A quick question about sabbath restrictions

[gluck3d]

Sorry, couldn't create the topic in any other (probably more appropriate) forum, probably I don't have the rights. Please move the topic if needed.

The actual question is - what is the view of adventism on the different kinds of jobs on Saturday?

As I understand, the general rule is to not to work if possible, but in the same time some jobs like doctor, firefighter etc are possible?

What about the situation when in general the Saturday is not a working job but sometimes some activity is required to prevent or reduce the business damage?

As an example - my role of IT manager of a financial institution. In general I don't work on Saturdays. But sometimes someone can call me and ask for my tech experience, I've to login to the office remotely and do something. In case If I don't do it - the company may take big losses. This happens several times a year.

Is it defined as a wrong behavior by Adventists?

P.S. I'm not an SDA, but have some relatives in the Church.

[Stan]

My experience has been this with IT and others in a similar situation,

They end up praying for no down time when they are on call that weekend.

IF it goes down, they do the same as you do, fix it remotely and get on with life.

They do not schedule themselves for routine activities.

It is the same with this forum, if it goes down on Sabbath I try to fix it. BUT avoid doing day-to-day maintenance on Sabbath.

Not all will agree with me.

[Naomi]

Having been in that situation for years I must agree with you Sstan.

[Naomi]

Welcome gluck3d, Your question was good and I must agree with Stan's answer.

[CoAspen]

[Dr. Rich]

Yes, Stan's answer was a good one. Common law comes from God's law and one of the maxims of law for common law is that IF it is necessary then it is always lawful.

[Dottie]

Something about an ox in a ditch?

[gluck3d]

Thanks a lot

[Stan]

I remember one story of EGW, she had shipped a trunk of stuff from, I think it was California via the train, and on the instructions she asked that it not be delivered on Sabbath. It arrived in Battle Creek, and the folks tried to deliver it to her home on Sabbath, the men that were gathered in her house Sabbath Afternoon, began making the noise after telling off the delivery team for not following basic instructions and refusing to help, they the sought after EGW to help her complain to the train folks, and they found her outside helping the delivery folks to carry the trunk inside.

[Naomi]

This is representative of the many reasons I respect Sister White. She, by example, dealt with non-believers with compassion. Untold damage would have been done, in the name of God, if she had approached and embarrassed the workmen as the men were doing.

[Woody]

I remember one story of EGW, she had shipped a trunk of stuff from, I think it was California via the train, and on the instructions she asked that it not be delivered on Sabbath. It arrived in Battle Creek, and the folks tried to deliver it to her home on Sabbath, the men that were gathered in her house Sabbath Afternoon, began making the noise after telling off the delivery team for not following basic instructions and refusing to help, they the sought after EGW to help her complain to the train folks, and they found her outside helping the delivery folks to carry the trunk inside.

Very Cool Stan. Do you have a referenece for that?

[phkrause]

I remember one story of EGW, she had shipped a trunk of stuff from, I think it was California via the train, and on the instructions she asked that it not be delivered on Sabbath. It arrived in Battle Creek, and the folks tried to deliver it to her home on Sabbath, the men that were gathered in her house Sabbath Afternoon, began making the noise after telling off the delivery team for not following basic instructions and refusing to help, they the sought after EGW to help her complain to the train folks, and they found her outside helping the delivery folks to carry the trunk inside.

Excellent Stan. I remember back a few years, when I first moved up to Lancaster, MA. There was a close friend of my brother's that wanted to move to the San Francisco area and he was leaving on a sunday morning, his car broke down, I believe the driveshaft broke, so after church that day I fixed it for him so that he could leave early the next morning. Sometimes we get to legalistic. For me the Sabbath is to help those around you, granted if it can be done prior to the Sabbath, great, but if not, do as you believe Jesus would've done.

