Saved By Faith or By Feeling

[Gibs]

How are we saved by faith? Can you feel it in your soul?

To get a discussion going here as it has come to a stand still, any who care to comment your thoughts.

Salvation is our most important concern of all we could discuss.

May we be Blessed

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

There is a song that is sung a lot, "I can feel it in my soul". I think the feeling comes by faith and knowing even though appointed once to die we have eternal life now, today!

By His Grace, mercy and great love He gave of Himself to save us from the penalty of death because of our sins, + strength to put away our sining. Knowing this is true and trustworthy we have faith knowing it is ours.

A word from EGW for SDA's,

"The cross! the cross! it is set up that we may understand and know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. It tells us of the depth and breadth of infinite love, the greatness of the Father's love. It reveals the astonishing truth that God the Father gave Himself in His Son, that He might have the joy of receiving back the sheep that was lost. {17MR 214.2}

We will cooperate with God in leading back to His fold the lost sheep. Then, my brother, my sister, work on, I beseech you. By living faith lay hold of the power of divinity, and lead the sheep back to the Shepherd who gave His life for it. "They that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever" [Daniel 12:3]. {17MR 214.3}

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Lu 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Ac 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

Well, if you want to be blunt about it. Does the virgin know the difference between being a virgin and the day after her honeymoon?

I would say she probably does, so likewise the christian should know the difference between life without the Holy Spirit and life with the Holy Spirit.

The greatest gift that Jesus can give us is the gift of the Holy Spirit who will lead us into all truth.

Jesus referred to this experience as the ‘new birth’ but this is just the beginning. Someone who is born again is just a babe in Christ. Babes are easily deceived and follow after this one or that one to the peril of their souls.

God wants his people to grow up so that they become mature men and women in Christ who cannot be deceived anymore. A mature christian knows the truth and there is no doubt in his or her mind. Doubt is the real enemy and the opposite of true faith.

[Gibs]

Cheddar,

True and there is many too that are sent a strong delusion and we must not be caught up in that.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

That fact is many have set their faith on presuption then since these believe not the truth.

For sure there must be a death of the old mand and be born again from above, His Spirit now in us and a rebirth to live unto Him instead of unto self. As we of ourselves are nothing against the wiles of the devil and his.

Christ within is our only hope and strength.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

I agree we are saved by Faith not feeling.

[miz3]

We are neither saved by "faith" and/or "feeling".

We are Saved only by God/Jesus Christ and what they have done.

To be saved by "faith"/"feeling" means that humans are saved by their own work. Such a theology of Salvation gives the glory to humans and God gets no glory.

Romans chapter five states that humans are saved by what God and Jesus Christ did. Humans have nothing to do with it. The five wise virgins were saved by the fact the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) knew them. The five foolish virgins were lost because the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) didn't know them.

The Bible teaches that we are saved only by God/Jesus Christ.

[Gibs]

Miz3, True for sure but if one didn't ever get up any faith that God could save one and provided a way for forgiveness it just wouldn't happen. I think we maybe should read the "faith" chapter,

Heb 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Heb 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Heb 11:32 ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Faith is something that comes as a gift to humans AFTER they are saved.

Faith never ever comes before humans are saved.

[phkrause]

We are neither saved by "faith" and/or "feeling".

We are Saved only by God/Jesus Christ and what they have done.

To be saved by "faith"/"feeling" means that humans are saved by their own work. Such a theology of Salvation gives the glory to humans and God gets no glory.

Romans chapter five states that humans are saved by what God and Jesus Christ did. Humans have nothing to do with it. The five wise virgins were saved by the fact the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) knew them. The five foolish virgins were lost because the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) didn't know them.

The Bible teaches that we are saved only by God/Jesus Christ.

I don't think that's what gibs is saying or anyone else. I agree we are saved by what Jesus did for us. But Jesus says we need to accept that, and how do we accept that? By Faith. So that tells me that we have to do something! And that's we have to accept! If you consider that works, than so be it. But for me that's not works at all.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

We are neither saved by "faith" and/or "feeling".

