Critique of Walter Veith's Views On Islam

[Patrick Lawrence]

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Okay, so the ‘Protocols’ may or may not be a forgery; the question obtains, have the ‘Elders of Zion’ used the protocols for their furtherance and benefit?

Ford also printed his own thinking re the ‘International Jew’. Have you read the Dearborn letters? Any facts to be found therein?—or are they entirely fraudulent?

So you are saying that they could be real in your view? And that even if they are not they are accurate? And yes Henry Ford was wrong. Not only that he was a direct backer of Hitler and Hitler was also a fan of Ford. And Hitler along with the Nazie used Fords books. In other words Ford has blood on his hands. "The wall behind his desk in Hitler's private office is decorated with a large picture of Henry Ford. In the antechamber there is a large table covered with books, nearly all of which are a translation of a book written and published by Henry Ford.5" http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_06.htm

Hitler said also "I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration," Hitler told a Detroit News reporter two years before becoming the German chancellor in 1933, explaining why he kept a life-size portrait of the American automaker next to his desk. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm

So again unlike Hitler I do not agree with Ford's anit Jewish ideas

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I posed a question in the immediate above and remind: there are Semites and there are Semites who are also anti-Semitic.

It is fraudulent to charge others of being anti-Semitic when practicing anti-Semitism oneself, which today’s Jews do re Palestinians and other Semites.

To clear things up I made it simpler in my other replies. I used anit Jewish. This is much more clear. Plus it can not be twisted around to change the discussion.

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Most ‘conspiracists’ have never heard of the ‘Protocols’.

Depends it was made into a TV mini series in Egypt. It is in Saudi schoolbooks. And it is used all the time across Muslim lands. It is directly linked an inspiration to pretty much every conspiracy writer that modern day writers draw from like Nester, Ford etc. The ones you yourself brought up like Ford and Churchhill were directly related to the protocals. So besides being all around the net today and being republlished by people like Milton William Cooper they are tied into history of these theories.

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Oh, conspiracy is conspiracy no matter the guise. Jewish and/or Zionist conspiracy is only a part of the whole; much of which has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Well, the Mormons believe that they and the Jews will rule earth together. :-(

Except for the roots being in racist conspiracy theories. And just some of the more overt racism being taken out to get a broader appeal.

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Mebbe, for those whose raison d’être is anti-Semitism – a former cottage industry metastasized.

You know I really have to thank you. Your responses have helped show my point better than I could have hoped. As people see your replies in regard to these anti Jewish ideas they can see what a danger this stuff is being mixed with the Gospel. So while I dought very much any fact I would give would change your mind. I think those facts along with your responses will shed some light on the subject to some. Any way I really do honestly thank you. And I really do hope for you only the best. But I also feel sad you believe these things.

Any thanks for the conversation it has been interesting. And I do not mind discussing it further but lets try and step back to some key points to save us both time in replies. That is if you wish to I do not want to take up more of your time than you want to give.

[jasd]

>>One note real fast part of what I post is directly at you and part for the wider audience. These threads already do rank very high on the searchs for Walter Veith and conspiracy theories. So I try to keep in mind responding to you and the readers in the future. Any way I think that will help some when looking at how I respond <<

Okay, I have no problem with that. There is, admittedly, too much chaff everywhere one looks. But that does not relieve one of the obligation to winnow the chaff that value may be found – for there is always value to be found in any given discipline – even those of the left. ;-)

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Perhaps, and then, perhaps you attempt to mitigate things.

>>No I just like to deal in facts. And I find that conspiracy theories can never stick to facts. They like to add made up ones. And they also like to make connections with no proof. Walter Veith is a prime example of this.<<

There are facts and there are facts, and there is ‘interpretation’ of facts; however, there is this about conspiracy theories – one needs only a whiff, not a dissertation, a packet, not a volume – as one needs only a whiff to know when ‘something is rotten in Denmark...,’ if you will. For example: no matter the protestations of the Warren Commission,

“Conspiracy!!” slaps you upside the head at every turn: the Commission’s finding that the one bullet caused seven wounds in both Connelly and Kennedy – later turning up on a stretcher – supposedly falling from Connolly’s clothing!? All that because the rapidity of the shots coming one on the other argued against the preconceived notion of one-shooter – which is, by the way, impossible with the Carcano purportedly used to kill Kennedy!? The Zabruder film... Etc. Conspiracy is alive and well, in DC as in Texas.

