Dr. Herbert Douglass On Abortion and "Planned Parenthood"

[tall73]

So, nothing to offer but rumor and speculation Tall73?

I think you data is flawed and your opinions misplaced,,,, "brother".

http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/holy-cross-wins-battle-hotly-contested-maryland-county

Adventist, which had sought to build a $177 million, 86-bed acute care hospital just a few miles away in Clarksburg, has voiced several objections to the Holy Cross plan – included a bitterly contested charge that Holy Cross’ Catholic mission would prevent the new hospital from allowing such community services as abortions, fertility treatments, tubal litigations and hormonal contraception.

“The availability of reproductive information, counseling, support and services for women in Montgomery County is … a matter of serious concern,” stated a 105-page document of exceptions filed in early January by Adventist officials in the wake of a Dec. 17 report by MHCC Chairman Marilyn Moon in favor of the Holy Cross proposal. “Having identified the importance of this issue and having made a specific finding that there will be no substantive negative impact of approving (Holy Cross Hospital-Germantown), the recommended decision should state the evidence on which this conclusion is based.”

[tall73]

So, nothing to offer but rumor and speculation Tall73?

I think you data is flawed and your opinions misplaced,,,, "brother".

You think an article from the Adventist review is speculation?

[ClubV12]

miz3 would! All opinions are welcome, yes? Everyone is welcome, right?

So, brother, I think your logic is flawed and your opinion is wrong, that just my opinion offered in a spirit of helping another out.

As we continually see this kind spirit at work around here and allowed to continue for, oh, say ELEVEN posts in a row or so, I'm sure you will agree: No problem! Right?

Book, chapter and verse,,, please.

Oh, and by the way, X Adventists who despise Ellen White are especially welcome and tolerated with virtually no moderation. Just thought you'd like to know....

[tall73]

miz3 would! All opinions are welcome, yes? Everyone is welcome, right?

So, brother, I think your logic is flawed and your opinion is wrong, that just my opinion offered in a spirit of helping another out.

As we continually see this kind spirit at work around here and allowed to continue for, oh, say ELEVEN posts in a row or so, I'm sure you will agree: No problem! Right?

Book, chapter and verse,,, please.

Oh, and by the way, X Adventists who despise Ellen White are especially welcome and tolerated with virtually no moderation. Just thought you'd like to know....

Thanks, I appreciate the support. I see you offer no contrary evidence to the information posted.

[doug yowell]

A number of sources reported on a competition in bids to build a medical center in the Montgomery County area of Maryland. Both Catholic and Adventist hospitals put in bids.

Planned Parenthood and others supported the Adventist bid over the Catholic bid as Adventist hospitals would offer elective abortions and sterilizations, as opposed to the Catholic hospital.

Are the sources credible that alleged that PP supported the SDA over the RC? Do we have documentation of that fact or is the conclusion merely hearsay? Even if the report itself is true it doesn't prove that SDA hospitals are doing abortions but it does look undeniably suspicious. Finding out conclusively one way or the other would go a long way towards determining the next step.

[ClubV12]

Of course not!! I only point out, continually, the error of other peoples flawed opinions and denigrate them and the Adventist.org bunch with back handed compliments with every post.

As I stand on the hill so all can I see my deep piety and clean heart making it so difficult for anyone to see the real truth of the matter,,,,, "brother".

[miz3]

Do SDA at Washington Adventist Hospital still do abortions in this 2012 year?

[ClubV12]

Why do you ask miz3, running low on ammunition for your attacks on the Church?

[tall73]

Are the sources credible that alleged that PP supported the SDA over the RC? Do we have documentation of that fact or is the conclusion merely hearsay?

Here is the website of the Montgomery County Complete Care Coalition

http://completecarecoalition.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/m4c_backs_adventist/

The link is to an article describing their stance.

It also links to a letter sent by the following members of the coalition:

Planned Parenthood of Metropolitan Washington

NARAL Pro-Choice Maryland

Montgomery County NOW

Maryland NOW

Maryland Coalition Against Sexual Assault

Women’s Law Center of Maryland, Inc.

The MergerWatch Project

National Women’s Law Center

Americans United for Separation of Church and State

Catholics for Choice

Here is the letter linked to, which was sent to the board deciding the issue.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15910657/1%2014%2011MCCCC%20Rec%20to%20CommissionFINAL.pdf

A quote from the letter:

The State Health Plan for Facilities and Services: Acute Care Hospital Services, COMAR

10.24.10, requires the Commission to assess factors including a proposed project’s impact on health care access and the quality of services available, especially for underserved populations. Any evaluation to determine which of the two competing proposals to construct a new hospital will better meet the needs of Montgomery County’s residents must take these factors into account. However, it appears that Chairperson Moon’s recommendation of Holy Cross’ proposal overlooked these factors by ignoring existing health care access gaps in Montgomery County.

It is our understanding that Adventist Hospital currently provides the full range of health care services at its facilities, in accordance with medically-accepted standards of care. In contrast, any facility owned by Holy Cross will limit its patients’ access to services.

[tall73]

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-06...ital-lease-land

An article from the Baltimore Sun.

Quotes:

"We're disappointed," said NARAL Pro-Choice Maryland Executive Director Jodi Finkelstein. "We would have liked to have seen a different outcome."

The article discusses how instances where the mother's life is in danger and abortion might be needed would be handled from the Catholic hospital's standpoint.

It concludes with the following"

In January, the state Health Care Commission approved the project, rejecting a plan put forward by the competing Adventist HealthCare.