We are Saved only by God/Jesus Christ and what they have done.

To be saved by "faith"/"feeling" means that humans are saved by their own work. Such a theology of Salvation gives the glory to humans and God gets no glory.

Romans chapter five states that humans are saved by what God and Jesus Christ did. Humans have nothing to do with it. The five wise virgins were saved by the fact the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) knew them. The five foolish virgins were lost because the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) didn't know them.

The Bible teaches that we are saved only by God/Jesus Christ.

I don't think that's what gibs is saying or anyone else. I agree we are saved by what Jesus did for us. But Jesus says we need to accept that, and how do we accept that? By Faith. So that tells me that we have to do something! And that's we have to accept! If you consider that works, than so be it. But for me that's not works at all.

The Bible says different.

"So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."

Galatians 5:16-26.

Notice that "faith" is one of the fruits of the Spirit. Fruits of the Spirit only come after one is actually saved. Never ever before or simultaneously with Salvation. Faith is a Gift from God only to those who are saved and only to those who have the Holy Spirit ruling in their lives.

Thus, faith is the "fruit" of being saved and not something you have/do to get saved.

This is far different from what you are saying. You are saying that you are not saved until you "believe"/have faith/exercise faith/etc. in what God/Jesus Christ did. As I have pointed out above and previously in Romans chapter five that humans are saved only because of what God/Jesus Christ has done/did on the Cross. Nothing else. No strings of any kind attached.

Notice that Abraham has 'faith' only after Abraham was saved. When was Abraham saved? Before Abraham left Ur. God called Abraham because Abraham was already God's saved agent. Was Abraham perfect? No. But then "perfection" has never ever been a perquisite to Salvation. "Perfection" has always been a "fruit" that comes after Salvation (Justification).

[Gibs]

Miz3, You have to had faith that His Word is true, that He is who He says He is and that He has made a way for you to be saved to begin with. Faith comes from knowing it is the truth, if you didn't believe the story you wouldn't have faith and believe.

Athough you have a different view than I and many on salvation I still must hold without faith it is impossible to please Him.

And I really think you do have faith,

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Miz3, You have to had faith that His Word is true, that He is who He says He is and that He has made a way for you to be saved to begin with. Faith comes from knowing it is the truth, if you didn't believe the story you wouldn't have faith and believe.

Athough you have a different view than I and many on salvation I still must hold without faith it is impossible to please Him.

And I really think you do have faith,

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Romans chapter five says that God/Jesus Christ saved us even before we "knew it". Romans says something about "while we were yet sinners" which means while we still were in darkness and did not know the Light (Truth) or even had even the slightest inkling about it God/Jesus Christ saved us. After God/Jesus Christ saved us, They sent the Light and Commanded us to believe, have faith, and trust the Light that was sent.

As I said the Faith we have came after that. Not ever before.

God/Jesus Christ saved us, after that God it made it known to us that He saved us and then and only then did God command us to "believe, have Faith, trust, etc." in Him and Jesus Christ Whom He sent.

Faith comes after the FACT never ever before the FACT.

[Gibs]

Miz3,

For me I don't see Rom 5: telling me that. I find repentance comes before salvation.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Miz3,

For me I don't see Rom 5: telling me that. I find repentance comes before salvation.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Faith is something that comes as a gift to humans AFTER they are saved.

Faith never ever comes before humans are saved.

Where does the Bible say this, and what do you mean, in this post, when you say "saved?"

[Overaged]

How are we saved by faith? Can you feel it in your soul?

To get a discussion going here as it has come to a stand still, any who care to comment your thoughts.

Salvation is our most important concern of all we could discuss.

May we be Blessed

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

God bids you with one hand, faith, take hold of His mighty arm, and with the other hand, love, reach perishing souls. (2T 169)

[Overaged]

How are we saved by faith? Can you feel it in your soul?

Gibs; it is important to understand that we actually are not "saved by faith." The Bible does not use this exact expression, rather it says "saved by faith, through grace." This is a very important difference.