The Commission’s findings demonstrate the extent to which a conspiracy will subvert facts to obscure its endeavours toward fulfilling goals.

Besides all that, Jackie Kennedy was Jewish... (I just threw this in as a twofer ;-) [/kidding]

Conspiracy exists. Since time immemorial. Always has, always will. Whether few by number or many, conspiracies are born with the sun’s rising and in moonlight – scattering abundantly as stardust.

Fact of life.

Just try to stay out of their way as so many are treacherously evil.

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And, as I alluded, their commercial interests seem to have had its impetus during the Babylonian Captivity, through the Persian Empire, and were thoroughly entrenched at the time of Alexander’s invasion of the Empire. (I once read that Alexander’s principal historian who accompanied him throughout his campaigns wrote that Alexander feared the Jews of Babylon. Note the “I once read...” as extemporized)

>>Best I can tell you base this on conspiracy theory books.<<

Perhaps, but a seeming sacred verbal formula, “conspiracy theory books” does not nullify.

As I am not proffering either essay or thesis – or dissertation, you’ll have to accept my honesty as well my best recollections. They’re not perfect, but then whose is? Hence the need to sieve the rough for jewels and winnow the chaff for kernels...

[jasd]

>>They base the idea on the Egibi Contracts from Mesopotamia.<<

I think you’ll find that though the theory may be that ‘modern’ banking principles were developed by an Egibi, the fact bears out that it were the priests of Babylon who created the rudiments of predatory lending. However, more to the point,

I may not, but you may – state ‘absolute opinion’?—even though I qualify mine with the words “seem to have”?

Per “Alexander feared the Jews...” – I was once interested in Alexander the Great and had collected and read about 30 books on the subject. It may have been Antonia Fraser’s book from which I draw my recollection, yet, it may be another; however, be assured that none of them were “conspiracy theory” by any definition. Though arguably not perfect, they represent best assessment of history.

>>They say that Egibi is a form of Jacob. This seems have been an error started in the anti-semetic conspiracy world of the late 19th century when were found. As best I can tell there is no good evidence this name is a form of Jacob. And the idea has long been disproven. But it is one of those old falsehood pulled up as fact in modern banking conspiracy theory books.<<

I certainly can’t attest that Egibi is or is not a form of Jacob; however, according to Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat, evidence of the lending family of Egibi keeps cropping up in the archives of Babylonian cuneiform tablets.

That Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat wrote that international commerce was dominated by other than Babylonians – gives pause...

and may reflect the reason so few Jews elected to return with Ezra and Nehemiah. The smell of increase in the city is more delightful than the smell of increase in the farmyard.

Who could blame them?

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Listen, is all of this (contents of your post) because I characterized the Rothchild family as “TurboShark”?

Quote:Patrick Lawrence

No it is because I know the history of conspiracy theories. And as mentioned I am also talking to a wider audience.

Okay, I asked as you seem to be making out that the entirety of ‘conspiracy’ is rooted in anti-Semitism, which I think, misleads...

It may be possible that the Oriental, the Anglo-Saxon, Papists, Muslims, as well the plain nutsoes – may, sub-rosa, be contesting the Jews in their own fashion for world domination.

Hoo-yah!—gonna be a good time on the old earth tonite, eh?—enough hootin’ and hollerin’ to last through the remaining fires of the age... Me sees total destruction, but more than that the debilitation of man’s soul, and then what?—an age where our remaining progeny are lenticular miasma?

Oooo, conspiracy baaad...

[jasd]

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Whoa there, Patrick. Hyperbole? Are Palestinians Semites? Of course, they are. Who was it that drove them from their villages and murdered the elderly, throwing them into wells to pollute the waters?—prior to Partition.. Mebbe, the Stern Gang?—the Irgun Gang?—the Lehi Gang?—the Haganah Gang?—etc, eh?

