YOUR solution to poverty?

[Gerr]

The gov't has gotten a lot of flack for the trillions spent to fight poverty since Johnson's "Great Society" programs with little to show for it. If you had the power, the mandate, to change the culture of powerty, how would you go about it?

[olger]

I would make them lazy folks work real good. You want food stamps? Sure. you must bring in a bag of trash picked up along a road for every $7 stamp.

Then I would get the government out of small business' life. Let them focus on national security issues, in lieu of hassling honest businessmen.

Then the economy would blossom. (No offense to Blossom).

[phkrause]

God showed us how to take care of that in the OT. It worked as long as they followed his instructions. But as always greed comes into play, just as today.

[bonnie]

God showed us how to take care of that in the OT. It worked as long as they followed his instructions. But as always greed comes into play, just as today.

Greed and envy have been with us since Cain smacked Abel upside the head with a rock.Keep in mind,I am using "you" and "me" in a general way.Yes,there are crooks in this world,when has that stopped generations of successful poor,uneducated,disadvantaged from doing better than the poor,uneducated,disadvantaged that does not move from that spot?

Assuming you believe that it is understood there are those that thru no fault of their own cannot and need an extra push or because of illness need our continued help

Has any "greedy" person prevented you from succeeding? Or do you define greed as those that work harder,take more chances or are born wealthy as owing you something?

Has a greedy person come in and stolen the proceeds of your hard labor?

Is there only a finite number of dollars in the world and the "greedy" person has stolen more than his share?

[fccool]

Quote:

Has any "greedy" person prevented you from succeeding? Or do you define greed as those that work harder,take more chances or are born wealthy as owing you something?

Has a greedy person come in and stolen the proceeds of your hard labor?

Is there only a finite number of dollars in the world and the "greedy" person has stolen more than his share?

The issue here is not of the "greed", but of opportunity. What becomes of the system when paper-pushing and gambling ends up reaping enormous profits without actually producing any products for the economy? Let's compare an ordinary Joe Blow to a CEO of the Bank, for example.

The Joe Blow works hard most of his life to make the ends meet. The Bank provides money for the economy to work, and it benefits from it disproportionally than Joe does. The banks gambles, bends the rules, walks the thin line of loosing all of the depositor's cash for the sake of making the maximum amount of profits for itself and its executives.

The CEO in charge makes millions, because he is at the forefront of the financial money creation scheme. Joe on the other hand, not merely risk of loosing his life-savings, but he actually does overtime, because the value of the money diluted by means of inflation.

So, if a poor person was making 15k a year, and the inflation rate (the money created and infused by the banks and then used by the corporate interest who get dibs) is 7% per year, and yet he has not been given any raise for 5-6 years... do the math.

It's very easy to blame to poor, and not evaluate the polarizing system that creates and perpetuates such poverty. If you really would like to see the likes of the "let the rich do their thing" system... just look at FoxConn... these types of things will be coming to America fairly soon, if the minimum wage laws are dropped, and poor would be encouraged to just find any job.

So, the short answer... yes. The greed of the Banking elite, and their immediate benefactors syphons the wealth from the poor to the rich over time. The rich get richer, the poor get even more desperate and more poor, and are willing to take on suicide-inducing jobs like FoxConn workers in China. The issue here is that the system is no longer of "separate companies" producing goods. The system is of conglomerate and interconnected corporations that essentially end up owning all of the means of production, all of the capital, the land, the governments, the law, and anything you name it. A person who is then born into such system has a choice of starvation, or joining them and working a job that ends up driving him more into the poverty and desperate conditions, other than actually solving anything.

If you really doubt that, then ask the very simple question. Who benefited the most from the 2008 economic crisis?

[olger]

While helping people who have a legitimate need is worth it, you simply cannot help the "I'm poor because I choose to be" crowd with money.

They will break your best efforts to change them.

[jasd]

QR frame:

First, we legislate the Democrat Party out of existance, as they have become an active fifth column. [/seriously] Then we restrict run-amok lawyering. Next we elect a People’s Czar (disenfranchising the current mess of Czars) whose sole job description is ‘Get the White Collar Criminal’ turning [them] over to Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his Maricopa County Tent City.

Now, one may then proceed with the constructive: enact a mandatory draft for every male and female immediately upon graduating from High School and/or upon turning 18 – to a minimum term of two years serving Uncle Sam whilst learning a trade. The purpose being – to properly train them (rather than hastening our children through boot camp) for the eventuality of war and to equip each draftee with the experience to reenter polite society having the means to be gainfully employed/employable...

