arabia ? Wow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia "All women, regardless of age, are required to have a male guardian. Women cannot vote or be elected to high political positions" "Depending on the guardian, women may need their guardian's permission for: marriage and divorce; travel, if under 45; education; employment; opening a bank account; elective surgery, particularly when sexual in nature. The official law, if not the custom, requiring a guardian's permission for a woman to seek employment was repealed in 2008" And so on.... Quote
Windsor Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Saudi Arabia ? Wow. I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. Quote Remember Adventists Online?
BibleOnly Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Honestly, I can never tell, I've not been here long enough to know everyone's name and associate it with a position. Quote
doug yowell Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly Saudi Arabia ? Wow. I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. That would be an affirmative, intended to show the contrast between a half truth and reality. Quote
Members phkrause Posted December 17, 2011 Members Posted December 17, 2011 I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.That would be an affirmative, intended to show the contrast between a half truth and reality. I was just thinking that same thing. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
olger Posted December 18, 2011 Posted December 18, 2011 The libs (liberals and libbers) will protest the New Jerusalem for having a chauvinistic foundation (all names of men). Occupy Jerusalem anyone ??? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
BibleOnly Posted December 18, 2011 Posted December 18, 2011 What does the occupy movement have to do with feminism ? Quote
Members phkrause Posted December 19, 2011 Members Posted December 19, 2011 What does the occupy movement have to do with feminism ? That's one I'd like to know also. The problem with some is everything has to be political otherwise they don't know how to act. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
doug yowell Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 The libs (liberals and libbers) will protest the New Jerusalem for having a chauvinistic foundation (all names of men). Occupy Jerusalem anyone ??? Well, that went over like a lead balloon, didn't it,Og? Try to keep it a little less complex. Quote
CoAspen Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: olger The libs (liberals and libbers) will protest the New Jerusalem for having a chauvinistic foundation (all names of men). Occupy Jerusalem anyone ??? Well, that went over like a lead balloon, didn't it,Og? Try to keep it a little less complex. Nothing complex about it!! Just mindless chit chat!! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 .... the New Jerusalem for having a chauvinistic foundation (all names of men). True, and it will be true throughout eternity. Something to think about: Rev. 21:12-14 It [New Jerusalem] had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— [13] on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. [14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. What is God's reasoning for doing this? Does this mean God was prejudiced against women? Not at all, but many today would say so. Does anyone believe God will change His plans so they agree with modern society? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Quote: Just mindless chit chat!! Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
CoAspen Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Quote: What is God's reasoning for doing this? Does this mean God was prejudiced against women? Not at all, but many today would say so. None on this board would say God is prejudiced against women, just man(male) is prejudiced against women's true equality in all things. Man(male) has at times misinterpreted God for cultural and personal beliefs, ie, using the New Jerusalem walls etc, to perpetuate those beliefs of the higher standing of men(males). Much ado about nothing, at least when it comes to the role of women!!!!! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 Rev. 21:12-14 It [New Jerusalem] had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— [13] on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. [14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. What is God's reasoning for doing this? Why did God choose to include for eternity only the names of men in the walls of the New Jerusalem? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 19, 2011 Administrators Posted December 19, 2011 It is fair to say that God's reasoning for this aspect of the symbolic representation of his people is not at all like human reasoning. And I am quite confident it had nothing to do with any male vs. female thing at all. Nor was it an exclusion of women thing. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
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