[Woody]

Personally - I don't feel I am legalistic pk. But I am selfish about my Sabbath. I love to devote it to just experiencing Him. Sure I could do it on other days. But I love devoting the entire day to just feeling His presence in my life.

I still feel ill at ease when my Sabbath is disrupted by having to fix someone's car or pull the ox out of the ditch so to speak. But I am working on me in that department. As I know that is what Jesus would do.

[phkrause]

Personally - I don't feel I am legalistic pk. But I am selfish about my Sabbath. I love to devote it to just experiencing Him. Sure I could do it on other days. But I love devoting the entire day to just feeling His presence in my life.

I still feel ill at ease when my Sabbath is disrupted by having to fix someone's car or pull the ox out of the ditch so to speak. But I am working on me in that department. As I know that is what Jesus would do.

And you know what Woody, that's OK too! Nothing wrong with that attitute(sp). We are all different in some of the small details or the black and white details of the Sabbath.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Personally - I don't feel I am legalistic pk. But I am selfish about my Sabbath. I love to devote it to just experiencing Him. Sure I could do it on other days. But I love devoting the entire day to just feeling His presence in my life.

I still feel ill at ease when my Sabbath is disrupted by having to fix someone's car or pull the ox out of the ditch so to speak. But I am working on me in that department. As I know that is what Jesus would do.

And you know what Woody, that's OK too! Nothing wrong with that attitute(sp). We are all different in some of the small details or the black and white details of the Sabbath.

[Neil D]

Personally - I don't feel I am legalistic pk. But I am selfish about my Sabbath. I love to devote it to just experiencing Him. Sure I could do it on other days. But I love devoting the entire day to just feeling His presence in my life.

I still feel ill at ease when my Sabbath is disrupted by having to fix someone's car or pull the ox out of the ditch so to speak. But I am working on me in that department. As I know that is what Jesus would do.

Hmmmm....selfishness on the Sabbath? Somehow, I don't feel that is right......for me....

I'm just saying....

[Woody]

Quote:

Hmmmm....selfishness on the Sabbath? Somehow, I don't feel that is right......for me....

I'm just saying

Yes. ANd you would be right. PRaise God though that when I go into the confessional - that I face God and not you. Ha Ha !!!

[Neil D]

So, let me get this straight....

...you're gloating that you treasure the time of the Sabbath over helping others.....?

Now, that just doesnt seem right at all...Especially, since Jesus was all about helping others....'A time is more important that people'....truely, a miscarriage of religion...at least, the miscarriage of Jesus' beliefs..

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Not all will agree with me.

If you turn away your foot from [traveling unduly on] the Sabbath, from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a [spiritual] delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and honor Him and it, not going your own way or seeking or finding your own pleasure or speaking with your own [idle] words,...Isaiah 58:13 AMP

As I understand the Sabbath commandment, when pursuing a course which specifically is for the benefit of someone else and isn't necessarily seeking one's own pleasure, as long as one does it revealing the glory of God, that would seem to enhance God's care for all of His children. That which seems less than spiritual, taken with the objective of honoring God's interests in the oversight of other's interests would seem to me to reflect the concerns for all by the God of all concerns.

And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."Mark 2:27 NKJV

God blesses!

[Woody]

So, let me get this straight....

...you're gloating that you treasure the time of the Sabbath over helping others.....?

Now, that just doesnt seem right at all...Especially, since Jesus was all about helping others....'A time is more important that people'....truely, a miscarriage of religion...at least, the miscarriage of Jesus' beliefs..

Just consider that when I confess - it is not to you --- Praise the Lord. So keep your ears closed.

[Dr. Rich]

The older I get the more I enjoy Sabbath! But one experance I had after church and still in my 'good clothes' about 20 years ago, after leaving Loma Linda University Church I drove by an older woman attempting to mow her lawn and a sudden thought struck me to turn around and help her. I did just that and it shocked her so much we both enjoyed the moment. After mowing her lawn for her in my good clothes, she invited me in for a glass of fresh lemon aid.