>>You know what I am refering two. A Jew doing something wrong does not change the history of what "Christians" have done to Jews. Nor does it change the facts that conspiracy theories have come out of this hatred for Jews. That is why it has to be discussed but the history of the two is connected.<<

I mentioned Jews as anti-Semites to indicate the hypocrisy of the ubiquitous and indiscriminate use of the bugaboo “Anti-Semitic!”

I recall ‘modern’ conspiracy theories as basically arising from the Weishaupt incident and from member lists of Masonic Lodges.

>>A Jew doing something wrong does not change the history of what "Christians" have done to Jews.<<

Can you refute the evidence that the International Jew seized Czarist Russia – forming what became the USSR (with the commensurate exportation of their devastating ‘ideas’)? If not, then you must accept that Jews, given power, can and will do as anyone else having absolute power over others. “Christians” noted.

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The thinking was that when the issue of a Jewish homeland in Palestine came before the General Assembly of the UN – the more land held, the better the claims...

Now, that’s troubling – especially since these same [Eastern] Europeans (for the large part) were loudly travailing, “Never again!—this time we’ll bring down the Halls of Civilization with us.”

You cannot do that without money and POWER! And to even speak that is to admit to conspiracy...

>>Yes I well understand the history of modern Israel. And also the good and bad done on each side. But I see no grand conspiracy. By the way are you paraphrasing something with the quote?<<

So then, it doesn’t do for the pot to call the kettle black, yes? It is delegitimizing.

Mebbe, not so “grand”, as disturbing?—and yes, my “in quotes” was a paraphrase. My bad, it ought to have been in ‘semi-quotes’.

[Patrick Lawrence]

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there is this about conspiracy theories – one needs only a whiff,

Yes it does not take even any real facts to make people get off into while theories.

And there are real plots. But I will stick with real ones like the Gunpowder Plot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_Plot . And I will stay away from the ones that use false information etc.

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Perhaps, but a seeming sacred verbal formula, “conspiracy theory books” does not nullify.

As I am not proffering either essay or thesis – or dissertation, you’ll have to accept my honesty as well my best recollections. They’re not perfect, but then whose is? Hence the need to sieve the rough for jewels and winnow the chaff for kernels...

My point I can't find fact to back up the statements. Hence best I can tell the only source is conspiracy theory books using false facts as best I can trace it so far.

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I think you’ll find that though the theory may be that ‘modern’ banking principles were developed by an Egibi, the fact bears out that it were the priests of Babylon who created the rudiments of predatory lending. However, more to the point,

I may not, but you may – state ‘absolute opinion’?—even though I qualify mine with the words “seem to have”?

Per “Alexander feared the Jews...” – I was once interested in Alexander the Great and had collected and read about 30 books on the subject. It may have been Antonia Fraser’s book from which I draw my recollection, yet, it may be another; however, be assured that none of them were “conspiracy theory” by any definition. Though arguably not perfect, they represent best assessment of history.

If you trace back the idea Egibi was a Jews its roots are in the anti jewish culture of the time. That is why modern historians do not tend to claim this. But it is repeated in all the anti jewish banking books.

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I certainly can’t attest that Egibi is or is not a form of Jacob; however, according to Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat, evidence of the lending family of Egibi keeps cropping up in the archives of Babylonian cuneiform tablets.

That Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat wrote that international commerce was dominated by other than Babylonians – gives pause...

and may reflect the reason so few Jews elected to return with Ezra and Nehemiah. The smell of increase in the city is more delightful than the smell of increase in the farmyard.

Who could blame them?

Yes the name comes up because it is a basic Babylonian name. It does not refer at all to Jews. And to suggest that Jews were involved in the banking is just guesse. Yet it is being propogated by anti Jewish groups trying to show the history of the greedy jewish banker.

more in next post.

[Patrick Lawrence]

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Okay, I asked as you seem to be making out that the entirety of ‘conspiracy’ is rooted in anti-Semitism, which I think, misleads...

Many of them are. Mainly the ones related to banking and shodowy forces taking over the world behind the scenes. Thats just the facts

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I mentioned Jews as anti-Semites to indicate the hypocrisy of the ubiquitous and indiscriminate use of the bugaboo “Anti-Semitic!”

