Evidence needed

[Stan]

Can you provide enough evidence from the Bible, to convince a fresh eye to Christianity that We should "pray to Jesus".

[phkrause]

Great question.

[Woody]

depends upon the 'fresh eye' and how much faith the eye has.

[cricket]

I've never been clear on that, personally. Jesus teaches us to pray to our Father, so that's what I do.

[Stan]

I've never been clear on that, personally. Jesus teaches us to pray to our Father, so that's what I do.

Am with you on that.

[Stan]

depends upon the 'fresh eye' and how much faith the eye has.

More interested in Biblical statements about praying to Jesus..

[Woody]

Well our prophet tell us in many places to pray to Jesus.

Here is just one:

Quote:

If we are under infirmities of body it is certainly consistent to trust in the Lord, making supplications to our God in our own case, and if we feel inclined to ask others in whom we have confidence, to unite with us in prayer to Jesus who is the mighty Healer, help will surely come if we ask in faith. I think we are altogether too faithless, too cold and lukewarm. {PC 28.1}

But if you are wanting scripture - I really have no idea except to say that if one believes in the Trinity - then it really does not matter which figure of the Godhead that you pray to in my mind.

Just my 2 cents worth (for what that is worth)

[Stan]

Please do not turn this into something about the Trinity.

[Woody]

Feel free to delete my response then Stan. I had no intentions of turning the discussion into anything. Just giving my heartfelt answer. And if you would prefer I not bring EGW into it - then just delete the entire response period. I just was not aware of all the restrictions on this particular thread.

[LynnDel]

Can you provide enough evidence to convince a fresh eye to Christianity that We should "pray to Jesus".

Do we need to convince a fresh eye to Christianity to pray to Jesus? As has already been said, Jesus' example, when He taught His disciples to pray, was praying to His Father. I can't think of a scripture that directly instructs us to pray to Jesus, but there are Jesus' statements that remind us that He and the Father are one, and if you have seen Him you have seen the Father -- those might be used as an explanation that we can pray to Jesus.

[Woody]

Quote:

but there are Jesus' statements that remind us that He and the Father are one, and if you have seen Him you have seen the Father -- those might be used as an explanation that we can pray to Jesus.

Exactly. That was my point regarding the Trinity. But apparently this line of thought is out of bounds for this particular thread. :(

[Stan]

I erred and just corrected it, I added the words "from the Bible" that should have been there in the beginning, as it was in my head when I thought about asking that.

[Stan]

so let me reword this, if you had a non christian ask you, one who believes in a God who created the heaven and earth, what biblical teaching says to pray to his son and not to him.

[LynnDel]

I don't believe there is such a teaching, Stan. The only example of someone praying to Jesus was Stephen, when he was stoned and prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

So how would you respond, knowing there is no verse that says we should pray to Jesus?

[Woody]

Quote:

what biblical teaching says to pray to his son and not to him.

Since Jesus himself said to pray to the Father. I can't imagine a verse that would say to NOT pray to the Father.

[Kevin H]

I'm sorry Stan, but I have to explain it from the trinity. Outside of time and space it is only one God. the trinity are 3 individuals that teach us three aspects of the one infinite God. God the Father represents God as power, and God the Son represents God as our personal friend. This consept is in the Old Testament, the idea of El (God) is the consept of God as power, or God the Father, and the idea of Yahweh (The Lord) is God as personal friend, or God the Son. And we find in prayers in the Old Testament some are prayers to El,God as power, God the Father, others are prayers to the Lord, to the personal aspect, God the Son.

While the 3 members are seperate and distinct beings in the relm of time and space, we have to remember outside of time and space it is only one infinite being.

[BobRyan]

so let me reword this, if you had a non christian ask you, one who believes in a God who created the heaven and earth, what biblical teaching says to pray to his son and not to him.

That is indeed carefully worded.

Why in the world would we want to argue for praying to Jesus "and not to God the Father"??

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Stan

so let me reword this, if you had a non christian ask you, one who believes in a God who created the heaven and earth, what biblical teaching says to pray to his son and not to him.

That is indeed carefully worded.

Why in the world would we want to argue for praying to Jesus "and not to God the Father"??

Exactly. It makes no sense to me. I'm just hoping that Stan will drop by and explain this.

In this thread - Stan refuses to hear the answer (which is what Kevin wrote above) but instead asks to hear something that is totally unBiblical as you have mentioned.

It leaves me totally confused.

[Raphael]

Well, just tell the guy to lighten up & not to take things too seriously because it really doesn't matter as long as the prayer is closed in Christ's officiating name. Then bring him to SDA potluck or other SDA social activities..

[Stan]

Does anyone SUCCESFULLY interact others.

[cricket]

Does anyone SUCCESFULLY interact others.

Not 100% of the time, no.

[skyblue888]

Can you provide enough evidence to convince a fresh eye to Christianity that We should "pray to Jesus".

Do we need to convince a fresh eye to Christianity to pray to Jesus? As has already been said, Jesus' example, when He taught His disciples to pray, was praying to His Father. I can't think of a scripture that directly instructs us to pray to Jesus, but there are Jesus' statements that remind us that He and the Father are one, and if you have seen Him you have seen the Father -- those might be used as an explanation that we can pray to Jesus.

LynnDel

______________________

But did not Jesus teach His disciples to pray to the Father in His name? Why? Is it not because His is the only meritorious name?

The first thing I would do is to bring attention to the fact that all the religions of the world seek to gain the approval of God or of the gods through creature merits. There is a very good reason why that is so. Even the Jewish people had been blinded by Satan to think that fasting was meritorious to earn God's favor. In order to take the attention of the people away from the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, Satan invented many useless follies exalting the merits of the creature instead of the merits of Christ which alone avail with God.

I was raised being told to approach God by praying to Mary the mother of Jesus and to the saints because of their so-called merits, the so-called merits of their good works, and that on account of these so-called merits they could intercede before God in my behalf.

So it would seem that the merits of the creature are the all essentials for all the religions of this world in order to gain the favor of God or of the gods.

But the truth of the Bible is that the merits of Christ's sacrifice alone will avail in our behalf. Indeed, it is the truth of the Scriptures that in Gethsemane, during His trial, and at Calvary Jesus accepted to be treated according to our demerits that we might be treated according to His all-sufficient merits!

Thus as we approach God pleading the merits of Christ's shed blood in our behalf, Jesus places us close by His side, encircling us with his human arm while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite, always keeping in mind that the value of His shed blood is beyond estimate because it was the life of God in His Son.

Rom.3:25; 2 Cor.5:19.

sky

[fccool]

Hmm....

Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

[Overaged]

I've never been clear on that, personally. Jesus teaches us to pray to our Father, so that's what I do.

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: cricket

I've never been clear on that, personally. Jesus teaches us to pray to our Father, so that's what I do.

I am not sure just why Stan 'needs' evidence for this point about praying to Jesus, in the way that he is asking. But I am sure about one thing. When Jesus was Incarnate; and lived on earth amongst mankind, did not His disciples pray to Him quite a bit? I mean - directly to Jesus?

Quote:

Mat_8:25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

It is interesting to consider that speaking directly to Jesus incarnate could be considered praying.