WHEN WAS THE DAILY SACRIFICE ABOLISHED?

[miz3]

From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."

Daniel 12:11.

When was this "daily sacrifice" abolished?

[Gibs]

Miz3,

The "daily" is Jesus Christ's ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary and is not yet taken away but is getting close now. Since the text clearly shows this is an end time event this one is not for the "Historicists"

It is seen by some that the 1290 and 1335 days will not come to fruitition and it will only be the 1260 days as the time is to be shortened for the elect's sake and in that case 75 days or 2'1/2 mons. of 30 days.

That is derived from the 42 mos. of Rev. 13 and Rev. 11:2-14. A T Jones way back taught the 42 mos. of Rev 13 can't start until the deadly wound is healed. I am with Jones there. The deadly wound is healed when Martyrdom again begins with the TRUE ONES of God. So not many will be able to discern that time well. The 1'st beast of Rev. 13 will only have 42 mos. to continue to make war with the Saints and that is it period.

What needs to be understood here is the fact if the 42 mos, are past how come the beast is still able to make war? Historists are trumped or stumped right there.

However it is clear that witnessing goes on in Rev 11: and so even though the "daily" is no more, there is a window here for those outside the "camp or temple" that they can be received. That is with the thinking the 42 mos. here is the same time period as in Rev 13:

It is sort of a mystery and not many have views of this that make any sense.

I gave you one. Here is the verses in KJV from Dan.

a 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Da 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Da 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Da 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Da 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[12tribes]

From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."

Daniel 12:11.

When was this "daily sacrifice" abolished?

The word sacrifice is in italics cause it was added by the translators, it is referring to the daily ministry of Christ. Anti means in place of, they have taken the place of the ministry of Christ

[miz3]

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Daniel 9:27.

"His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation."

Daniel 11:31.

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."

Daniel 12:11.

Now that is interesting.

It appears that per the above texts all from Daniel that there are three "put an end to sacrifices" and "three aboninations that cause desolations".

Are these three talking about the same event or are these three different events?

[Gibs]

Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Da 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Da 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The reason I post the KJV is I know it's language and meaning better.

Dan 9:27 the midst of the week of course is when Jesus died on the cross and ended sacrifices and offerings of animals. The overspreading ( down through time ) then He will make it desolate, that is at the consumation. That determined is poured out on the desolated one, Satan the desolator.

Polluting the sanctuary of strength 11:31 is the pollution of the true doctrine which eventually causes Jesus to stand up as it is finished, mybe as no more are coming to His Salvation at that time Satan takes up the place of Christ on earth.

Now 12:11 presents no problem except as I noted before since John sees no 1290 days or 1335 days it is probable those days are shortened for the elect's sake.

All about the same event? It looks to me to be.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

If they are all the same event, as you state then:

1. As you stated Daniel chapter nine took place in the days of Jesus Christ then they all took place in the days of Jesus Christ and thus this is a past event.

2. Then all these texts cannot be talking about future events.

[miz3]

Thus, according to Daniel Chapter nine the "daily sacrifice was abolished" in the days of Jesus Christ.

Thus, also then as the texts state:

"the abominations that cause desolation" also occurred in the days of Jesus Christ.

Again then Daniel is talking about a "past event" and not "a future event" as far as we, today, are concerned.

Both the "daily sacrifice was abolished" and the "abominations that cause desolation" happened in the days of Jesus Christ and are FINISHED.

[Gibs]

Dan 9:27 must be read more carefully, Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He confirmed the covenant with the Jews AD 27 28 29 30 31 32 and AD 33 and when He died in the middle of that week that put an end to the sacrifices.

Then there is the overspreading of abominations after that week even to the comsumation down to the time the determined would be poured out on the desolator. The desolate one is Satan, the desolator. The overspreading is of time down through the ages.

You must remember Jesus didn't become our High Preist until after the crucifiction and He went back to Heaven. He ministers the "daily" in our behalf instead of the daily sacrifice of the lamb slain morning and evening to His death. The "daily" is the perpetual or continual that was to run to Him the TRUE lamb of God slain for the sins of the world.

