Biblical Evidence for the Investigative Judgment

[John317]

By Bradley Williams

A Bible Reading On the Investigative

Judgment

Source:

http://www.investigativejudgmentgospel.org/Page22.html

Who is the instigator of persecution and most of our troubles? What is his purpose?

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast

some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ... be thou faithful unto death, and I will give

thee a crown of life.

The Devil has put us on trial. Who does he draw into this litigation? Who does he

recognize as the judge?

Rev 12:9-10 ... The ... serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan ... the accuser of our

brethren, who accused them before our God day and night (NKJ)

Does this mean that Jesus participates in this testing of believers?

Rev 2:23 ". . . And all the churches shall know that I am [Jesus Christ] He who searches [the

Greek word means "investigates"] the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of

you according to your works. (NKJ)

Note: The word usually translated “searches” in Revelation 2:23 is the Greed word

ereunao. Gerhard Delling, the contributor to the unquestionably authoritative Theological

Dictionary of the New Testament for the entry on Ereunao and Exereunao, states, “In the

NT [ereunao] has the common sense of ‘thorough investigation’. ”

What was God's judgment of Job? Who brings Job up for consideration?

Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no

one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

(NIV)

Will Jesus similarly bring us up for consideration?

A. Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross .... 22 In the body of

his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his

sight.

B. Romans 14:10 ... we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (Cf. Rev 20:12)

Is God's judgment of us the same as His assessment of Job?

A. Eph 1:3-4 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ... he chose us in him

before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. (NIV)

B. 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we

might be made the righteousness of God in him. (Cf. Rom 8:4;1 John 2:5; 3:3, 9)

What happened to the charges of the law that condemned us?

Col 2:14 He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and

destroyed it by nailing it to Christ's cross. NLT

Note: There are two that bring charges against us: First God’s law judges us (Rom 2:12),

and condemns us to death (2 Corinthians 3:7a, 9a). The second condemnation comes

from the Devil (Rev 12:10). Col 2:14 addresses itself to the first condemnation, that of the

law of God. Through faith, Christ’s death cancels the charges leveled by God’s law

against each of us.

How do we become blameless and upright?

Heb 10:14-16 ... By one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made

holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this... he says: "This is the covenant I will make

with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write

them on their minds." (NIV)

Does Satan accept God's judgment?

Job 1:9-12 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge

around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his

hands ... But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse

you to your face."

Note: Satan not only questions Job's integrity; more importantly, he blasphemously

brings into doubt the judgment of God. In other words, he suggests that God's judgment

is faulty. He implies that God is a poor judge of character. This insinuates that God is not

qualified to pass judgment on anyone—Not even Satan!

Does God agree to Lucifer's challenge to investigate Job's integrity? Who carries out

the investigation?

Job 1:12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but

on the man himself do not lay a finger." (NIV)

What will Jesus do with the information gained in the investigation of believers?

A. Rev 2:23 ". . . And all the churches shall know that I am [Jesus Christ] He who searches

[investigates] the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your

works. (NKJ)

B. Rom 2:6-7, 16 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those

who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal

life.... This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus

Christ, as my gospel declares. (NIV)

Does our salvation concern itself with the question of our being qualified for, or worthy

of eternal life?

A. . . . . They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. Rev 3:4 (NIV).

B. And we pray ... that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every

way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God. Col 1:10 (See

also: Eph 4:1; Phil 1:27; 1Thes 2:12; 2Thes 1:1,1 NIV).

What is the Devil's motive for seeking a conviction against us for unworthiness?

Rom 2:3 And do you suppose this, 0 man, when you pass judgment upon those who

practice such things and do the same {yourself,} that you will escape the judgment of

God? (NAS)

What is God proving in the testing of believers?

A. Deut 13:3 ... The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all

your heart and with all your soul. (NIV)

B. Ps 7:8 The LORD shall judge ... according to my integrity within me. 9 ... for the righteous

God tests the hearts and minds. (NKJ)

C. 1 Pet 1:6 ...you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith

... though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of

Jesus Christ, (NKJ)

D. Deut 8:2 Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty

years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or

not you would keep his commands. (NIV)

Continued

[John317]

Continued

What is the evidence that God's judgment of His faithful is right and Satan is wrong?

A. And we pray . . . that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in

every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God. Col 1:10

B. II Th 1:3-7 ... Your faith is growing more and more, and the love every one of you has for

each other is increasing. . . we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the

persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God's judgment is right,

and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are

suffering. (NIV)

What other verse indicates that God is looking for a progressing experience?

1 Tim 4:15-16 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress

may be evident to all. Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in

doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. (NKJ)

Does God openly consider cases of His saints, as He did with Job.

