Believing the Bible

[BibleOnly]

I am quite surprised that some here think it's cool that SDA members have different opinions on what the Bible says about pretty much everything. And yet, people keep telling me the SDA believe the Bible. If you don't agree what it says, how can you all believe what it says ?

[Gibs]

BibleOnly,

You are not dealing with but a very few old time SDA's here on these forums. There is some I know that would give you a run for your money around here that left it many years ago.

Yes I'm surprised at the different views presented by SDA's any more but I think that will be found anywhere. Anyway the main thing is, many are willing to discuss it with you so that is what makes it a discussion board.

Enjoy,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

I am quite surprised that some here think it's cool that SDA members have different opinions on what the Bible says about pretty much everything. And yet, people keep telling me the SDA believe the Bible. If you don't agree what it says, how can you all believe what it says ?

It may be disconcerting & shocking to some that we don't have uniformity of thought. The reasons are:

1. We have no pope that dictates what to believe.

2. We all have a God-given intellect that see things which is colored by our background & experience.

3. We do have a set of fundamental beliefs which the majority of SDAs agree to.

4. The SDA umbrella is big enough to accommodate a range of positions that do not compromise the plan of salvation.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

I am quite surprised that some here think it's cool that SDA members have different opinions on what the Bible says about pretty much everything. And yet, people keep telling me the SDA believe the Bible. If you don't agree what it says, how can you all believe what it says ?

It may be disconcerting & shocking to some that we don't have uniformity of thought. The reasons are:

1. We have no pope that dictates what to believe.

2. We all have a God-given intellect that see things which is colored by our background & experience.

3. We do have a set of fundamental beliefs which the majority of SDAs agree to.

4. The SDA umbrella is big enough to accommodate a range of positions that do not compromise the plan of salvation.

What Gerry isn't telling you is that:

1. Many SDA are more and more coming to realize the enormous impact Ellen White has had on this denomination not only "historically (which is good)" but "theologically (which can/cannot be good)". As a result many are finding that Ellen White is not always in sync with the Bible and the Bible only.

In this regard they are finding that Ellen White is actually the source of some of the Church's Doctrines and its sole source.

2. Most of the "youth" in the past thirty years have left the church and/or give only lip service to it. Again, because they find the credibility of Ellen White to be grossly lacking in regard to Biblical truth, relevancy to today's life, and the corruption they see in the SDA Church .org leadership. This is especially true in the North American/European part of the Church.

3. SDA are finding out more and more that the "pristine" picture of Ellen White that the SDA Church .org has fostered for more than 150yrs. is tarnished by more and more revelations of what the actual truth is.

Thus, confidence in what was once known as the "SOP" has been badly shaken and damaged beyond repair.

The FACT that the Official SDA Church .org does not truthfully come and/or want to come to truthful grips with these FACTS means continual damage will be done.

4. It is not true that "the majority" of SDA agree with the Twenty-Eight Fundamentals. This is again a myth that the SDA Church .org wants to foster so as to demonstrate "unity" within the ranks.

The truth is most SDA only on the surface know what the Church Fundamentals say if that. Most could not give you a "Bible Study" on all twenty-eight. Most don't even know all twenty-eight exist.

5. When defending SDA Church .org doctrines, most who actually study will at least among themselves always clinch an argument/disputed point with "Ellen White says" and the discussion ends with the Authority of Ellen White and what she says.

This phenomenon can be witnessed on this Forum site when two or more "orthodox" SDA have a discussion. Man do the Ellen White quotes flow. Maybe some Bible thrown in just for flavor but it is dominated by the Ellen White quotes.

Then it is to me funny(actually sad) when these same ones tell us they rely on the Bible and the Bible only for their truth.

[doug yowell]

BibleOnly,

You are not dealing with but a very few old time SDA's here on these forums.

Hey, watch it with the old timer cracks!!

[doug yowell]

What Gerry isn't telling you is that:.......

Gerry, why didn't YOU tell us all of these things? I'm very disappointed. Had I known that everything I believed the Bible to say was merely the creation of a misleading 19th century (false??) prophet I would never have become a SDA.