Hope that little explanation helps some.

Forgive me as I am not a prolific writer or explainer.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Miz3,

This was a controversial subject back yonder with Daniels and Prescott and some others and EGW didn't have no light on the matter.

This is one that must come to light to us here and now. Here is the beginning of the term "the daily".

Da 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

That verse should reveal a lot.

Da 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

A host given him is peoples going along with him and they cast down the truth and practice and prosper. We see that in the churches of today, highly prosperous for the deceiving highly rich preachers of deceit.

Da 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Jesus is "that certain saint" and is asked how long the vision to the "daily sacrifice", transgression of desolation etc.

that certain saint. or, the numberer of secrets, or, the wonderful numberer. Heb. Palmoni. Jg 13:18; Isa 9:6; Mt 11:27; Lu 10:22; Joh 1:18

We know this goes way past the time of Jesus with us. Yes to 1844.

Da 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The prophecy of the 70 weeks is "determined", cut off this time,

Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

More may come to me,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Dan 9:27 must be read more carefully, Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He confirmed the covenant with the Jews AD 27 28 29 30 31 32 and AD 33 and when He died in the middle of that week that put an end to the sacrifices.

Then there is the overspreading of abominations after that week even to the comsumation down to the time the determined would be poured out on the desolator. The desolate one is Satan, the desolator. The overspreading is of time down through the ages.

You must remember Jesus didn't become our High Preist until after the crucifiction and He went back to Heaven. He ministers the "daily" in our behalf instead of the daily sacrifice of the lamb slain morning and evening to His death. The "daily" is the perpetual or continual that was to run to Him the TRUE lamb of God slain for the sins of the world.

Hope that little explanation helps some.

Forgive me as I am not a prolific writer or explainer.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That's not what the text says.

[ClubV12]

A.T. Jones did not teach a "Futurist" view of Daniel, Gibs, you make a false statement in suggesting that he did.

[Lysimachus]

Gibs,

I already showed you in previous posts how 33 A.D. is untenable and mathematically impossible. When will you just concede on one small point and give it up and accept that 33 A.D. has now officially been proven wrong and 34 A.D. stands? Is it so hard? Even Bob Pickle, an expert in mathematics identified your skewed numbers immediately. They don't work.

I wish you would quit bringing in confusion, and stick to inspiration. :(

[Gibs]

Club12,

AT Jones taught that the 42 mos. of Rev 13: couldn't happen until the deadly wound was healed and was not allowed to teach it openly and was shut out as he was not the head but someone else of men was. A T Jones was not popular and he had it right.

Lysimachus, I stand with AD 33 as Jesus did die I find about the last hr of the last day of that year AD 30 and so the prophecy did not fail. The next day or so was a new month and a new year. I will not back off. Thanks. Two passovers two days apart were kept is the reason for the discrepancy .

The prophecy goes on to be proved out as AD 34 was a Jubilee yr, another New Beginning, the Gospel went to the Gentiles. AD 33 was the last yr of the Jubilee cycle. It is all on the Jubilee calendar is how it is reckoned. All the yr for a day prophecies are on the Jubilee calendar the only yr for day calendar there is and was in effect starting yr one with Adam on earth, a Jubilee yr, a new beginning. 457 a Jubilee and 1'st yr of the next cycle. 457 is counted 1 on your count down and finally when the 1 is counted you have 457. Prove it by counting back from 1 through 457. 10 through 1 is 10 same as 1 through 10 is 10. We each are entitled to the freedom of what we find to be the truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Daniel 9:27.

"His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation."

Daniel 11:31.

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."

Daniel 12:11.

Now that is interesting.

It appears that per the above texts all from Daniel that there are three "put an end to sacrifices" and "three aboninations that cause desolations".

It appears that no one can tell me from the Bible and the Bible only when exactly the "daily sacrifice ended/abolished".

It further appears that no one can tell from the Bible and the Bible only when the "abomination that causes desolation" takes place.

All I am getting is human theories and human explanations.

