Can Abortion be a Blessing?

[doug yowell]

Opposing sex ed and access to contraception often lead to increases in abortion.

Teaching that abortion and sexuality outside of marriage is morally acceptable defeats any detrimental effect that support of or opposition to birth control may have on the abortion rate. If abortion is a morally nuetral form of birth control than it's just one of many options to choose from.

[doug yowell]

Those who oppose abortion should probably be foremost in considering adoption.

They are.

[doug yowell]

My understanding of 1 Timothy 4:10 is that all those human beings who don't receive the gift of faith during this life are included in the "all mankind" and will be reconciled and vivified at the end of the eons, when death is abolished. 1 Cor. 15:20-28. Any aborted or miscarried fetuses who were human beings (and only God knows which would qualify) will be saved eventually.

Along with every murderer of every alreadyborn baby as well as every other human being regardless of age..

[Guest]

Those who oppose abortion should probably be foremost in considering adoption.

[dialoguewithus]

After the first trimester, viability becomes more of an issue and the privacy of the mother less. When education and birth control are available, abortion becomes rare. My main point is that society should support women facing difficult situations rather than judging them. It's interesting how few female lawmakers there are in many countries and how machismo takes precedence over common sense. It's easy for wealthy males to condemn the poor female who aborts, but if we had more interest in adoption, of minority kids especially, and fewer kids growing up in foster care, then people would be more willing to continue their pregnancy. The way to reduce abortion is through education and access to sterilization and other forms of birth control. It is not the case than prohibiting abortion eliminates it; it is driven underground, leading to many women dying from botched operations. The war on drugs is a similar situation. Texas teaches abstinence-only sex ed and has a high teen pregnancy rate, more than 50% above the national average. It's also lamentable how many pregnant females are left to fend on their own by the male who impregnated them. The whole matter is complex and there are many societal shortcomings involved. I'm not here to argue, just to mention some thoughts to ponder. Matt. 19:26

[miz3]

After the first trimester, viability becomes more of an issue and the privacy of the mother less. When education and birth control are available, abortion becomes rare. My main point is that society should support women facing difficult situations rather than judging them. It's interesting how few female lawmakers there are in many countries and how machismo takes precedence over common sense. It's easy for wealthy males to condemn the poor female who aborts, but if we had more interest in adoption, of minority kids especially, and fewer kids growing up in foster care, then people would be more willing to continue their pregnancy. The way to reduce abortion is through education and access to sterilization and other forms of birth control. It is not the case than prohibiting abortion eliminates it; it is driven underground, leading to many women dying from botched operations. The war on drugs is a similar situation. Texas teaches abstinence-only sex ed and has a high teen pregnancy rate, more than 50% above the national average. It's also lamentable how many pregnant females are left to fend on their own by the male who impregnated them. The whole matter is complex and there are many societal shortcomings involved. I'm not here to argue, just to mention some thoughts to ponder. Matt. 19:26

It is not complex at all.

God said "thou shalt not kill".

"‘And you took your sons and daughters whom you bore to me and sacrificed them as food to the idols. Was your prostitution not enough? 21 You slaughtered my children and sacrificed them[e] to the idols. 22 In all your detestable practices and your prostitution you did not remember the days of your youth, when you were naked and bare, kicking about in your blood."

Ezekiel 16:20-22.

Abortion is "killing the children God gave to these women" regardless of circumstance.

God is the Author of Life. No life exists without God being that Life's Author.

Instead of going to God for solutions a pagan philosophy founded the pagan feminism which longs to be "free" is adopted as a solution.

It is very simple my friends, these ones in the womb are God's Children and only God has right to "abort their lives" and no human entity has this right.

Instead of aborting God's Children these "mothers" should be taking their problems/complexities to God and asking for His Help and Guidance concerning His Child inside them.

Abortion (legal/not legal) is never ever and option of the human entity. Abortion is MURDER plain and simple and God will/does hold us accountable (corporately/individually) for every single MURDER OF HIS CHILDREN regardless of reason/motive.

[doug yowell]

It's true.

Undeniably.

[doug yowell]

After the first trimester, viability becomes more of an issue and the privacy of the mother less.

Why? What changes between the last day of the first trimester and the first day of the second? And if the unborn is left to it's natural, God designed course it's viability is almost always guaranteed.

[doug yowell]

When education and birth control are available, abortion becomes rare.

Education and birth control are far more available than at any time in this country's history.Anyone at anytime can obtain it/them. Yet, between 1.2-1.5 million abortions are purchased every year for the past 39 years. The number of abortions dramatically (quadrupled)increased immediately after Roe v. Wade/ Doe v. Bolton. I wouldn't exactly call that rare, would you?

