Question about Ellen White

[OzarkWoman]

OK, I am new to all of this Ellen White stuff. In fact, I just started reading the book, "The Desire of Ages". I haven't gotten very far, so don't ask me what I think of it, but so far it seems ok.

What I want to know is why and how do the SDAs figure her to be some kind of a prophet?

[Dr. Rich]

OW, that's a long story and there are many sides to this whole issue. Make sure you are first grounded in the words of Jesus first, by studying Matthew and John. Then IF anything anyone says or writes that does not agree with what Jesus said, then just remember that His words trumps all other's words. This way you will not become confused or deceived.

[BobRyan]

OK, I am new to all of this Ellen White stuff. In fact, I just started reading the book, "The Desire of Ages". I haven't gotten very far, so don't ask me what I think of it, but so far it seems ok.

What I want to know is why and how do the SDAs figure her to be some kind of a prophet?

Read the first 30 pages from the book "Early Writings" and you will get the entire story. All the books are free and can be read online.

https://egwwritings.org/

She began having visions just after the 1844 - Oct 22 "great disappointment" event of the Millerites. In Oct 22 of that year she was 17 (Ellen Harmon). But sometime after her birthday - and in Nov or Dec - she had her first vision.

Rich is correct to say that all prophetic claims are tested against the Bible - SDAs have a Bible with 66 books just like all other Protestants many of us use KJV or NKJV. In my case it is NASB.

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

OK, I am new to all of this Ellen White stuff. In fact, I just started reading the book, "The Desire of Ages". I haven't gotten very far, so don't ask me what I think of it, but so far it seems ok.

What I want to know is why and how do the SDAs figure her to be some kind of a prophet?

Ellen White's purpose was one thing and one thing only. It was to point us to scripture. So as she would say - GET INTO THE WORD. Then if you have extra time - read her.

[phkrause]

OK, I am new to all of this Ellen White stuff. In fact, I just started reading the book, "The Desire of Ages". I haven't gotten very far, so don't ask me what I think of it, but so far it seems ok.

What I want to know is why and how do the SDAs figure her to be some kind of a prophet?

I have had a hard time reading any of her writings. Never was interested at first either. In my 30's I finally sat down and read the Great Controversy. I loved history, world and US, so when I got into the book I couldn't put it down. We also read it for worship. One of the best books I've ever read. But haven't read it for quite a while now. Need to read it again. She does pass all the tests of a Prophet.

[Gerr]

Probably the best way to find out whether the claim is true or not is to read her writings for yourself and compare them with the Bible. I, for one, am convinced that she was.

[OzarkWoman]

Probably the best way to find out whether the claim is true or not is to read her writings for yourself and compare them with the Bible. I, for one, am convinced that she was.

I didn't aks if she was or not. What I wanted to know was how and why the church came to the conclusion that she was.

[Kevin H]

Too often with Mrs. White we loose the forest for the trees. She sees herself has having a framework that she understands as having come from God then the rest is how she worked on wanting to share what God told her.

She reports that her visions were like seeing photographs that she needed to discribe. She had set theams, first telling the Millerites not to give up their Millerite expirence, that it was from God's leading. Then the orginazation of the church, schools and medial system, then came her crowning work, the issues of the great controvesy; the infinite impersonal yet finite personal God, the role of the trinity, the law of self sacrificing love, freedom of choice, how Lucifer asked good questions about God but instead of looking for answers he became proud of being clever enough to come up with these questions and developed them into three lies about God (each attacking a member of the trinity) how history plays out to answer these questions so that the angels and unfallen worlds would have a mature faith and settled into their faithfulness to God and how working with us sinners how the questions are played out and how God can change our lives and as our characters become fully developed into either loving the world as Jesus has loved it, or being as selfish as Satan Jesus will return. While some Adventists would dissagree with this, I also understand her teaching that hell fire is simply the physical visable pressence of God in all his love and glory and beauty. That Jesus is our deepest desire, and we are all attracted to his beauty and irrisistable love. For those of us who developed the characteristic trend to yield to the Holy Spirit, we come to thrive being in this fire and it becomes heaven for us. For those who characterisically rejects the Holy Spirit, it is a stale mate of God continuing to plead his love and doing everything short of forcing the will, the sinner wanting to yeild but having destroyed his ability to choose as he fears that God will get them for their sins and they want to come but won't and as God's love and grace is irrisistable, they simply cannot exist resisting this love and thus it distroys them.

[Kevin H]

The conclusion came to her first showing something supernatural (one of the tests that she gave for a prophet was to throw cold water in their face while in vision)

But this supernaturalism only showed that there was something supernatural, it could be from God or Satan

But she also kept pointing back to scripture, using scripture as her foundation and agreeing with former prophets about the role of God's law as a reflection of his character of self sacrificing love. She faught fanaticism (otherwise we'd be 7th day Jehovah's Witnesses) and lead us into orthodoxy on the major theams, yet shielded us from becomeing too liberal a church, and tried (and failed) to prevent us from becoming too conservative a church, and tried to maintain a moderate approach.