I want to know what the Bible and the Bible only says about this event: when the daily was abolished and the abomination causes desolation takes place?

These texts in Daniel state that both the "daily abolished" and the "abomination that causes desolation" take place at one and the same time.

What I want to know is: When does the Bible and the Bible only say that this event takes place.

[Gibs]

Miz3,

First off since EGW wouldn't come out and take a stand on the "daily" none can go to her writings for substantuation.

The word "sacrifice" is added by the translators. What then is the "daily", perpetual or continual?

Since Jesus went back to heaven and entered the Sanctuary as our High Priest there mineristing there, He is the "daily".

Now since there is only one that can minister in the heavenly Sanctuary in the following verses it is Jesus Christ, the Father's Angel.

I don't think this is the time He stands up and puts on the garments of vengence but does this for the signal for the trumpet angels to begin these plagues. Plagues? Yes, Read, This is after the sixth trumpet,

Re 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Now see Jesus as our High Preist,

Re 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Re 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

I think there is more that could be ascertained but this looks to me to answer the question.

You see it is not abolished until it is finished and that will happen when He stands up and puts on His garments of vengence.

The work of the "daily" will be over.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Miz3,

First off since EGW wouldn't come out and take a stand on the "daily" none can go to her writings for substantuation.

The word "sacrifice" is added by the translators. What then is the "daily", perpetual or continual?

Since Jesus went back to heaven and entered the Sanctuary as our High Priest there mineristing there, He is the "daily".

Now since there is only one that can minister in the heavenly Sanctuary in the following verses it is Jesus Christ, the Father's Angel.

I don't think this is the time He stands up and puts on the garments of vengence but does this for the signal for the trumpet angels to begin these plagues. Plagues? Yes, Read, This is after the sixth trumpet,

Re 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Now see Jesus as our High Preist,

Re 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Re 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

I think there is more that could be ascertained but this looks to me to answer the question.

You see it is not abolished until it is finished and that will happen when He stands up and puts on His garments of vengence.

The work of the "daily" will be over.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

These texts have nothing to do with what Daniel said in his three references concerning the "daily" and concerning "the abomination that brings desolation".

Please give Bible references that show what that the "daily is finished" and show what and when the the "abomination that brings desolation" is.

I still have yet to get an answer. I don't believe SDA actually have an answer to this question.

[Gibs]

Miz3,

If you have a better answer show it to us. And give me all the book name and chap. not just the verse. Do you use the KJV, I thought I saw one on a comment. I prefer it as I understand it the best.

I am interested in what you are seeing as you seem to disagree.

I am saying the daily is still going on but is soon to be taken away and the saints sealed. I wonder if the sealing isn't going on now.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Miz3,

If you have a better answer show it to us. And give me all the book name and chap. not just the verse. Do you use the KJV, I thought I saw one on a comment. I prefer it as I understand it the best.

I am interested in what you are seeing as you seem to disagree.

I am saying the daily is still going on but is soon to be taken away and the saints sealed. I wonder if the sealing isn't going on now.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I already have your answer Gibs. My post asked if SDA have an answer to my questions.

Are you SDA?

[Gibs]

Miz3

Not a SDA in the corporate structure, no but otherwise yes. However I can in no way be a historicist as most are. I don't follow men. I don't claim to see all mysteries but keep learning and searching and looking and looking to Him who is the light.

So I too with you are awaiting a response or comment from some.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Miz3

Not a SDA in the corporate structure, no but otherwise yes. However I can in no way be a historicist as most are. I don't follow men. I don't claim to see all mysteries but keep learning and searching and looking and looking to Him who is the light.

So I too with you are awaiting a response or comment from some.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Apparently SDA Church .org persons who post prolifically on this forum have no answer to my question.

It will be interesting to see if any have an answer and if that answer is credible and Bible and Bible only.

[ClubV12]

Gib's, I'm just wondering, do you accept the reality that Dr. Kellogg apostized from the Seventh-day Adventist church? As did A.T. Jones. Or do you think both men were right and the Adventist church was wrong?