A. Dan 7:9 "I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated

.... 10 The court was seated, And the books were opened. NKJV

B. Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross 22 to present you holy

and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 if ye continue in the faith ...and be

not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

What indication do we have that Satan will treat the saints to an investigation of their

integrity in the last days?

Dan 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints

of the Most High .... 26'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his

dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. 27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And

the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the

saints of the Most High. NKJV

Is there any further indication that the saints living at the time of the Second Coming

and the first resurrection, will be investigated through tribulations like Job?

A. Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for

the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since

there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be

delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that

sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life ...

B. Joel 2:1 ... Sound an alarm ... for the day of the LORD cometh ... 2 A day of darkness and

of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness ...

C. Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the

day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

D. Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of

the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

E. Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against

them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the

most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

What is the real issue in Satan's war against the saints?

Rev 13:6 ... [satan's medium] opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme

his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Note: "The word 'blasphemy' is practically confined to speech defamatory of the Divine

Majesty” thus to “speak contemptuously of God.” (Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical

Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.). Blasphemy is a "vilification" of God

(Strong's Greek-Hebrew Dictionary). Satan's blasphemy against God is a defiling

defamatory attack on the heavenly sanctuary. He vilifies God's character (His name),

and suggest doubts about the integrity of God's plan of salvation (His tabernacle) and

those He judges to be suitable to "dwell in heaven."

What is necessary for God's heavenly sanctuary?

Heb 9:23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be

cleansed with these [sacrifices], but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices

than these. NASD

When would God undertake the cleansing of His heavenly sanctuary ?

Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the

sanctuary be cleansed.

Note: The cleansing of Satan's "blasphemy against God ... his name ... his tabernacle ...

and them that dwell in heaven" through his insinuation that God has a faulty judgment of

character in describing those He chooses to dwell in heaven as “blameless”, began in

1844 in fulfillment of this time prophecy. The process of cleansing is a process of judgment

that is typified in the day of atonement rituals described in Leviticus 16. As demonstrated

in the following diagram the time prophecy found in Daniel 8:14 is reminiscent of five

other biblical time prophecies (Gen 6; Gen 15:13,14; Jer 25:11,12; Dan 9:24-27; Rev

20:2,7-15) that announce the beginning of a time of divine judgment.

What other evidence do we have that there would be a pre-advent judgment?

A. Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the

everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and

kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to

him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth,

and the sea, and the fountains of waters .... 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud,

and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden

crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

B. Rev 13:7 ... it was given unto him [human governments under Lucifer’s power] to make

war with the saints, and to overcome them ... 14 And [he] deceiveth them that dwell on

the earth ... [into making] an image to the beast .... 16 And ... to receive a mark ... 17 And

that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark ...

C. Rev 2:23 ". . . And all the churches shall know that I am [Jesus Christ] He who searches

[this word means "investigates"] the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you

according to your works. (NKJ)

Note: God’s investigative judgment of His people begins before the Second Coming.

And just as it was with Job the pre-advent judgment is actually a trail of God’s own

judgment of character. Through the great afflictions of His faithful people sometime after

1844, and just before the Second Coming, it is proven that God’s judgment is right. Even in

times of greatest extremity, when the threat level is at its highest, God’s children maintain

true integrity of faith. “All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you

will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 2

Thessalonians 1:5 NIV” The last greatest time of testing and trouble is the investigative

judgment of those who live to see the Second Advent. At this time persecuted saints with

the integrity of Job vindicate God's "name, his tabernacle, and them that dwell in

heaven."

What encouragement do we have as we face the investigative judgment of the living?

1 Cor 10:13 .... God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear ....

What is Jesus' ultimate goal concerning Lucifer?

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself

likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the

power of death, that is, the devil.

1. Jesus' death provides for our justification,

2. Justification gives God the legal right to give us the time and opportunity (a time of

probation before the final judgment) to prove that we are His loving and loyal children,

3. Overcoming challenges to our loyalty to Christ proves our integrity and vindicates the

rightness (righteousness) of God's judgment,

4. Proof of the rightness of God’s judgment settles the question of whether God is just in

destroying the Devil for his sins, while forgiving us for our sins and giving us unending life.

At the conclusion of the investigative judgment of the living saints, what will God point

out to Satan?

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God

and their faith in Jesus. NAS

Job 2:3 .... He [/she] still maintains his[/her] integrity, though you incited ...[their] ruin ..."

(NIV)

Note: Revelation 14:12 indicates that the saints overcome their last trial.

What happy news will Jesus then give to the faithful?

Rev 22:12 ... Behold, I come quickly ...