[Gibs]

Hey Doug,

I'm an old timer I suppose, at 80 plus, so are you getting close to that, hope you are not past it!

Anyway, cheers,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: miz3

What Gerry isn't telling you is that:.......

Gerry, why didn't YOU tell us all of these things? I'm very disappointed. Had I known that everything I believed the Bible to say was merely the creation of a misleading 19th century (false??) prophet I would never have become a SDA.

What? Is your faith so easily shaken, Doug? I said nothing of the kind, especially about the creation of a false prophet! I personally believe all of the 28 FB as biblical. And I am one of those also who believe that EGW was a heaven-sent messenger to this endtime movement. But as I said, there are Adventist who do not accept all 28.

I have repeatedly asked Miz3 to tell/show me the most biblically sound church besides the SDAC so I can join it, but so far he hasn't mentioned it.

[Overaged]

You ask some fair questions Bible Only. Hopefully you will get some answers. I have attended many churches of different denominations and I have rarely seen disagreements about doctrines as meaning that the people do not believe the Bible.

Recall; that some of the disciples in the Bible didn't even believe in the resurrection for a time; even though Jesus clearly taught it. I imagine the same kind of thing applies in our respective churches too.

Do you mind me asking which churche you attend?

[Gerr]

What Gerry isn't telling you is that:

1. Many SDA are more and more coming to realize the enormous impact Ellen White has had on this denomination not only "historically (which is good)" but "theologically (which can/cannot be good)". As a result many are finding that Ellen White is not always in sync with the Bible and the Bible only.

In this regard they are finding that Ellen White is actually the source of some of the Church's Doctrines and its sole source

There is no question that EGW had a tremendous impact on the SDA Church, just as Luther had with the Lutherans, the Wesleys with the Methodists, etc. We make no apologies for this. Just as all the Bible prophets had an impact to the church of their day. Most SDAs believe Ellen White to be a heaven-sent messenger to this church. There is not one in my current congregation who has any reservations about her prophetic ministry. Is not the gift of prophecy one of the gifts of the Spirit? Did not the prophet Joel prophesy about it? Paul says, "Do not despise prophesying." So why so much umbrage against this woman? Without her ministry, I probably would not be a SDA today. And it is largely her counsels on excellence & setting one's goals high that got me to where I am.

Quote:

2. Most of the "youth" in the past thirty years have left the church and/or give only lip service to it. Again, because they find the credibility of Ellen White to be grossly lacking in regard to Biblical truth, relevancy to today's life, and the corruption they see in the SDA Church .org leadership. This is especially true in the North American/European part of the Church.

You are over-stating your case and the cause of people leaving the church. For some, no doubt it's because they cannot accept the testimonies of EGW. For some, it's an indictment of the parents' poor job of passing on the torch of truth. Did not Jesus Himself say, "The love of many shall wax cold?" Ellen White also predicted that there will come a time of "shaking" in the SDA church, and "multitudes" will be shaken out. And while many are shaken out, even more will take their places. According to her, we ARE in that shaking time. In spite of this, the fact is, the Adventist Church is one of the fastest growing churches worldwide.

Quote:

3. SDA are finding out more and more that the "pristine" picture of Ellen White that the SDA Church .org has fostered for more than 150yrs. is tarnished by more and more revelations of what the actual truth is.

Thus, confidence in what was once known as the "SOP" has been badly shaken and damaged beyond repair.

The FACT that the Official SDA Church .org does not truthfully come and/or want to come to truthful grips with these FACTS means continual damage will be done.

What fact? What truth? What revelations? If you have ANY beef with ANY of the 28 FB of SDAs, start a thread and we will take them one point at a time, not this taking potshots here & there where the issues are not discussed.

I have asked you at least 2x already - show me a more biblically sound church than the SDAC and I will join it. If you are in it, you haven't mentioned it. All you have done so far is to say, "your church is bad." If your church is so right, why haven't you mention your church and invited us to join it? Right now, miz3, all you're doing is griping, griping, griping without shedding light on anything. So again, I ask you, show that church that clings to the Bible more closely than the Adventist Church.