[miz3]

Too often with Mrs. White we loose the forest for the trees. She sees herself has having a framework that she understands as having come from God then the rest is how she worked on wanting to share what God told her.

She reports that her visions were like seeing photographs that she needed to discribe. She had set theams, first telling the Millerites not to give up their Millerite expirence, that it was from God's leading. Then the orginazation of the church, schools and medial system, then came her crowning work, the issues of the great controvesy; the infinite impersonal yet finite personal God, the role of the trinity, the law of self sacrificing love, freedom of choice, how Lucifer asked good questions about God but instead of looking for answers he became proud of being clever enough to come up with these questions and developed them into three lies about God (each attacking a member of the trinity) how history plays out to answer these questions so that the angels and unfallen worlds would have a mature faith and settled into their faithfulness to God and how working with us sinners how the questions are played out and how God can change our lives and as our characters become fully developed into either loving the world as Jesus has loved it, or being as selfish as Satan Jesus will return. While some Adventists would dissagree with this, I also understand her teaching that hell fire is simply the physical visable pressence of God in all his love and glory and beauty. That Jesus is our deepest desire, and we are all attracted to his beauty and irrisistable love. For those of us who developed the characteristic trend to yield to the Holy Spirit, we come to thrive being in this fire and it becomes heaven for us. For those who characterisically rejects the Holy Spirit, it is a stale mate of God continuing to plead his love and doing everything short of forcing the will, the sinner wanting to yeild but having destroyed his ability to choose as he fears that God will get them for their sins and they want to come but won't and as God's love and grace is irrisistable, they simply cannot exist resisting this love and thus it distroys them.

Huh?

[Kevin H]

You've lost the forrest for the trees. You are so sucked into the myth of Mrs. White (which you rightfully reject) that you miss what she says about herself and thus end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It is sad that too many when they see her words instead of the traditons built around her end up asking "Huh?" It shows how much we failed her. Excellent question, I hope that you will come to the answer of that "Huh?" and see the core of her message.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Probably the best way to find out whether the claim is true or not is to read her writings for yourself and compare them with the Bible. I, for one, am convinced that she was.

I didn't aks if she was or not. What I wanted to know was how and why the church came to the conclusion that she was.

Many of the early pioneers questioned/doubted her gift and were wary, just as there are doubters today, but many of them witnessed her in vision and became convinced of the supernatural nature of her visions. The messages she received in her visions not only for the early believers in general but also for certain individuals in particular, not only convinced them of the authenticity of the gift, but were crucial in establishing the church on a firm footing. How the early Adventist pioneers came to accept her prophetic gift in fact makes for an interesting reading/study. Without her prophetic guidance, I have no doubt there would not be the extensive Adventist health, educational, and publishing system that we have today. And poverty not withstanding, she had the greatest impact in my choice and pursuit of a career.

[Gustave]

OK, I am new to all of this Ellen White stuff. In fact, I just started reading the book, "The Desire of Ages". I haven't gotten very far, so don't ask me what I think of it, but so far it seems ok.

What I want to know is why and how do the SDAs figure her to be some kind of a prophet?

I thought that the SDA pastor of the SDA church you had been attending wouldn't baptize you...

...Because you were having trouble with smoking.

...And he didn't want to perform the ritual because you were still smoking?

One of the Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA church is that you are required.....

...To view Ellen White as a real prophet and accept her teachings.

...As a continuing source of Religious Authority.

I guess your question has me asking one myself....

...And that was if you could be baptized without knowing the "why" part of Ellen White?

...And just slowly ease into what they say after Baptism.

...Then why all the hype about smoking preventing SDA Baptism?

I guess my other question is why would smoking be a road-block to SDA Baptism....

...Yet ignorance of Ellen White isn't and a person could be Baptized w/out really knowing anything about her?

[OzarkWoman]

I guess that you would need to ask the pastor at the church I attend.

[Lysimachus]

I didn't aks if she was or not. What I wanted to know was how and why the church came to the conclusion that she was.

After reading the book, "The Second Great Advent Movement" by J.N. Loughborough, it became pretty evident why. Accepting her as a prophet was a gradual process that took many years.

She experienced over 2000 visions. And she would make predictions about certain people's lives, of the fate that awaited them if they did not change, and many times the fate of these people was pointed out in front of everyone after she made the prediction, and it caused everyone to be shocked and amazed.

The accounts are numerous. Many times she'd go into vision in front of the whole congregation, not breathing, but moving around the room by the spirit of God. They'd test to see if she was breathing, and she was not. Then she'd lift up a 40 pound Bible and hold it up into the air for 30min. to 1 hour with one hand, with her arm extended out, without ever getting tired. Then she'd take her other hand and start flipping the pages of the Bible over her head, and start quoting the scriptures she was pointing at with her fingers. Several men and women got up on a chair to see if she if her finger was pointing to the same verse that she was verbally quoting, and sure enough! She was!

The accounts of things like this happening were more than one can imagine. 2000+ visions was just too much to deny. Too many testimonials.

No other prophet in human history experienced this many visions, and this many manifestations.