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be

my son.

Matt 25:34 ... Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom...

[cheddar]

John, there’s a simple way to find out the general time span for the antitypical Day of Atonement (aka investigative judgment, aka pre-advent judgment).

The day of atonement happened one day out of the year and to make it simple we’ll use the Jewish calendar of 360 days per year.

The antitypical day of atonement happens at the end of earth’s history so if we use the generic age for the earth at 6000 years and divide it by 360 we get 16.6 years.

Wow, that’s a lot less than the 150 plus years that adventists say that Jesus has been in the most holy place. It’s just an approximation so nothing set in stone and also antitypes often don’t meet every detail of their type.

I personally agree with the investigative judgment (fall feasts, Dan. 7, 1st angel’s message), I just disagree with the timing. Did Jesus really go into the most holy place in 1844? I think not.

When we look at the feast of trumpets, a trumpet was sounded each day to warn the Israelites that the great day of judgment was coming and they needed to get ready.

Where was the warning prior to 1844? Adventists have taken the trumpets of Rev. and thrown them way in the past so the 7th trumpet lines up with 1844. This is shoddy biblical scholarship. The trumpets of Rev. have not happened yet (trumpets occur during lifespan of 144K) so the great day of judgment has not happened yet either.

[Gerr]

So what happened at the end of the 2300 days prophecy? Anything?

[Nic Samojluk]

Gerry Cabalo asked:

“So what happened at the end of the 2300 days prophecy? Anything?”

I will tell you what happened according to the computation of John Newton, a close relative of Isaac Newton who lived and died several centuries ago. Instead of using the convoluted interpretation we Adventists use for the prophecy found in Daniel 8:14, he chose a simpler way of explaining Scripture.

The immediate context of the 2300 prophecy is a battle between Alexander the Great and Medo-Persia. This took place in 334 BC. If you add the 2300 prophetical years and make and adjustment for the lack of a zero year between BC and AD, you reach 1967.

Did anything significant take place in 1967 for Israel, the people Daniel was concerned about? The answer is, Yes. The Six Days War between Israel and the Arabs, which resulted in the incredible victory of Israel over its enemies.

We Adventists are so self centered that we believe that such a major prophetic period must have been written with Adventists in mind. Was Prophet Daniel thinking about us Adventists? Wasn’t he rather concerned about his own people?

[cheddar]

So what happened at the end of the 2300 days prophecy? Anything?

The end of the 2300 days marks the cleansing of the sanctuary. A finished and completed cleansing of the sanctuary. If Jesus went into the most holy in 1844 the cleansing was just beginning not completed which would be accurate with the verse. To be accurate with the verse Jesus would have to go in and make the atonement and come out at the very end.

Protestants have the secret rapture and adventists have the secret judgment. The judgment is supposedly taking place an no one even knows about it. On the ancient day of atonement every single Israelite knew the judgment was coming, there was nothing done in secret. The antitype affects not only the people of God but the whole world.

[Dr. Rich]

So what happened at the end of the 2300 days prophecy? Anything?

Here is my take-and probably just as good as anyone's:

Dan. 2's stone cut out of a rock was all about a NEW Kingdom of Heaven that would be set up (started if you will, by establishing a host or citizens for this new KOH), at the time of the ten toes--and we know that means at or during the end time events of this world's history. After all, Jesus made it clear that Israel was 'toast' as we see in Matthew 21:43 and the dead fig tree.

Therefore there was no KOH from the time Jesus was here until the time of the ten toes--and that is exactly what the 2300 day/year prophecy is all about--the setting up of this KOH as verified by Matthew 25:1-13 because all of the points of the ten virgins shows that ONLY the Adventists fit this like a glove, as even James and Ellen believed that Adventists were the Ten Virgins. As prophesied, both in Matt. 25:1-13 and Rev. 2 and 3, especially with Sardis, Adventists (as the KOH now) have spiritually fallen asleep not even knowing who they are. Why? Because of the teachings of the one found in Rev. 2:18-26, causing those who would be bond servants to mistakenly believe that Jesus could come at any time and that the event in 1844 was the start of some type of an Investigative Judgment-which clearly goes against what Rev. 11: 1 and 2 clearly shows.

[Samie]

So what happened at the end of the 2300 days prophecy? Anything?

The question is better phrased "What WILL HAPPEN at the end of the 2300 days prophecy?" This is because the vision is directly related with the taking away of the 'daily' and is yet to occur in the near future shortly before the 2nd Coming.