Quote:

4. It is not true that "the majority" of SDA agree with the Twenty-Eight Fundamentals. This is again a myth that the SDA Church .org wants to foster so as to demonstrate "unity" within the ranks.

The truth is most SDA only on the surface know what the Church Fundamentals say if that. Most could not give you a "Bible Study" on all twenty-eight. Most don't even know all twenty-eight exist.

I don't know how you know that the majority of SDAs do not subscribe to the 28 FB. I don't know of ANY SDA minister that will baptize anyone who do not subscribe to all the 28 FB. Some may have reservations later and disagree. Most of the SDAs I know do belleve the 28 FB.

It is rather ridiculous to expect every SDA to be able to give a Bible study on every one of the 28 FB, although I agree that they should.

Quote:

5. When defending SDA Church .org doctrines, most who actually study will at least among themselves always clinch an argument/disputed point with "Ellen White says" and the discussion ends with the Authority of Ellen White and what she says.

This phenomenon can be witnessed on this Forum site when two or more "orthodox" SDA have a discussion. Man do the Ellen White quotes flow. Maybe some Bible thrown in just for flavor but it is dominated by the Ellen White quotes.

Most SDAs clinching arguments among themselves by quoting EGW? Don't make me laugh, miz3. On the one hand you claim many SDAs don't believe EGW, how then can SDAs clinch an argument by citing someone you claim is not taken seriously? While I rarely ever bring EGW for authority even when discussing with another SDA, why shouldn't Adventists bring to bear the words of someone whom they believe to be a prophet in their discussions? But I would NEVER use EGW as authority when talking with a non-Adventist. NEVER! You will NEVER find one reference to EGW by me in any of my responses to you. And I've had many.

Quote:

Then it is to me funny(actually sad) when these same ones tell us they rely on the Bible and the Bible only for their truth.

Whether you agree or not, there is not one of the 28FB that is not Biblically based. Again, start a thread and we will examine your objections one by one.

[phkrause]

What? Is your faith so easily shaken, Doug? I said nothing of the kind, especially about the creation of a false prophet! I personally believe all of the 28 FB as biblical. And I am one of those also who believe that EGW was a heaven-sent messenger to this endtime movement. But as I said, there are Adventist who do not accept all 28.

I have repeatedly asked Miz3 to tell/show me the most biblically sound church besides the SDAC so I can join it, but so far he hasn't mentioned it.

and I think Doug was being sarcastic? But you knew thaat, right?

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

What Gerry isn't telling you is that:.......

Gerry, why didn't YOU tell us all of these things? I'm very disappointed. Had I known that everything I believed the Bible to say was merely the creation of a misleading 19th century (false??) prophet I would never have become a SDA.

Could be that Gerry Cabalo honestly didn't know.

I like Gerry Cabalo so get off his back doug.

[miz3]

What? Is your faith so easily shaken, Doug? I said nothing of the kind, especially about the creation of a false prophet! I personally believe all of the 28 FB as biblical. And I am one of those also who believe that EGW was a heaven-sent messenger to this endtime movement. But as I said, there are Adventist who do not accept all 28.

I have repeatedly asked Miz3 to tell/show me the most biblically sound church besides the SDAC so I can join it, but so far he hasn't mentioned it.

I never ever said that SDA Church .org was not the most Biblically sound .org.

In fact Gerry I agree wholeheartedly that the SDA Church .org in spite of Ellen White and her writings is indeed the most Biblically sound .org.

I would not want you to leave the SDA Church .org Gerry. I honestly think that would be huge mistake.

I don't often agree with your theology but I have come to believe (I cannot prove it and I could be dead wrong) that you Gerry are a very honest person. I wish there more honest persons in the world and in the SDA Church .org. There are far toooooo few.

[miz3]

Then it is to me funny(actually sad) when these same ones tell us they rely on the Bible and the Bible only for their truth.

[doug yowell]

and I think Doug was being sarcastic? But you knew thaat, right?

A most observant notation I might add.