[Nan]

What is the belief of those who consider abortion in every circumstance to be

wrong, if the pregnancy is a genuine threat to the life of the mother?

That would seem to be a choice of who dies...though of course if the mother does not make it through the pregnancy, neither will the child.

I still have memories of my student days when a young mother had been advised never to become pregnant again because of her own, very serious, congenital heart disease. She did conceive again, made it to 32 weeks and both she and the baby died. I can still remember her name, 40 years on, and the tragic scenes.

While that problem could probably be medically managed more effectively these days, such scenarios can still present.

[phkrause]

Education and birth control are far more available than at any time in this country's history.Anyone at anytime can obtain it/them. Yet, between 1.2-1.5 million abortions are purchased every year for the past 39 years. The number of abortions dramatically (quadrupled)increased immediately after Roe v. Wade/ Doe v. Bolton. I wouldn't exactly call that rare, would you?

Excellent point Doug.

[Gerr]

Just jumping in.

Would a pregnancy carried to term be a blessing to a 12 yo victim of rape?

[Guest]

Just jumping in.

Would a pregnancy carried to term be a blessing to a 12 yo victim of rape?

Could be. Have you never seen God take a tragedy, and turn it into a blessing? I have. In fact most of the things that I thought were tragedies at the time, turned out to be blessings.

I could have stepped in and terminated myself, (which I thought about) but then I would never have been able to see the blessing. Or to see the hand of God at work.

[monica]

I can't comprehend how abortion can be a blessing to someone, when miscarriage is one of the worst and heart-breaking experiences ever.

I am almost sure that a woman who has had a miscarriage (and seen the photo of her little baby and heard the heartbeat on an ultrasound) will never choose to abort her "fetus".

[monica]

And to a woman who longs to have a child, from the moment she finds out she´s pregnant, it´s not a "fetus", but her little baby, that she can´t wait to see and hold in her arms.

Maybe it´s all a matter of perspective.

[olger]

forsooth.

About 42 million women in America have something in common. They have had an abortion.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Just jumping in.

Would a pregnancy carried to term be a blessing to a 12 yo victim of rape?

Could be. Have you never seen God take a tragedy, and turn it into a blessing? I have. In fact most of the things that I thought were tragedies at the time, turned out to be blessings.

I could have stepped in and terminated myself, (which I thought about) but then I would never have been able to see the blessing. Or to see the hand of God at work.

And many are glad that you've been here to share those blessings with them!

[doug yowell]

Just jumping in.

Would a pregnancy carried to term be a blessing to a 12 yo victim of rape?

Would killing the living baby within her remove the tragedy of the rape? Would her conscience now become a blessing to her forever? Is eliminating the 8 months of embarrassment,inconvenience,and pain worth the trade-off of a lifetime of knowing what you did to another innocent human being? Would giving up that baby for adoption have any positive effect (blessing) on the life of either the mother or the baby?

[doug yowell]

What is the belief of those who consider abortion in every circumstance to be

wrong, if the pregnancy is a genuine threat to the life of the mother?

That would seem to be a choice of who dies...though of course if the mother does not make it through the pregnancy, neither will the child.

I still have memories of my student days when a young mother had been advised never to become pregnant again because of her own, very serious, congenital heart disease. She did conceive again, made it to 32 weeks and both she and the baby died. I can still remember her name, 40 years on, and the tragic scenes.

While that problem could probably be medically managed more effectively these days, such scenarios can still present.

My opinion is that anyone who condemns abortion in these kind of cases is simply not pro-life but rather pro-death. They would rather see everyone die than for "principle" to be violated. These people are a miniscule % of those who oppose abortion. Roe v. Wade/Doe v. Bolton struck down state laws that did allow for abortion in the case of threat to the mother's life. These types of scenerios rarely if ever exist in our modern western world of medicine yet they are used as a reason why abortion should be freely available for any and all circumstances. The exact circumstances have existed in many other cases in which the mother has been counseled not to have more chldren but gets pregnant anyway and both she and her baby have survived.This is generally accepted as a good reason why the mother should be the one to decide what course of action to take (after all it is her life too). A lousy option that I cannot argue with.

[miz3]

What is the belief of those who consider abortion in every circumstance to be

wrong, if the pregnancy is a genuine threat to the life of the mother?

That would seem to be a choice of who dies...though of course if the mother does not make it through the pregnancy, neither will the child.

I still have memories of my student days when a young mother had been advised never to become pregnant again because of her own, very serious, congenital heart disease. She did conceive again, made it to 32 weeks and both she and the baby died. I can still remember her name, 40 years on, and the tragic scenes.