[Dr. Rich]

Samie, if Dan. 8:14 can't be figured out to understand exactly when the temple in heaven starts functioning again, then why would Daniel have given us this for? Here is the thing: The 'daily' could not happen IF there was no one for the daily to do anything for--right? Once the final KOH was set up (got it's start with people in it), then the daily could once against start--and it would end when all is over at the 5th bowl, or the end of the 37th month (new moon) after the start of the time of trouble. This is when the censor is cast down upon the earth--as all of the 'daily' work will be finished.

[Nic Samojluk]

It seems to me that we Adventists are stuck with an impossible framework for understanding the message we find in the 8th chapter of Daniel.

Daniel knew nothing of the Sanctuary in heaven. His concern was the earthly sanctuary in Jerusalem and the future of his own Jewish race. The setting is not heaven but rather the earth where the pollution was taking place. If the pollution was taking place on earth, the cleaning must take place there as well.

We should not ignore the context found in Daniel 8. The context is the battle between Alexander the Great and the military forces of Medo-Persia. History tells us that this took place in 334 BC. All we need to do is to add 2300 years, allow for the lack of a zero year between BC and AD and we get the following date 1967—the date of the great victory of Israel over their enemies in the Six Days War.

What polluted the sanctuary was the presence of Israel’s enemies in the Holy Land—not the sins of the Saints in heaven. Biblical history shows the evidence that the presence of Israel’s enemies is what had polluted that Holly Temple every time. What needed cleaning was in the Holy Land—not in heaven!

The prophecy was for the time of the end, and it has to do with Daniel’s Jewish race. This simple interpretation was the work of John Newton—the brother or nephew of Isaac Newton, and he predicted this fulfillment several centuries ago.

This interpretation requires no gimmicks to solve the dilemma; it is simple and straightforward. Ellen White did say that there is much to be discovered in the Bible and Daniel was told the knowledge of this book would increase. It is time to abandon the old convoluted interpretation which makes no logical sense.

[Gibs]

Nic,

I think we can prove that 1844 is correct because of the fact the 70 weeks determined, (taken off) the 2300 yrs that if we didnt start it at exactly the right yr. the prophecy of the Messiah being cut off in the middle of that 70'th week of yrs would not have happened. Well it did, precisely.

The only decree that mattered was the one by Darius of 457 BC and it being a Jubilee yr. fits too as that was a new beginning as all Jubilee yrs. are. Also yr. for a day prophecies are on the only calendar that uses a yr. for a day is the Jubilee calendar. The decree made it a new beginning and plus it was a Jubilee yr. and this calendar was instituted by God starting yr. one with Adam, a new beginning and the first Jubilee yr. on earth. According to Enoch the Jubilee calendar had run from all eternity past and will all eternity future. It is one of God's great time clocks.

Yes it is amazing the SDA's got it right not realizing it is the Jubilee calendar the prophecy was given on and the decree would needs be a Jubilee yr. and it was.

But people do get something wrong about it, that is, 1844 was the beginning time of the prophecy and then to the consumation. 1844 to the consumation is the time of the end of the prophecy. The time is about over, and again the Jubilee calendar proves how close. Most reject that study but to their own detriment of understanding. No it don't give us the day and hour but within a yr. one way or the other. Reason is because of Accession counting before the flood. I think it can be resolved and for me I have but care not to get into it as most do not understand the math of it well.

Example, most if you tell them count down from and with 457 through yr. 1, they will come up with 456 but if you give them 1 through 457 they will say that amounts to 457, well it's the same whether you count up or down!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Samie, if Dan. 8:14 can't be figured out to understand exactly when the temple in heaven starts functioning again, then why would Daniel have given us this for? Here is the thing: The 'daily' could not happen IF there was no one for the daily to do anything for--right? Once the final KOH was set up (got it's start with people in it), then the daily could once against start--and it would end when all is over at the 5th bowl, or the end of the 37th month (new moon) after the start of the time of trouble. This is when the censor is cast down upon the earth--as all of the 'daily' work will be finished.

[Dr. Rich]

Sorry Nick, but I see many flaws in your theory. First is an assumption that Daniel did not know anything about the heavenly sanctuary. But this really is not that important because Daniel had been studying what Jeremiah has been written and knew that timing was an important issue. Daniel admitted that he did not understand the prophecies for end time (2300 day/year is one of them) and God told him that it was sealed up and it was not for him to know. Only those living in the last generation who are wise or have special insight (the 144k) would be able to fully understand.

Second problem is your context understanding. No, it is not what you believe, as it is dealing with the future, not the past. Remember that Daniel 7's issue was also about the future Kingdom of Heaven--that same stone cut from the rock without hands which clearly was/is not Israel, as verified by Matthew 21:43.

