Justification/Salvation in John's writings

[Dr. Rich]

I would agree with you Robert except for ONE thing, and that is that we are commanded (yes, a commandment I would suggest) to LOVE God. If you Love God, then you automaticaly have agape type of love. Therefore, it is impossible to keep all ten of the commandments without fully loving God by respecting Him and His words, them being what Jesus brought to this earth to testify too in order to know exactly what it takes for salvation.

[Robert]

I would agree with you Robert except for ONE thing, and that is that we are commanded (yes, a commandment I would suggest) to LOVE God.

The first four commandments deal with our relationship to God. The last six deal with our relationship to one another, our neighbors and so on. Jesus said to this young man, “Love your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your being; that’s the first commandment. The second is like the first: love your neighbors like you love yourself.” Just like you naturally, spontaneously, unconditionally love yourself, that’s the way you must love your neighbors now.

If God gives me this agape as a gift, so that I may, in turn, return it back to Him by keeping the first four commandments, you make God selfish. He gives you His love that it may come back to Him. That is why you will find almost nowhere — it’s hardly found in the New Testament — where we are told to keep the first four commandments.

Does it mean that God doesn’t want us to keep the first four commandments? No. But the way we keep the commandments is by belief. Please look at 1 John 3:23. Two things are required of you:

And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love (agape) one another as he commanded us.

That is how you and I can keep the first four commandments. In other words, the basis of keeping the first four commandments is faith. If I have faith, I will have only one God, no other. If I have faith, I will not rest in my performance, or in the government, or in Social Security; I will rest in the Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus Christ. If you are keeping the Sabbath without the faith motive, you are not keeping the Sabbath, according to the commandments. The only way you and I can keep the first four commandments is by faith alone. That’s all that God wants from you.

So God gives you agape, not that it may go back to Him. All He wants from you is faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. He gives you this agape, not that it may go back vertically (it comes down vertically) but that it may go back horizontally to our neighbors.

[Dr. Rich]

stop cut and pasting scripture Robert, as you need to read the whole context to know the real truth. God gave you the power of choice and it is up to YOU to make the right choice. It is a false belief to think one can 'stop driving and move over to the passenger side and let God drive. It's also a false belief to think one can 'die daily' as that just is a silly thing to even talk about. Why? Because if you die, that's it.

We are who we are and we have to make choices all the time. Read the prophecy about the Master giving talents to three men and leaving. They could NOT pick up their cell phones and ask the master what to do with the talents, they had to make the choice themselves. This prophecy is just after the one about the ten bridesmaids. Jesus is NOT here to make the choice for you my friends, YOU MUST do this yourself and do it right.

Sure, we have the words of Jesus to abide by in order to make the right choice, but it is OUR own choice.

[Guest]

stop cut and pasting scripture Robert, as you need to read the whole context to know the real truth.

We are in agreement. Mark this day on your calendar. I've already marked mine.

[phkrause]

I would agree with you Robert except for ONE thing, and that is that we are commanded (yes, a commandment I would suggest) to LOVE God. If you Love God, then you automaticaly have agape type of love. Therefore, it is impossible to keep all ten of the commandments without fully loving God by respecting Him and His words, them being what Jesus brought to this earth to testify too in order to know exactly what it takes for salvation.

I'd like to see that verse that God says "I command you to LOVE Me?"

[Lysimachus]

I don't think we as Adventists have doubted that "entole" is speaking of more than just the Ten Commandments. But to exclude them would be to ignore the words of Jesus to the Rich Young Ruler, as in all 3 epistles, He clearly alluded to the Decalogue when referring to "THE commandments", and those that we must keep if we will "enter life".

The Decalogue is simply the "hub", or "back-bone" to the "entole". The entole encompasses every branch that branches out from the Decalogue, but the Decalogue is specifically referring to the core.

The book of Revelation is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ". They are Jesus's words. The same Jesus that spoke to the Rich Young Ruler when referring to the Decalogue of not killing, stealing, committing adultery, honoring your parents, and not bearing false witness. When Jesus spoke to this Jewish Rich Young Ruler for the first time, Jesus knew that the only "entole" this Jewish man would be aware of were the Ten Commandment Decalogue. Hence, the Rich Young Ruler responded, "I have kept these since my childhood". When Jesus revealed to John the Revelator that God's end-time people will be those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, without question, this same Jesus who spoke to the Rich Young Ruler was including those SAME Decalogue commandments in the "entole". Had a different word been used in Revelation, such as "logos", many may have misinterpreted it to mean that all we must keep are those 10 and no more. But no, since the commandments of God branch off into so many more areas than just besides the Ten, for which the Decalogue is simply the "foundation", or "backbone", or "trunk", it was necessary therefore for Jesus to use a "broader term" when speaking to John the Revelator.

In concluding, the Greek word Entole was the right word for John to use, and it most certainly included all 10 of God's commandments.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

I would agree with you Robert except for ONE thing, and that is that we are commanded (yes, a commandment I would suggest) to LOVE God. If you Love God, then you automaticaly have agape type of love. Therefore, it is impossible to keep all ten of the commandments without fully loving God by respecting Him and His words, them being what Jesus brought to this earth to testify too in order to know exactly what it takes for salvation.

I'd like to see that verse that God says "I command you to LOVE Me?"

Hmmm? Guess you do not know the bible as well as you thought you did, see Deuteronomy 30:16.

[phkrause]

That's not God ordering us to Love him! Its Moses ordering the people of Israel ordering the people to love God. I want the verse where God orders us to Love him? Not Moses!

[Dr. Rich]

Guess you didn't read Deut. 31:1 where Moses later spoke those words, but the words did come from God and were given to Moses, so it was God who said that my friend. It was God who gave the two choices, to choose life or death, not Moses. Now read Deut. 11:1, that is Moses repeating what God told him there too.

By the way PK, read my post on this again and you will not see where I ever said that "God commanded us to love Him", I said "we are commanded to love God" and that is the truth my friend. I just pointed out a few places where we are commanded to love God, I did not say by who. And besides, why are you even making such a big fuss over this? Is this something that you don't believe in?

[phkrause]

Guess you didn't read Deut. 31:1 where Moses later spoke those words, but the words did come from God and were given to Moses, so it was God who said that my friend. It was God who gave the two choices, to choose life or death, not Moses. Now read Deut. 11:1, that is Moses repeating what God told him there too.

What words????

Deut 31:1 Moshe went and spoke the following words to all Isra'el: No words of what your speaking of?????

[Dr. Rich]

The words that were just before this verse.

[phkrause]

By the way PK, read my post on this again and you will not see where I ever said that "God commanded us to love Him", I said "we are commanded to love God" and that is the truth my friend. I just pointed out a few places where we are commanded to love God, I did not say by who. And besides, why are you even making such a big fuss over this? Is this something that you don't believe in?

Its being implied though. I have no problem with Moses, Isaiah, Pastor Doug Batchelor, etc. commanding us to love God. But God himself has not said those words to us. He wants us to choose to Love him. He never orders or commands us to love him. I see that nowhere in the Bible.

[Dr. Rich]

Ok, thanks for explaining that. So what do you do with the first 3 commandments if you don't call that commanding love for Him?

[whatisthis]

Aren't all God's commands enablings? It seems to me like when Jesus "commanded" the sea and the winds with the words "peace, be still." He gave the peace. He IS love, gives love, "commands" love--a poetic way to put it could be, "Undone by love and yet enabled, I make this helpless stand. For love like Yours a beckoning is--a tyranny of sweet command."