The Adventist group had the backing of dozen General Assembly members who believed that a hospital on public land should "provide a full array of healthcare services."

You can read this letter from legislators on the Clarksburg hospital site:

http://www.clarksburghospital.com/news/a...sburg-hospital/

The key quote is at the end:

Fourth, it is important that any future hospital in Montgomery County, particularly if the hospital is built on public land, provides a full array of health care services for all of our constituents. In sum, we strongly support the Adventist HealthCare proposal for developing a hospital in Clarksburg.

[ClubV12]

Eh,,,, more of the same, just the opinions of men without substance. I only recognize book, chapter and verse as having any authority.

[tall73]

Additionally you can read the entire "exceptions" document sent by Clarksburg Community Hospital, Shady Grove Adventist Hospital and Shady Grove Adventist Germantown Emergency Center on the Maryland.gov site, in three parts.

http://mhcc.maryland.gov/certificateofneed/exceptions/montgomery/exceptions_montgomery1.pdf

http://mhcc.maryland.gov/certificateofneed/exceptions/montgomery/exceptions_montgomery2.pdf

http://mhcc.maryland.gov/certificateofneed/exceptions/montgomery/exceptions_montgomery3.pdf

Part three in point 37 quotes from the recommendation decision that letters were received from the following groups:

The Maryland Coalition Against Sexual Assault

The Montgomery County Commission for Women

Planned Parenthood of Metropolitan Washingon

NARAL Pro-Choice Maryland

The MergerWatch Project

Americans United for Separation of Church and State

Montgomery Count NOW

Maryland NOW

The National Women's Law Center

Women's Law Center of Maryland.

They note that the letters from these groups were not propery addressed with evidence that there were enough groups offering full services in the area.

[tall73]

So to summarize, regarding whether there is evidence that pro-choice groups supported the Adventist bid, we have

a. A letter from the groups themselves.

b. A third party newsgroup reporting on it

c. Confirmation from the Adventist sent document which challenges the ruling to allow the Catholic Hospital rather than the Adventist that these groups objected.

And we see that the Adventist proposal wishes this element to be reviewed.

[tall73]

Eh,,,, more of the same, just the opinions of men without substance. I only recognize book, chapter and verse as having any authority.

The assertion is about current practice. It is not a biblical question, but a question of what the Adventist church is doing in regards to abortion in the current time.

[miz3]

It appears that the Abortion Lobby wants Adventists and rejects the Catholic proposal.

Since most of the Abortion Lobby is Planned Parenthood it would seem that their support means that a SDA facility would perform abortions or at least they think so.

The question then is do SDA Leaders say the SDA Facility will perform abortions?

Again does Washington Adventist Hospital still do abortions as of 2012?

[CoAspen]

Does posting comments require a complete lack of credibility....jus' askn!

[ClubV12]

Of course the Adventist Hospitals don't do abortions.

How could you possibly conclude this? Most likely from listening to those who are extremely biased of the Church and make their appearance as if they were truly concerned and of a humble spirit. When the real goal is to denigrate, complain and abuse any member of this forum who disagree's with their pious opinion, "brother".

You must be aware that there are many on this forum that claim to be Adventists, but they are liars. It is self evident as they stock pile their ammunition and hide themselves in their cloak of piety, kind Sirs.

[ClubV12]

CoAspen asks,

"Does posting comments require a complete lack of credibility..."

Indeed, that is the hallmark of several members of this forum. You might inquire as to miz3's opinion on this, I'm sure he will be able to point out book, chapter and verse to help you with this important question.

[M. T. Cross]

Club, ya think you are taking this a bit far? Its in every single post you make....... The mods closed that other thread and you made your point. Ask yourself if you think this is the way your God would want you to act.

[ClubV12]

Oh, not to far at all Emptycross, I have yet to post ELEVEN times in a row and prevent anyone else from even making a comment.

That "other thread"? Oh, you mean the one where no one could say anything because miz3 was so busy posting? Oh yeah,,, THAT one. I remember now, pity that....

[M. T. Cross]

Dude, its just that you are acting in the very manner or worse than what bothered you............ but you know this don't you? Again, is this how you think your God would have you act?

[ClubV12]

Book, chapter and verse please as to how YOU think this forum should be run.

I don't need a reason to consider your thinking "sloppy" or why I think your verse interpretations are some flawed reasoning from that Adventist.org society. And I really don't care what you think one way or the other, kind Sir, brother in the faith.

[tall73]

Since most of the Abortion Lobby is Planned Parenthood it would seem that their support means that a SDA facility would perform abortions or at least they think so.

The question then is do SDA Leaders say the SDA Facility will perform abortions?

A. Planned parenthood did state they thought so in the article I linked to.

B. Legislators who endorsed the Adventist hospital over the Catholic indicated it was in part because they wanted a hospital that would offer a full range of care. And this was hosted on the site for the proposed Adventist medical center.

C. The Adventist response in their "exceptions" document includes discussion of how there is no evidence that there is ample reproductive care options in the area, to make up for the Catholic Hospital not offering them.

This would be an odd argument in their favor if they were not offering them.

So far I have seen no direct statement from an Adventist source in this hospital debate that they offer abortions.

I don't expect to see it either. They seemed content to allow others to make the argument for them and then to reference the argument of the aforementioned others.

[ClubV12]

Of course I have already "SHREDDED" your position with "FACTS", tall73.

[tall73]

Howdy Club, I am a bit slow to catch on that you are on some manner of quest to prove a point.

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