The loss of frock

[Gordon1]

Sadly Elder Andreasen was defrocked and had to live the rest of his life off welfare.

He bore the cost of whistle-blowing = destroy the man.

A message from the leadership to all other protestants.

[tall73]

http://www.bible.ca/7-white-inpsired-100-pastors-fired.htm

A list of ministers who left for theological disagreement with Ellen White is posted on that site, thought it is incomplete.

[Kevin H]

I wonder how old the list was as I recognize at least one name of someone who had either left or was fired for this issue, but then returned in the 1990s.

The thing that I find sad about this list is how it is a fulfillment of A. G. Daniel's prediction that we needed to be open with the facts as to how Mrs. White's inspiration works, that the fundamentalist approach applied to her writings would end up spelling disaster for the church. He, Elder Prescott, Willie White and the Professors of the Religion Department tried hard to tell the truth about how inspration worked, and at the 1923 General Conference these faithful servents of God: well Daniel's was voted out of the General Conference Presidency, Prescott was demoted, Willie White got to keep his title and office and paycheck, but his office was stripped of all power so basically he was defrocked with an office and paycheck, and the religion faculty of Washington Missionary College was fired and there were witch hunts for others in the church who believed like they did.

Now the new General Conference President, Elder Spicer, was seen as almost as big a heritic as the people on this list since he held the save view of Mrs. White's inspriation as Daniels, Prescott, and White, but he was a Fundamentalist towards the Bible (he believed in two different types of inspration, one for the Bible, another for Mrs. White.) [As for me I believe in one type of inspration, what these men believed about Mrs. White applys to both Mrs. White and the Bible]. But unlike Elder Daniels, Elder Spicer felt that it did not harm anything if people were to hold a fundamentalist approach to Mrs. White. Thus he was seen as willing to keep his heresy to himself.

How many on this list could have stayed faithful had we not made the wrong choices in 1923.

[miz3]

http://www.bible.ca/7-white-inpsired-100-pastors-fired.htm

A list of ministers who left for theological disagreement with Ellen White is posted on that site, thought it is incomplete.

Very interesting!

Yet we are told repeatedly including on this forum that belief in Ellen White is not a "test of church membership".

Thus, we have another SDA Church .org lie.

It also demonstrates that the SDA Church .org practices that Ellen White and her writings are more authoritative than the Bible.

The SDA Church .org denies this (yet another lie) but we can only judge her by her practices.

[ClubV12]

Miz3, it is NOT a test of fellowship!!! That is a true statement!!! You cannot be removed from Church membership simply because you are not convinced concerning the Spirit of Prophecy.

So WHAT is the issue? Sister White herself clears it up, those who openly "fight against" (her words) the Testimonies. That principle applies to ALL Church members. If your TEACHING against the SOP, preaching AGAINST the SOP in the pulpit, you are subject to Church discipline of some kind. Up and including disfellowship.

As an ordained Minister you are representing the Church and it's beliefs on a world wide scale. In that capacity you are held to a higher standard that just a Church member. That principle is clear in the bible, James in particular address' it.

I certainly DON'T want ANY Minister being paid by tithe, representing the Adventist Church, preaching in the pulpit in an Adventist Church who cannot support a belief in the Testimonies, in the Spirit of Prophecy. Such should be removed from the ministry, let them be ordinary members if they choose to be. Let them seek employment in some other capacity.

Is their some law of the land that says ANY Church HAS (is forced) to accept as a Minister or even a TEACHER in a private school those who do not support that institutions fundamental beliefs? No, there is no such law, the Church, the private school, have the legal, moral, ethical right to determine who will represent that body of believers they work for. Those workers need to meet certain minimum standards, I'm OK with that.

[miz3]

This just shows that although the SDA Church .org says it is open to the truth that it is really not.

They will cling to their unBiblical positions of the Sanctuary/Investigative Judgment/1844 fantasy because they actually believe that Ellen White is superior to the Bible.

The Bible and the Bible only do not teach even a smidgin of anything in regard to the fantasy Sanctuary/Investigative Judgment/1844 doctrine. It all comes from Ellen White and only Ellen White because she believed what she was taught by the Protestant Reformation.

[CoAspen]

I can only conclude that you were a bit bored when starting this topic!

[tall73]

I wonder how old the list was as I recognize at least one name of someone who had either left or was fired for this issue, but then returned in the 1990s.

Yeah I wondered that too. Doesn't look like it was updated much.

[Woody]

I can only conclude that you were a bit bored when starting this topic!

You know me far too well. And now that I am sober - I am wishing I hadn't.

[ClubV12]

It did take a nasty turn somewhere along the pleasant Sunday afternoon drive we were having...

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

I wonder how old the list was as I recognize at least one name of someone who had either left or was fired for this issue, but then returned in the 1990s.

Yeah I wondered that too. Doesn't look like it was updated much.

Besides the one name on the list who had left or fired but then returned to the Adventist ministry in the 1990s, there was another name of someone I knew from college. I have not seen him in years and have not heard from strong sources but only heard this through "the grapevine" but apperently he did not give up Mrs. White but had a more liberal view of inspiration than the members liked and thus stopped working for the church. I would not be surprised if that is true since his personallity was one that could have used more tact with what he knew. So that name may not really be what the list was trying to show. Hey, I've had similar problems with Remanant Online Forum and I'm a lot more tactful than that one guy was.

So again I wonder how old that list was since I recognize one name who did leave for those reasons but came back, and another name who apperently did not reject Mrs. White just had a view that was more liberal than the members he was working with.

[Gordon1]

I certainly DON'T want ANY Minister being paid by tithe, representing the Adventist Church, preaching in the pulpit in an Adventist Church who cannot support a belief in the Testimonies, in the Spirit of Prophecy.

Let's remember this includes diet reform (no meat, 2 meals), country living, home schooling for the first decade, one wife (no serial divorce-remarriage), etc. That's her testimony for ministers.

Do any support her Testimonies, in practice or in preaching? All are receiving tithe.

[ClubV12]

You can go off the deep end and become a fanatic in regards to the standards for defrocking a Minister if you want Gordon1, as for me I will uphold and support those minimum standards the G.C. has established.

Like belief in Ellen White as an inspired messenger of God, thats a minimum standard for a Minister of the Adventist Church. How each of us, including Ministers, choose to apply her counsel to our individual lives and families, let each man be convicted in his own heart. Time and place should be carefully considered on an individual basis.

Ellen White says she stopped eating meat immediately after she had a health vision concerning that issue. And she DID, she starved herself for a few days until she was hungry enough to eat some bread. Which she previously despised. Meat was huge part of her diet. Afterward, she partook of it only when there were no better alternatives. We have known instances of her continuing to eat meat, on occasion, for decades after that! So what's going on with that?

For some that will be a hook to hang their doubts on, to question her counsel. Others will see that time and place have to be considered, Sister White was extremely practical, reasonable, balanced. On the road in the 1800's, in a wagon, with mules, traveling for thousands of miles, through indian country with the possibility of being attacked by them, with many others in your party? How much fruit, vegetables, bread were available at the country store just down the road? There were no country stores, period. You ate what you could hunt and gather along the trail, and were thankful for what the Lord provided. Two meals? Somedays the Whites were fortunate enough to eat one. For office workers, her counsel is ONE meal a day. Time and place Gordon, don't be a fanatic.

[CoAspen]