A filtering process would separate those exhibiting the most potential – and fast-tracking them as our hope for a sustainable future.

Those who simply won’t or can’t get with the program – we neuter them to ensure that they cannot contribute to or otherwise corrupt the gene pool.

At least we’d then have a handle on poverty.

[Tom Wetmore]

While helping people who have a legitimate need is worth it, you simply cannot help the "I'm poor because I choose to be" crowd with money.

They will break your best efforts to change them.

What percentage of those receiving any form of government assistance do you think fit into that "I'm poor because I choose to be" category?

[bonnie]

While helping people who have a legitimate need is worth it, you simply cannot help the "I'm poor because I choose to be" crowd with money.

They will break your best efforts to change them.

Those that do begin their lives in poverty and do not rely on government help,gain an education and skill and rise above the poverty level must be able to live in a world without inflation, evil bankers and CEO's.

Wonder what the difference is between the young woman,unmarried and a child working three jobs,attending college thru online classes,pay as she goes and the other young woman that has a child,unmarried with a child and cannot find a job that "suits" her and is waiting for just the right one to come along,food stamps,welfare check,medical and housing in the meantime,paid for by taxpayers..

The neighbor and his wife working four jobs between them as they got in to deep just before the recession,and their situation is getting better right along,no government aid.Where is the inflation,bankers,CEO's that stop them from succeeding?

Two doors down the man that couldn't find a job for two years and on food stamps and medical,unemployment found two jobs when his wife said,Out or get a job and take care of your children.Suddenly the bankers etc that were responsible for his financial situation seemed to have disappeared.

[Bravus]

{ignores everything that has gone before in the thread to answer the question}

The only real and final solution to poverty is the Second Coming.

Short of that, the best solution available on this earth is conversion for everyone, rich and poor alike. If every person on earth truly lived by the counsel in the Bible, poverty would be, if not eliminated, massively decreased.

That includes each person taking responsibility first for him/herself, then his/her family, then neighbours (as defined by Jesus).

Pointing outward is unhelpful when only an inward change will do anything effective. So I will take Gerry's excellent question and do my own little bit to solving poverty within my own circles of influence.

[phkrause]

{ignores everything that has gone before in the thread to answer the question}

The only real and final solution to poverty is the Second Coming.

Short of that, the best solution available on this earth is conversion for everyone, rich and poor alike. If every person on earth truly lived by the counsel in the Bible, poverty would be, if not eliminated, massively decreased.

That includes each person taking responsibility first for him/herself, then his/her family, then neighbours (as defined by Jesus).

Pointing outward is unhelpful when only an inward change will do anything effective. So I will take Gerry's excellent question and do my own little bit to solving poverty within my own circles of influence.

[cricket]

I have no solution to change the culture of poverty for the masses. For it is written,

6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, at the home of Simon the leper, 7 a woman came to Him with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume, and she poured it on His head as He reclined at the table. 8 But the disciples were indignant when they saw this, and said, “Why this waste? 9 For this perfume might have been sold for a high price and the money given to the poor.” 10 But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you bother the woman? For she has done a good deed to Me. 11 For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have Me. 12 For when she poured this perfume on My body, she did it to prepare Me for burial. 13 Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be spoken of in memory of her.”

[Bravus]

True, but I don't think Jesus was saying 'The poor *should* be always with you, so don't do anything about it'! He was recognising the realities of life, and speaking about the priorities that placed worship ahead of charity. (And, I suspect, of ostentatious fake charity - the disciples seem to have been missing the point.)

[cricket]

Is reality different now?

Is there a time or place for charity in our houses of worship?

Will there ever be a time when the poor are not with us?

Can we ever change the culture of poverty among the masses?

Did Jesus' own life and example express the culture of poverty in His everyday living?

Is there such a thing as fake charity if the contributions benefit a positive change in the poor?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Is there only a finite number of dollars in the world and the "greedy" person has stolen more than his share?

Since all the wealth of the world was created by and is God's to give to whom He will, therefor the one who takes, no matter in what way, without dependence upon the Giver, and especially as they know of others who are suffering want without regarding the need while they (whoever the "they" might signify) have more than is meet, greed is the proper term to indicate.