While that problem could probably be medically managed more effectively these days, such scenarios can still present.

I can empathize with this terrible dilemma. However, it is not our "CHOICE" to make. It is God's "CHOICE". Life and death are God's sole domain.

I agree that humans who have the skill to maintain life should "manage" the situation the best they can. However, the "CHOICE" of who lives and/or dies is the sole province of God. We may not like God's outcome and/or be saddened by His Decision but remember God is cognizant of even the "sparrow who falls".

Unless God Himself boxes the human Doctor into an inescapable corner, I think God is the only One who has the right to decide Life/Death.

[phkrause]

I can empathize with this terrible dilemma. However, it is not our "CHOICE" to make. It is God's "CHOICE". Life and death are God's sole domain.

I agree that humans who have the skill to maintain life should "manage" the situation the best they can. However, the "CHOICE" of who lives and/or dies is the sole province of God. We may not like God's outcome and/or be saddened by His Decision but remember God is cognizant of even the "sparrow who falls".

Unless God Himself boxes the human Doctor into an inescapable corner, I think God is the only One who has the right to decide Life/Death.

I do agree that ultimately Life and Death are God's domain, this is one reason I'm against the death penalty, but I disagree that we don't have a choice. Everything we do in life is a choice. To get up or not, to drive a car intoxicated or not, to smoke or not, to choose Jesus as our Savior or not, to do drugs or not, to ask for forgiveness or not, etc. All life or death decisions, at least in my book. God allows us to make choice's, be they right or wrong. Now do I believe in abortion? No I don't, but I believe that its a choice that is made between an individual and God. And he will do the ultimate judgement of was it the right decision or the right reason for the decision. The choice's we make are how we build character. If we continue to choose to have unprotected sex and than continue to choose to have abortions, what kind of character are we developing? Doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible that character is the only thing we take to heaven with us? or does RGW bring this out? Well it doesn't matter because the choice's we make today will give us the character that will help us made the choice's to stand firm for God in the future. Now that's ny personal opinion.

ps: I don't believe that abortion can be a blessing. But than someone else might think so. And who am I to tell them they are wrong????

[Gerr]

Would a pregnancy carried to term be a blessing to a 12 yo victim of rape?

Would killing the living baby within her remove the tragedy of the rape? Would her conscience now become a blessing to her forever? Is eliminating the 8 months of embarrassment,inconvenience,and pain worth the trade-off of a lifetime of knowing what you did to another innocent human being? Would giving up that baby for adoption have any positive effect (blessing) on the life of either the mother or the baby?

Are you buying a chicken when you buy a fertilized egg?

I would have no qualms giving the "morning-after" pill to any rape victim of any child-bearing age. Asking a rape victim to carry the pregnancy to term is adding insult to the injury, imo.

[Nic Samojluk]

Nan wrote:

“Regarding terminating pregnancy for malformations...if the malformation is incompatible with life outside the womb, I have no moral problems with such a procedure.”

Who decides? Physicians or God? Can doctors accurately predict which unborn baby will be unable to take the first breath? Even anencephalic babies do not necessarily die at birth. Many of them are able to live for days or weeks. Are you saying that whenever we feel that a human being will probably live a few days or weeks, we have the moral right to dismember their bodies or poison them?

“Still not a pleasant procedure to perform, but definitely the lesser of 2 evils.”

A lesser of two evils for whom? The woman or the baby? There have been many documented cases where the physician diagnosis was in error, the woman refused to have the baby aborted, and the life of a normal baby was saved from a sure death.

[Tom Wetmore]

It seems easy to pontificate on an issue if one has never been and never will be in the situation...

Just saying...

[doug yowell]

Are you buying a chicken when you buy a fertilized egg?

Since chickens are never described as "made in the image of God" I'm not sure why one would want to equate the essence of humanity with the barnyard. Yet, one wonders why anyone would buy a fetilized egg if not to get a chicken (I'm no farmer and I don't remember ever ordering scrambled fertilized eggs for breakfast, but certainly no farmer would ever expect to get a chicken from an unfertilized egg).But let's ask a few more questions to get a little more clarity. Since pregnancy after rape is extremely rare giving the morning after pill(soon after),would it guarantee the "abortion" or would it insure the motive to abort? Since we do not yet have the means of detecting pregnancy at that early of a stage would you be willing to take steps to guarantee the same result at a later stage? Say, when the fertilized egg has mysteriously morphed into a detectable embryo at 4-6 weeks? This is when the parties involved KNOW for certainty what the situation is for the rape victim.Do you still attribute a non-moral status to the growing baby? When do you (since you've used yourself as an example)believe that the developing,yet unborn baby attains moral value to God?