Not one single prophet ever in the history of man-kind beats her in the amount of visions, and the amount of supernatural manifestations.

She also wrote more than any prophet the world has ever seen. Over 100,000 pages of manuscripts!!! UNHEARD OF!

And not ONE of her predictions ever failed.

Check this out here: http://www.ellenwhite.info/visions_super.htm

Read those and be amazed--those are just a "few" of all that is out there.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Probably the best way to find out whether the claim is true or not is to read her writings for yourself and compare them with the Bible. I, for one, am convinced that she was.

I didn't aks if she was or not. What I wanted to know was how and why the church came to the conclusion that she was.

hence my pointing you to that 30 pages of material - in autobiography format explaining the whole thing.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

The conclusion came to her first showing something supernatural (one of the tests that she gave for a prophet was to throw cold water in their face while in vision)

If you have some quote saying that she ever taught that as a "test of a prophet" I would be interested to see it.

in Christ,

Bob

[Lysimachus]

You've lost the forrest for the trees. You are so sucked into the myth of Mrs. White (which you rightfully reject) that you miss what she says about herself and thus end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It is sad that too many when they see her words instead of the traditons built around her end up asking "Huh?" It shows how much we failed her. Excellent question, I hope that you will come to the answer of that "Huh?" and see the core of her message.

This whole time that I've known you, I always thought you accepted the Spirit of Prophecy fully? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Raphael]

I believe Kevin H is saying that some people have lost sight of the whole story due to too much focus on singular items, where everything in end will be finally measured up to the big picture..

Which is exactly in line with EGW's own statements that she's simply a lesser light pointing to the bigger light of the Bible.

It's confusing for SDA outsiders but actually SDAs in general don't put EGW above the written word of God, its something between the lines in community SDA internal communication among each other.

EGW guides SDAs into understanding Bible truths, which was very essential during the founding of the SDA church. SDA's believe that without God's guidance through EGW, there would be no current SDA organization.

[phkrause]

I believe Kevin H is saying that some people have lost sight of the whole story due to too much focus on singular items, where everything in end will be finally measured up to the big picture..

Which is exactly in line with EGW's own statements that she's simply a lesser light pointing to the bigger light of the Bible.

It's confusing for SDA outsiders but actually SDAs in general don't put EGW above the written word of God, its something between the lines in community SDA internal communication among each other.

EGW guides SDAs into understanding Bible truths, which was very essential during the founding of the SDA church. SDA's believe that without God's guidance through EGW, there would be no current SDA organization.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

You've lost the forrest for the trees. You are so sucked into the myth of Mrs. White (which you rightfully reject) that you miss what she says about herself and thus end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It is sad that too many when they see her words instead of the traditons built around her end up asking "Huh?" It shows how much we failed her. Excellent question, I hope that you will come to the answer of that "Huh?" and see the core of her message.

This whole time that I've known you, I always thought you accepted the Spirit of Prophecy fully? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Depends on what you mean by accepting the Spirit of Prophecy fully. I accept her as I understand how she explained how she wanted to be used, and how I believe that A. G. Daniels, W. W. Prescott and Willie White and the Religion department at Washington Missionary College in around 1919, and how the Religion department at AUC accepted her in the late 1970s early 1980s. I do not accept her "fully" in the same sense that Stephen Haskell accepted her (which has become traditional Adventism) and the view pushed by the 1923 General Conference, and not the way Elder Wilkerson accepted her (which became the way of the so-called Historic Adventists). But yes, I am proud to say that I believe that Mrs. White was a prophet with full prophetic authority.

[Kevin H]

I do accept the Spirit of Prophecy fully, however since there are historically the 3 major schools of thought on how to use the Spirit of Prophecy, with two of these views being very popular since the 1920s (as well as inbetween views, and in recent decades there has developed a fourth view, which I reject, of only seeing her as having a pastoral/devotional role) I wanted to clearify which one is my approach.

[Gustave]

I guess that you would need to ask the pastor at the church I attend.

I guess I'm shocked you didn't ask...

...I mean it's your baptism.

[OzarkWoman]

I guess I'm shocked you didn't ask...

...I mean it's your baptism.

I am so sorry that I didn't ask the pastor. It isn't like I haven't been dealing with lots of other issues on my plate. When your spouse dies and you have to deal with a different financial state and all of the ramifications, then I wonder if you would remember everything you should ask someone. I guess that I just need to be the perfect widow and remember every little thing that I am supposed to remember. Since you are so perfect maybe you can tell me how to act, what to wear and etc.

[phkrause]

I am so sorry that I didn't ask the pastor. It isn't like I haven't been dealing with lots of other issues on my plate. When your spouse dies and you have to deal with a different financial state and all of the ramifications, then I wonder if you would remember everything you should ask someone. I guess that I just need to be the perfect widow and remember every little thing that I am supposed to remember. Since you are so perfect maybe you can tell me how to act, what to wear and etc.

great post OW. Here I am without those issue's and I can't remember halt the time to ask about certain things. Some people seem to know everything? After the fact, like they say hindsight is always 20/20. Have a great day1 Don't let certain comments ruin your day.