I found out that her and her husband moved into the house from Parker AZ because he had cancer and was being treated with the new proton machine. He was very sick and in bed but wanted to ask me why I stopped to help on my Sabbath because he thought Adventists don't work on Sabbath. I had to admit that was true, but I had just had an impulse to stop. I then learned that he was a gold miner and owned lots of mines near parker and when I told him I too was a gold miner and also owned several mines, we talked about 'stuff' the rest of the afternoon and became instant friends.

Well, it did not end there as the man died a few months later and I was there for her, as she had no one to be with at the time. I then helped her with the huge problem she had with all of her mines and spent lots of time with her at her home in Parker AZ. She showed me all of the property and asked me to help her do something with it, so I wrote up a perspective, advertised it around the world, and found people to purchase her property so she would not have to worry about them again--but the thing is, during this time both of them 'found the lord' and a few years ago when she died, I too lost a very good friend. So my friends, you never know what can happen by helping someone, even on the sabbath.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

So my friends, you never know what can happen by helping someone, even on the sabbath.

"But giving thanks is a sacrifice that truly honors me. If you keep to my path, I will reveal to you the salvation of God.”"Psalm 50:23 NLT

God blesses!

[phkrause]

The older I get the more I enjoy Sabbath! But one experance I had after church and still in my 'good clothes' about 20 years ago, after leaving Loma Linda University Church I drove by an older woman attempting to mow her lawn and a sudden thought struck me to turn around and help her. I did just that and it shocked her so much we both enjoyed the moment. After mowing her lawn for her in my good clothes, she invited me in for a glass of fresh lemon aid.

I found out that her and her husband moved into the house from Parker AZ because he had cancer and was being treated with the new proton machine. He was very sick and in bed but wanted to ask me why I stopped to help on my Sabbath because he thought Adventists don't work on Sabbath. I had to admit that was true, but I had just had an impulse to stop. I then learned that he was a gold miner and owned lots of mines near parker and when I told him I too was a gold miner and also owned several mines, we talked about 'stuff' the rest of the afternoon and became instant friends.

Well, it did not end there as the man died a few months later and I was there for her, as she had no one to be with at the time. I then helped her with the huge problem she had with all of her mines and spent lots of time with her at her home in Parker AZ. She showed me all of the property and asked me to help her do something with it, so I wrote up a perspective, advertised it around the world, and found people to purchase her property so she would not have to worry about them again--but the thing is, during this time both of them 'found the lord' and a few years ago when she died, I too lost a very good friend. So my friends, you never know what can happen by helping someone, even on the sabbath.

excellent post Dr Rich.

[fccool]

It's unfortunate that most Adventist really don't get the concept, and still living in a world where a principle is broken-down into sub-rules.

Look at it this way. You son has a birthday party... a basketball game final, or a soccer game. It only happens once a year. What would be a good-enough excuse for you to miss it? I'm not sure about you, but for me, it would be:

1) Tending to sickness in my immediate family

2) Tending to some emergency... really has to be an emergency of immense scale that absolutely can't wait

3) Or working the only possible job that would allow me to put some food on the table so my family would not starve.

If there are jobs which demand the time away from my son's few important activities, and can't possibly wait a day for whatever "emergency" that exists, these jobs are not for me. These are simply not helping my relationship with my son. These are killing that relationship.

I'm not an Adventist anymore, but I "get" Sabbath. I understand why in terms of religious context it would be important to Judaism (which Adventism is a distant branch of). The idea is simply a reminder of priorities to "busy" people who get caught up in the moment and completely twist these priorities upside down.

The Sabbath is very much like you son's birthday, or your daughter's recital, but on a global level it celebrates the birthday of this world and humanity weekly. Ask yourself, what would be a good enough reason for you to miss that party of spending some free time with your friends and family? We hardly get this opportunity to do so in our society.

[phkrause]

I disagree with your whole post.