I recall ‘modern’ conspiracy theories as basically arising from the Weishaupt incident and from member lists of Masonic Lodges.

This clearly is not just that. When people are writing books about the evil jews. And pushing the protocals etc.

As for Adam Weishaupt illumanti he has been used by conspiracy theorists but is not the root. And they have not used the illumanti historicly but morphed it into other things. For example David Icke and his "Illuminati protocols" combining the false illuminati ideas with the protocls. And I just use it because it is an easy example. Any was as I said these things are so so intertwined as to be inseparable.

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Can you refute the evidence that the International Jew seized Czarist Russia – forming what became the USSR (with the commensurate exportation of their devastating ‘ideas’)? If not, then you must accept that Jews, given power, can and will do as anyone else having absolute power over others. “Christians” noted.

Can you rephrase that so I make sure I am replying to what you ment and not what I think you ment.

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So then, it doesn’t do for the pot to call the kettle black, yes? It is delegitimizing.

Mebbe, not so “grand”, as disturbing?—and yes, my “in quotes” was a paraphrase. My bad, it ought to have been in ‘semi-quotes’.

No really it is comparing apples to oranges trying to take the focus off of the truth. Much like for example saying the US is just as bad as the Nazis. And using the example that we had a segragated armed forces.

more....

[Dr. Rich]

"And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. AND the whole earth (everyone) was amazed and followed after the beast (One World Government)." Rev. 13:3 Could only be the Jews as no other major religion lost their way of worship because of a war.

[jasd]

>>Just to add a little bit to the anti Jewish info.<<

Oy!—no mas with the anti-Semite...? Too high octane, yes? ;-)

>>If you look at most of the main influences behind modern conspiracy theories<<

So, mebbe there is something, after all?—y’know, the ‘where there’s smoke there’s fire’ axiom?

>>Eustace Mullins who wrote The Secrets of The Federal Reserve. Mr Mullins was one of the main driving forces behind the modern conspiracy theory movement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustace_Mullins And notice he was also famed for his antisemitism. Read the section on his beliefs on the evil Jewish conspiracy.

Mullins seems to have been brought into these ideas by Ezra Pound. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound . Pond also was very anti Jewish. He wrote an article for example titled "The Jews, Disease Incarnate.". Also "He wrote to James Laughlin that Roosevelt represented Jewry, and signed the letter "Heil Hitler." He started writing for Action, a newspaper owned by the British fascist, Sir Oswald Mosley, arguing that the Third Reich was the "natural civilizer of Russia." After war broke out in September 1939, he began a furious letter-writing campaign to the politicians he had petitioned six months earlier, arguing that the war was the result of an international banking conspiracy, and that the United States should keep out of it.[69]"<<

I’ve read the man before but had no idea how consumed he was with the ‘Jewish’ question. I am too old, goin’ South and heading left – to read his voluminous writings.

>>Another main driving force behind the theories was Nesta Helen Webster. And guess what she was also an anti-Semite. And no only that she was an occultist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nesta_Webster She was one of the people that helped right the charming book The Jewish Peril. And that book is based in many ways on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion I mentioned.<<

Funny, I never could get ‘Protocols’ from the library. You suppose...? Nah..., why would anyone object to a silly forgery?—and the book itself was topical; unless..., nah, you don’t suppose... Nah.

Could get, though – every sort of drivel from the library, otherwise.

However Mullins and Webster came by their idiosyncracies, it remains that they were latecomers to... how would you put it?—prevailing anti-Semitic impulses. I believe I mentioned both

Weishaupt and Masonic Lodges: one who predated Mullins and Webster by a good century and the other by centuries.

>>As I said you can not talk about conpiracy theories without talking about the anti Jewish feelings behind them.<<

Mebbe not so much “anti Jewish” feelings – but simple dread of what they seem capable of doing (witness the Soviet Union). Fear, as found in Writ, ...in History, ...and presently.

“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." -- Ariel Sharon (purported by some as a fraudulent quote)

[supposedly] this was reported on State of Israel Radio Kol Ysrael of an acrimonious exchange, which erupted during an Israel Cabinet session... in 2001.