And third, it is the sins of those in Israel, not the sin of other nations or kingdoms. This is why God gave Irael a second chance to become righteous (Dan. 9:24) and they failed again to do as God commanded them to do. No wonder Revelation has Israel has Babylon falling twice ("Fallen, fallen is Babylon..." After all, read Daniel's prayer confirming the sins of Israel!

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Samie, if Dan. 8:14 can't be figured out to understand exactly when the temple in heaven starts functioning again, then why would Daniel have given us this for? Here is the thing: The 'daily' could not happen IF there was no one for the daily to do anything for--right? Once the final KOH was set up (got it's start with people in it), then the daily could once against start--and it would end when all is over at the 5th bowl, or the end of the 37th month (new moon) after the start of the time of trouble. This is when the censor is cast down upon the earth--as all of the 'daily' work will be finished.

Dan 8:14 has nothing to do with the temple in heaven.

Quote:

Daniel 8:13-14 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The vision concerns the 'daily', the transgression of desolation, and the treading underfoot of the sanctuary which obviously cannot occur in heaven. The taking away of the 'daily' will be followed by the setting up of the abomination of desolation (see Dan 11:31; 12:11) which is the image of the beast of Rev 13. The Bible is very clear on this.

I don't know who is more confused, you or Mr. Rich. You're both wrong. Is not God's law being tread under foot by almost all of humanity? Well, it is in heaven also.

[Samie]

I think we can prove that 1844 is correct because of the fact the 70 weeks determined, (taken off) the 2300 yrs that if we didnt start it at exactly the right yr. the prophecy of the Messiah being cut off in the middle of that 70'th week of yrs would not have happened. Well it did, precisely.

[Dr. Rich]

Thanks Richard for your input. The truth was hidden from any clear understanding from the time Paul caused confusion and division by the way of his words (the prophecy about the wheat and weeds) all the time (dark ages) up until Miller came up with the time of 1843-44 by counting the number of years from the date ordering the city to be rebuilt until then. What many have failed to 'see' is the word 'host', meaning that the Kingdom of Heaven had NO host (people) in it for any daily in heaven to funtion (for anyone). That is until 1844 when the last Kingdom of Heaven or Dan. 2's Stone cut from the rock without hands, was set up. At that time the daily again begun to function for those (host) of the last KOH. This will end when the censor is cast down at the 5th Bowl as found in Revelation.

[Samie]

...

I don't know who is more confused, you or Mr. Rich. You're both wrong. Is not God's law being tread under foot by almost all of humanity? Well, it is in heaven also.

[Guest]

You think the treading mentioned could really happen up in heaven?

Yes. In the same way that the law in heaven is being trod under foot. What makes you think that the one could, but the other one couldn't?

You cannot tread on the law, without treading on the law giver, and in turn the whole host of heaven. But it's figurative. You cannot literally tread on either one.

[John317]

Anyone want to discuss the Bible evidence that's been posted at the beginning of the thread?

[John317]

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

You think the treading mentioned could really happen up in heaven?

Yes. In the same way that the law in heaven is being trod under foot. What makes you think that the one could, but the other one couldn't?

...

What made you conclude that the sanctuary and the host = the law of God? You have any biblical basis for your contention?

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: John317

......................

The Devil has put us on trial. Who does he draw into this litigation? Who does he

recognize as the judge?

Rev 12:9-10 ... The ... serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan ... the accuser of our

brethren, who accused them before our God day and night (NKJ)

...........................

SD:

This is satan put on trial by God; not us put on trial by the devil.

Huh? Arn't you missing something here? The 'accused' is NEVER the person or entity put on trial. It is always those who are accused. Each person will be judged as found in Rev. 11: 1 and 2. Thus, proving for all time that there is no such thing as any investigative judgment.

[Guest]

What made you conclude that the sanctuary and the host = the law of God? You have any biblical basis for your contention?

I'm not concluding that. I'm saying that in the same way that the law is trodden under foot, which is figuratively, so can the sanctuary be trodden on the same way.

[Lysimachus]

Cheddar

Nic Samojluk

Dr. Rich

Samie

Seventh Day

Etc.

=

All opposed to the Sanctuary Doctrine. Yet all disagree with one another and are in disunity with one another as to why they reject the Sanctuary 1844 Doctrine/Investigative Judgment. This is what we get in an Adventist forum. Lovely isn’t it.

To these individuals, the Spirit of Prophecy means absolutely zip, nada, zilch.

So far, all of them have failed to address the clear Biblical exegesis and arguments presented in the topic of this forum given by John317.

[Dr. Rich]

Try the words of Jesus Marcos, they trump everything else. This proves the IJ is wrong: www.blogtalkradio.com/sot for today's sabbath school class on this issue.