Faith is not our Savior, Jesus is, and we are saved only by Him. (John 1:29)

[Gibs]

Of course, Overaged and I think I intimated that earlier, that because of His Grace can we be saved through faith. Faith is the answer to us knowing were in and surety of salvation comes, through Jesus Christ and Him only. Knowing it is the Truth then we have trust and faith of the matter.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

True Faith blooms from knowing it is the truth. Many have a faith based on presumption and it is worthless. We have a lot of that today in Christianity.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

First the Spirit of the Father Jesus says draw him,

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is what brings us to His throne of grace in repentance. Actually all are drawn at some time in their lives until His Spirit is grieved away.

I've had two different ladies come to me and asked if they had grieved away the Holy Spirit. And immediatley I told them no. Both then asked, How do you know that?

I then told them, His Spirit has caused you to ask of me if you have or you wouldn't be worried and asking. One was a stranger and she says, oh thanks and turned and ran to her car elated. The other is a Sabbath keeper now and she has converted her Mother who had convinced her she had grieved away the Holy Spirit and her and her Mother are back together again and true Christians. Another friend of mine was with us many times when we talked and he marveled how this lady turned her life around and her Mothers too.

All my come who have not driven Him away, but He does strive long there is no doubt with each.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Miz3,

For me I don't see Rom 5: telling me that. I find repentance comes before salvation.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That is not talking about Justification.

[miz3]

Miz3,

For me I don't see Rom 5: telling me that. I find repentance comes before salvation.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

"Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men."

Romans 5:18.

This clearly says that because of the Jesus Christ and the Cross that all humans are "Justified". Justified means they are saved. No human did a thing. God/Jesus Christ did it all.

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly."

Romans 5:6.

You see the text plainly says that Jesus Christ died not for the righteous but rather Jesus Christ died for the ungodly. That means they were not Justified yet until after Jesus Christ died and paid the penalty.

It is quite common and quite prevalent for humans to get the Bible texts showing Sanctification mixed up with texts that show Justification.

This is because humans are so naturally "human-centric" in their inherent beliefs. This human centrist attitude with which we humans are born with causes us to believe that we humans must "do something" in order to be saved.

The actual Fact is that "ungodly humans" as the text says we were/are can never ever "choose, have faith, repent, etc. etc. because we just can't. The Bible says so.

"Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God."

Romans 8:5-8.

Notice the underlined part, where it says that the "ungodly human" cited in Romans chapter five verse six says that such humans cannot "do so".

They cannot "choose", cannot "repent", cannot have "faith", cannot "etc. etc. etc." anything spiritual.

Such things happen only when the Holy Spirit comes in and rules the human causing them to "choose God", "repent of sins", "have faith in God/Jesus Christ and what they did on the Cross", etc. etc. etc. In other words these things are the "fruits of the Spirit" which takes place during the Sanctification of the human by God. These things all come after Justification never ever before Justification.

[Gibs]

You still must have His merits applied to your case. Many will not and will die the second death even thought He died for them too.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

I don't believe I said that "all who were Justified" would be saved. In fact not all humans will be saved.

Hebrews chapter two verse three tells that humans will "reject this great Salvation".

[Overaged]

Of course, Overaged and I think I intimated that earlier, that because of His Grace can we be saved through faith. Faith is the answer to us knowing were in and surety of salvation comes, through Jesus Christ and Him only. Knowing it is the Truth then we have trust and faith of the matter.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

True Faith blooms from knowing it is the truth. Many have a faith based on presumption and it is worthless. We have a lot of that today in Christianity.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

But Hebrews 11:6 does not say we are "saved by faith." It says that when we exercise faith we please God. But it actually does not say that faith saves us. Neither faith nor works can be our Savior. Only Jesus is our Savior. (John 1:29)

[Naomi]

But Hebrews 11:6 does not say we are "saved by faith." It says that when we exercise faith we please God. But it actually does not say that faith saves us. Neither faith nor works can be our Savior. Only Jesus is our Savior. (John 1:29)

This is the key to the entire issue of salvation, and I believe bears repeating. Thank you OA