Verifiable?—some think not. Okaaay, how about another quote from Sharon which is verified by the Ha'aretz:

“Every appointee to the American government must endure a thorough background check by the American Jewish community.”

As we say out here where we wake up to fatback, grits, and coffee, “What’s the dif’?” ;-)

Spells like c-o-n-s-p-i-r-a-c-y to me.

But who is conspiring? --Pogo

[jasd]

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This did Edward even to his own Barons (the privilege of nobility).

>>Yes proving my point that the Jews were not in control.<<

Point taken. Edward expelled them from England. Seems, as one expects, that Kings rule.

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Edward had a mighty issue with the idea that some one or others possessed more than he in assets – in his own kingdom, yet.

.

>>Sure so it is OK then to round up and kill jews and make them ware a yellow patch because they had to much money?<<

No, that is not what is meant. It also does not mean that it is healthy to compile sundry incidents to fashion one’s cause célèbre. Me so victim.

It is best summed up by the axiom: “you don’t want to be the only Methodist in a Catholic parish when things go bad – or the only cracker in the ‘hood when things be gettin hella ugly.”

Ipso facto, to large part, Jews chose not to assimilate. They were, throughout history, almost always the odd one out. Not smart. A person who doesn’t want to play smart ought to make him/herself invisible. Not wanting to, then that person has to learn to just suck it up.

.>>Also as I am sure you know the problem is the Kings finances at the time was the fuedal system not Jewish bankers. The system had inherent weaknesses when it came to raising money. So kings tended to be always in search of money.<<

It was both. That is one means whereby the Medieval Jew sought the King’s good grace, as did all the King’s subjects. One used his means, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, when loans plus usury became too unbearable for the borrower to repay – the borrower simply arranged for the lender’s demise. It was this situation that caused the King to make himself bequeathed of the monies outstanding on the lender’s ledger – to forestall the arbitrary killings.

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Well, there is nothing complimentary one might say of evil; however, one might mitigate the charges by the fact that it was during insufferable times, persecutions, and expulsions, that many Talmuds were confiscated and translated. All contributing to no good for the persecuted, for there were outrageous things found within the confiscated Talmuds.

>>Sorry I do not think it mitigates it at all. Not to mention many of the ruotes used against the Jews were fake. Here is an 1892 example that was mainly from earlier sources.<<

It is not a strong suit to so often recourse to the arguments – Conspiracy theories are fake, Churchill’s quote is fake, Protocols are fake, translations from the Talmud are fake, and so on... That is weak and not conducive in making a dialogical point, as they must ultimately be rejected for their very common occurrence. Inevitably the questions lead back to, “Why do these charges so relentlessly attach to World Jewry throughout the ages. Can so many charges be fake?”—or is there substance where it is claimed that none exist?

[jasd]

>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Talmud_Unmasked <<

Re: The Talmud Unmasked by Pranaitis

“...most of the quotes are accurate, some are fabricated, and others are taken out of context.”

I call your attention to the bolded in the above, especially as the wikepedia entry was disparaging. It seems that to avoid editing of the entry – it had to acknowledge by qualifier – that “most of [Pranaitis’] ... quotes are accurate”

“Do not have any pity on them, for it is said…Show no mercy with them. Therefore, if you see an Akum in difficulty or drowning, do not go to his help. And if he is in danger of death, do not save him from death.” –Maimonides (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon), the most highly esteemed Pharisee in the history of Judaism, concerning the Akkum/Gentile.

“...there is justification for killing babies if it is clear they will grow up to harm us.” –Ma’ariv, Tel Aviv newspaper; quoting from The King’s Torah, 2010

Err, nits become lice, eh?

“[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs.” -- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"

--Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

Any truth to the above?

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." --Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial." --Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Doesn’t sound like a beaten-down and woebegone people, does it?

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."

--Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

Are you familiar with the term “Eretz Ysrael”? What would that, prima facie, imply?