"He who has a generous eye will be blessed, For he gives of his bread to the poor." Proverbs 22:9 NKJV

God blesses!

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

While helping people who have a legitimate need is worth it, you simply cannot help the "I'm poor because I choose to be" crowd with money.

They will break your best efforts to change them.

What percentage of those receiving any form of government assistance do you think fit into that "I'm poor because I choose to be" category?

A growing percentage under the current political admin..

[LifeHiscost]

{ignores everything that has gone before in the thread to answer the question}

The only real and final solution to poverty is the Second Coming.

Short of that, the best solution available on this earth is conversion for everyone, rich and poor alike. If every person on earth truly lived by the counsel in the Bible, poverty would be, if not eliminated, massively decreased.

That includes each person taking responsibility first for him/herself, then his/her family, then neighbours (as defined by Jesus).

Pointing outward is unhelpful when only an inward change will do anything effective. So I will take Gerry's excellent question and do my own little bit to solving poverty within my own circles of influence.

[LifeHiscost]

True, but I don't think Jesus was saying 'The poor *should* be always with you, so don't do anything about it'! He was recognising the realities of life, and speaking about the priorities that placed worship ahead of charity. (And, I suspect, of ostentatious fake charity - the disciples seem to have been missing the point.)

God blesses!

[Bravus]

It's possible I was misunderstood. I meant that Jesus was *promoting* a sense of priorities that placed worship before charity. And was agreeing with that sense of priorities. Since the first two poles of my solution both rely wholly on God, worship is the priority.

[Gerr]

Those that do begin their lives in poverty and do not rely on government help,gain an education and skill and rise above the poverty level must be able to live in a world without inflation, evil bankers and CEO's.

Here is how 2 poor boys, one a teenager and the other a pre-teen, and one young girl got out of poverty. Their father who only had a 5th grade education came to the US after WWII to work in the Hawaian sugarcane plantation. After a few years he gained his citizenship and brought his 2 sons to the USA, and then later the young daughter. They lived in a camp housing rented from the plantation owners. Both boys saw how hard their father worked and were determined not to be stuck in the same hardship. Both went on to college. They took longer than the usual 4 years to finish because they had to work. The younger became a teacher. The daughter became a nurse. The older went on to grad school with only a few dollars in his pocket. With the help of low interest loans, faith and prayer,and a lot of encouragement from caring friends, he did graduate and paid back all the loans.

[bonnie]

Here is how 2 poor boys, one a teenager and the other a pre-teen, and one young girl got out of poverty. Their father who only had a 5th grade education came to the US after WWII to work in the Hawaian sugarcane plantation. After a few years he gained his citizenship and brought his 2 sons to the USA, and then later the young daughter. They lived in a camp housing rented from the plantation owners. Both boys saw how hard their father worked and were determined not to be stuck in the same hardship. Both went on to college. They took longer than the usual 4 years to finish because they had to work. The younger became a teacher. The daughter became a nurse. The older went on to grad school with only a few dollars in his pocket. With the help of low interest loans, faith and prayer,and a lot of encouragement from caring friends, he did graduate and paid back all the loans.

So how was this done? What is the missing ingredient between the children above and the ones that say "I can't" I am poor"

"Those bankers and CEO's won't let me make more than 15,000 a year"?

Not speaking of those that cannot do for themselves.

[Naomi]

A tale of two families: They lived a half mile apart. They were so poor that they didn't know that they were poor.

Until they were teenagers almost alll clothes were made at home, sometimes old sewing machines didn't work and the clothes were made by hand with needle & thread. Materials were usually from colored feed sacks which women saved and traded to have enough to match. Food eaten year around was what was grown in the garden or otherwise raised and preserved When soles wore out cardboard or whatever else could be found was used to fill the holes.

They were very proud of never having to take anything from the government or no one ever being in jail.

Each family had two children; 1 boy and 1 girl. All 4 went to college. Boys went to college and received PhD's ... parents could help very little and the boys worked nights and went to class during the day. For a couple of years one drove a gasoline transport truck from Nebraska to Colorado 5 nights a week and was in class during the day. The other worked as a janitor and anything else he could find. Different races, different colleges, same values ... lifelong friends!

[olger]

Large LIKE

[Gerr]

My observation is that most people who succeed in anything, or get out of poverty for that matter, do so with SOME help from someone along the way. Read the inspiring story of Marquise Lee in the Orange County Register (newspaper).

[phkrause]

Great point Gerry