Concerning the Daily Sacrafice, William Miller covered that nicely in 2,300 year prophecy. Since miz3 rejects Millers work and Gib's doesn't recognize the Adventist position on this issue, there is no point in offering my views on the subject. Which are fundamentally Seventh-day Adventist views, which you both know already.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

I didn't know the SDA's had taken an official view of the "daily". To EGW it wasn't time to be known yet and some other things until the "scroll" was finally unrolled. That scroll has be unrolled for many years now.

AT Jones was ahead of most SDA thinkers of his time and EGW was with him on what the church is and many other things. She wrote far more letters to U. Smith to try to settle him down from taking a kingly position and he would claim to repent but I am dubious.

So many were wrongly against Jones and he did become bitter which was his sin but I find he repented of that but his stance was right. Sometimes it is hard when so many come down on you even if you are right it is hard not to be bitter. We must never bow to that. If one is right the Lord is by his side and just hang in there and continue to stand firm.

We of Him are having to do just that. That has always been the case all the way up through time. I rather think the dark ages martyrdom will be small to the one coming as from what I can see on the "horizon". Why? We have come to a more wicked time than then.

Miz3 has asked for what an SDA of today has ideas of as to what the "daily" is and I am interested also. Do you have a view? Don't you believe we should understand that now or do you want to leave it lay?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Gib's you are clearly confusing the time spans in A.T. Jones ministry. Wagner and Jones delivered a powerful message of righteousness by faith which caused a lot of controversy within the church in the 1880's.

This was not the controversy or subject matter that led to Jones apostasy. He denied the Spirit of Prophecy (Ellen White) as inspired and took a job Dr. Kellogg offered him. AGAINST the direct counsel of Ellen White. AGAINST the literal pleading and tears of the Adventist leadership trying to save him from himself.

Some speculate he got a "raw deal" from the brethren, I disagree. I see a tremendous outpouring of love and sympathy in an attempt to help Jone see the error of his ways. Some also speculate he repented in later life. It would be false to say he DID, I will leave that to God. There is no clear evidence as to what his position was.

The pioneers were in perfect harmony as to what the "daily" was. Only later in the 1800's did it become such a contentious issue resulting in much debate and anger Sister While removed herself from the arguments. She had no comment for anybody on either side and some took her "no comment" to mean she DID or DIDN'T support one side or the other. The matter had previously been settled, there was no need to revisit it and stir up trouble.

See William Millers chart as it concerns the 1290 and the 1260 year time frame and you will then know what the pioneers knew and what I know concerning the daily. This is not a complicated issue at all, it is very simple.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

Well if it is simple tell us about it. I too believe EGW knew who was right and who was wrong on the daily issue but didn't want to alienate herself in the controversey. That part is OK by me as I never have had any trouble seeing the truth of the matter.

I will discuss other points with you in another discussion and I was cut off from "real issues in Adventism" as Stan has made it only for the payers or I could continue there, start one where I can work, I cannot be a payer.

Lets hear yours, that is the discussion here.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

ClubV12,

Well if it is simple tell us about it. I too believe EGW knew who was right and who was wrong on the daily issue but didn't want to alienate herself in the controversey. That part is OK by me as I never have had any trouble seeing the truth of the matter.

I will discuss other points with you in another discussion and I was cut off from "real issues in Adventism" as Stan has made it only for the payers or I could continue there, start one where I can work, I cannot be a payer.

Lets hear yours, that is the discussion here.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You see Gibs the SDA cannot tell us when the "daily was abolished" because this FACT is tied to the "abomination that causes desolation is set up".

You see the two events happen together. When one happens, "the daily abolished" then comes immediately "the abomination that causes desolation to be set up".

SDA don't don't know because:

1. It would trash all their unique Sanctuary stuff upon which they rely so much.

2. They cannot show from the Bible and Bible only because they need Ellen White in order to know what the Bible says. Without Ellen White SDA do not know what the Bible says. They depend on her for almost one hundred percent of their views.

This is why there is so much silence from the SDA group on this question. Because Ellen White was "silent" the SDA Church .org is silent. They do not have a clue.