[doug yowell]

Could be that Gerry Cabalo honestly didn't know.

I like Gerry Cabalo so get off his back doug.

Why? With Gerry doing all the effective lifting I can enjoy the ride without having to respond on my own. But would that mean that I was believing Gerry more than the Bible? Hmmmm.

[Gerr]

and I think Doug was being sarcastic? But you knew thaat, right?

I couldn't be sure.

[Dr. Rich]

I am quite surprised that some here think it's cool that SDA members have different opinions on what the Bible says about pretty much everything. And yet, people keep telling me the SDA believe the Bible. If you don't agree what it says, how can you all believe what it says ?

Questions: How come there are so many different Christian denominations--each believing they are the true church and all of them say they form their opinions from the bible?

How come Paul said that he preached and taught a gospel that was different from the eyewitness disciples? How come Paul taught that there were two ways to be saved, one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles?

Could it be that God allowed Satan to sow the weed seeds in the same place as we find the wheat seeds--the New Testiment? (Matt.13)

[BibleOnly]

Paul taught no such thing. Now that I've stopped posting, I feel free to tell you that you're utterly deluded and living in a fantasy that has no basis on what Paul actually wrote. I suspect you just love the idea of having 'secret knowledge' so you convince yourself it's true.

My point is, there's lots of denominations, lots of 'tares', but a group of people who all believe different things from the bible can't claim to have a unity that comes from all doing what the Bible says. The people who do what the Bible says, across all denominations, by definition all believe that the Bible says the same thing. The SDA is not a denomination whose members do that, which is a secondary proof, the fact that the SDA beliefs are not in the bible is the primary reason the SDA does not follow the Bible, but the fact that you can't agree on what it says, also shows that if some of you do what the Bible says, others do not, believing that it says something different.

[Dr. Rich]

You are free to say I am "utterly deluded" as Jesus said that His true followers will be treated just like He was treated.

Try this BibleOnly, identify the difference between a "wheat" and a "tare"? Remember the rules tho, that no one knew the difference for over 2000 years while they were growing up together. Good luck!

[BibleOnly]

Given that you've presented examples of Paul contradicting Jesus and they were so ridiculous as to be comical, I don't really care to play your game. That you believe that a church can all believe the Bible says different things, and still all do what the Bible says, is no surprise to me.

[Overaged]

Given that you've presented examples of Paul contradicting Jesus and they were so ridiculous as to be comical, I don't really care to play your game. That you believe that a church can all believe the Bible says different things, and still all do what the Bible says, is no surprise to me.

Some of us are not playing games here bro. Go easy on us if we differ. Do you mind if I ask what church you attend? (we have all told you). If you have more or better truth than me; I WANT TO KNOW IT AND JOIN.

[Dr. Rich]

Given that you've presented examples of Paul contradicting Jesus and they were so ridiculous as to be comical, I don't really care to play your game. That you believe that a church can all believe the Bible says different things, and still all do what the Bible says, is no surprise to me.

The 144k will have perfect unity---'One with God' as they will be totally blameless and will not believe any lie. (Rev. 14:5)

How can they do this? By following ONLY the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses! It's just that simple. Matter of fact, I know of a group of SDA's who have been doing this and they are in complete unity. Sure, what they found is not the same as the majority, but then the narrow road will not have the majority travel on it either. It's your choice to believe in the words of Jesus or Paul. I choose Jesus as His words trump everyone else's words.

[Overaged]

Paul taught no such thing. Now that I've stopped posting, I feel free to tell you that you're utterly deluded

But you have not stopped posting. You did this post, plus atleast 2 others that I know of...

[BibleOnly]

Overaged - you seem like a nice sort of guy. I am only being short with people who have been short with me, and who I don't want to waste my time. Yet, here I am being sucked back in, when I really want to stop posting. PM me if you want to chat. I posted a link to my church before. www.rci.org.au

Dr Rich, I am not going to repeat myself. Paul never contradicted Jesus. People who think he did, are illiterate and/or deluded, probably by choice, because they love the idea of knowing things other people do not.