“We believe with absolute certitude that right now, with the White House in our hands, the Senate in our hands and The New York Times in our hands, the lives of others do not count the same way as our own.” --Arieh Shavit. Israeli journalist

”We (Jews) have erred, my friend; we have most grievously erred. And if there was truth in our error 3,000, 2,000, nay, 100 years ago, there is now nothing but falseness and madness... a madness that will produce an even greater misery and an even wider anarchy.

I confess it to you, openly and sincerely, and with a sorrow whose depth and pain an ancient Psalmist, and only he, could moan into this burning universe of ours. . .

We who have posed as the saviours of the world; we who have even boasted of having given it "the" Saviour; we are today nothing else but the world's seducers, its destroyers, its incendiaries, its executioners.

We who have promised to lead you to a new Heaven, we have finally succeeded in leading you into a new Hell. . .” --Dr Oscar Levy, translated from the Russian Nilus

Oscar Levy, ROYAL SOCIETIES CLUB; ST. JAMES STREET, LONDON, S.W. JULY, 1920

Letter printed in the Dearborn Independent - Issue of April 30, 1921

Ummm, Dearborn?—does the foregoing excerpt of Dr Levy’s letter then be thought null and fraudulent?

“It is not meet to take the children’s bread , and to cast [it] to the dogs.” --Jesus Christ, reflecting the culture wherein He abode and speaking in a manner well understood by the woman of Canaan.

Truths need candor.

[jasd]

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Non, non, dear fellow. The complaints have been lodged since Before Christ, and even those of great influence in the mighty Roman Empire noted the extent which Jews controlled by monopoly the trades, the lending, and the precious metals. I remind...:

The First century Seneca who wrote of the then Jews, “...have gained such strength that they have now been received in all lands. The conquered have given laws to the conquerors.” [/ed.jasd]

Granted, that this was before the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem; however, the takeaway is: though conquered, they wielded unnatural influence.

The Jew, bless their everlovin’ peapickin’ hearts, are nothing if not resilient. My wife is largely Jewish, as is my ex, and is my son in part by marriage to my ex, as is my most dear friend of near fifty years part Jewish, as is the ‘Capo’ (as it were) of my greater family... etc. No formidable antipathy against Jews found here. Neither is there found the tendency to avert one’s eyes from the unpleasant found here.

There are Jews and there are Jews. There are those who do good and there are those who do evil. It is like this in and with every facet of every society.

The Jews of my family recognize evil as well as good – and note it.

>>You say basicly there have always been evil Jewish bankers. BUT BUT some of my best friends are Jews.<<

I proffered ‘my family’ so as to avoid leaving myself helplessly exposed to the all too pervasive charge of ‘anti-Semitism’, and to indicate that my observations are more objective than pejorative (as well, they are shared).

Coupla things: if you’d read more carefully you’d have seen that I stated more immediately, “my family” – that’s FAMILY, with the intimate adjunctive “my most dear friend of near fifty years”. That said,

though I do believe that there were/are despicably evil bankers, Jews included – I did not write that. And should it have been implied it would have been inclusive – with all evil. Second, should I have also said, “BUT BUT some of my best friends are Jews” – how may the two sentences of your quote have relativized?

Evil bankers are evil of their own accord, notwithstanding my family and friends.

Tsk, tsk, one cannot be too careful with facts, yes?

Should it seem that I approach the issue raised disrespectfully, take heart, for my manner is more for fear than not; however, note that: the Sephardim in America, believe as I – that the Oriental Ashkenazim represent violent excess.

[Patrick Lawrence]

Hey jasd my replies got deleted in the restore. I will try and get a chance to redo them.

[jasd]

>>Hey jasd my replies got deleted in the restore. I will try and get a chance to redo them.<<

Not to worry... I intend submitting only a few more posts to the subject and then letting my submissions to this thread go to chrysalis.

It seems a matter dear to your philosophies - so, I'll be stepping off your toes...

Besides, too much to place before so few.

[Patrick Lawrence]

Thanks for understanding just been busy. And I honestly do not mind talking about this stuff. Just as long as it comes across I am doing so in a friendly way. It is hard some times to get across friendly and teasing etc in plain text.

[jasd]

M-m-m-mea Culpa. [/soto voce]

Necessary apologies extended to the concerned parties.

Say What!? --Pogo