Unpublished Writings of Ellen White Ministry

[TreeOfLife]

Originally Posted By: SDAnonymous

We did find an instance where she used the word "trinity", but it doesn't favor any of the positions... it's rather neutral.

John317, it is -

The Eternal Dignitaries of the Trinity.--The eternal heavenly dignitaries--God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit...--Manuscript 145, 1901. {Ev 616.4}

Gibs,

What proof or evidence do you have for that subtitle (including the word 'Trinity') to constitute original words written by Ellen White, and not the words of a later editor?

[Gibs]

TreeOfLife,

I think she saw "trinity" in an all together different light than trinitarian advocates do of today.

I do not care to use her writings to show there is not three Gods. Really I don't find she did either.

Just a few Bible verses make it very clear and there is no need of me going to her writings.

I stand with Isaiah and there is plenty more,

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[John317]

We did find an instance where she used the word "trinity", but it doesn't favor any of the positions... it's rather neutral.

Originally Posted By: Gibs

it is -

The Eternal Dignitaries of the Trinity.--The eternal heavenly dignitaries--God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit--arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy, . . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.--Manuscript 145, 1901. {Ev 616.4}

The the word "Trinity" is not being used here by Ellen White herself but by the editors of Evangelism.

I believe Ellen White was writing about what the SDA Church understands as the Trinity, but she herself never used the word, although her writings do contain the concept. It's the same with the Bible; the word Trinity isn't in it but the concept of one God manifested in Three divine Persons is found throughout the Scriptures.

[John317]

I do not care to use her writings to show there is not three Gods. Really I don't find she did either.

You are right here, Gibs. There is not three Gods. What there is is one God who is manifested as Three Persons. We worship one God.

[John317]

Mrs. White in her will provided for a group of people to take care of her writings ....[it] is no longer necessary to keep these documents out of the public eye.

Yes, I completely agree. That's why all of her writings are gradually being brought out.

[John317]

.... We have found a few statements of interest so far, but we're busy compiling, and not analyzing so much. We did find an instance where she used the word "trinity", but it doesn't favor any of the positions... it's rather neutral.

Aren't you talking about places in her books, such as Evangelism, where editors added the word "Trinity" in the subtitles? It is inaccurate to say that Ellen White used it unless she herself actually penned the word.

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

I do not care to use her writings to show there is not three Gods. Really I don't find she did either.

You are right here, Gibs. There is not three Gods. What there is is one God who is manifested as Three Persons. We worship one God.

You define "GOD" as a "unity of three co-eternal Persons" See http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/ No. 2.

Therefore, you worship a "unity" or a committee

Please, give me a "thus saith the LORD" which commands a person to worship of a "unity" or committee.

Did Jesus Christ worship a "unity" or a committee??

[Windsor]

Did Jesus Christ worship a "unity" or a committee??

Moses, who spoke to God as a Friend, quoted God as saying "Let Us make man in Our image." Now for once could we simply let the Trinity debate remain in a Trinity thread instead of constantly bringing it into other discussions. It's probably one of the least important of all theological topics.

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

Did Jesus Christ worship a "unity" or a committee??

Moses, who spoke to God as a Friend, quoted God as saying "Let Us make man in Our image." Now for once could we simply let the Trinity debate remain in a Trinity thread instead of constantly bringing it into other discussions. It's probably one of the least important of all theological topics.

I was commenting on John 317 note to Gibs which brought the trinity debate into this thread.

[monty]

Windsor....Your point is well taken in having the "Trinity debate" jump from thread to thread. However stating this theological topic is "one of the least important of all" is inaccurate. IMHO. Since the entry of sin Satan has introduced polytheism to confuse and distract from our Sovereign, Creator God. Monotheism has always been a hallmark of the followers of the True God. A divider between the obedient and the disobedient and hence a very important topic.

[Gordon1]

Yes, I completely agree. That's why all of her writings are gradually being brought out.

But where is the justification for hiding it from generations of Adventists?

Did EGW ever instruct that a large portion of her labours should be kept hidden for one hundred years?

Where did God ever work that way with his message?

He gave prophets light to be published. Perhaps for future interpretation, but not to be hidden away.

When God had more light to give, He raised up another prophet.

[Gordon1]

Trinity....It's probably one of the least important of all theological topics.

So some believe. But the Trinity is claimed by the Church of Rome as her central doctrine, upon which all her other doctrines are built.

As J.H Waggoner (SDA pioneer 1820-1889) wrote, "the doctrine of the Trinity is subversive of the Atonement".

The Atonement represents our Sanctuary message, with Christ as High Priest mediating before the Father. But the Trinity doctrine makes them one person, rendering the Atonement & Sanctuary service of both Exodus and Revelation, nothing but a foolish myth.

No wonder Adventists are confused.

The Sanctuary is our central doctrine. (The Son of God our Mediator)

The Trinity is Rome's central doctrine. (Her wine - Rev. 14:8)

One nullifies the other. They cannot coexist.

[Windsor]

One big problem is that we can't even agree on what the definition of a Trinitarian belief is! Let's take this to one of the Trinity threads.

[Gordon1]

The SDA Church first accepted the Trinity doctrine at the 1980 General Conference session in Dallas, Texas.

[Enabled]

I realize this is still off topic yet relative to the comments made:)

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

According to the scripture: One God and one Lord, yet also according to the scripture the Christ is the Lord God of Israel. One supreme Father of all with a son our (Israel's God)our Lord and master for the appointed time.

One God having a Son who is by virtue of his person also divine and worthy of worship.

Who we serve is of every importance and the question that separates the Goats from the sheep.

Please consider this statement before accepting that the topic of who God is, as unimportant:

No outward shrines may be visible, there may be no image for the eye to rest upon, yet we may be practicing idolatry. It is as easy to make an idol of cherished ideas or objects as to fashion gods of wood or stone. Thousands have a false conception of God and His attributes. They are as verily serving a FALSE GOD as were the servants of Baal. Are we worshiping the true God as He is revealed in His word, in Christ, in nature, or are we adoring some philosophical idol enshrined in His place? God is a God of truth. Justice and mercy are the attributes of His throne. He is a God of love, of pity and tender compassion. Thus He is represented in His Son, our Saviour. He is a God of patience and long-suffering. If such is the being whom we adore and to whose character we are seeking to assimilate, we are worshiping the true God" 5T 173

We must worship him in Spirit and in truth!

Back on topic we hope.

Happy Sabbath

[Windsor]

The SDA Church first accepted the Trinity doctrine at the 1980 General Conference session in Dallas, Texas.

You surely are referring to adding it as a fundamental belief for it was believed by many Adventists over 100 years earlier.

[John317]

As J.H Waggoner (SDA pioneer 1820-1889) wrote, "the doctrine of the Trinity is subversive of the Atonement".

Is J.H. Waggoner your authority for doctrine and faith?

What do you do when J.H. Waggoner disagrees with the Bible and with Ellen White?

What do you do when the father disagees with his son, E.J. Waggoner?

Can you show that Ellen White agreed with J.H. Waggoner's statement?

[John317]

You surely are referring to adding it as a fundamental belief for it was believed by many Adventists over 100 years earlier.

Yes, you're right, Windsor. In fact, as far back as 1913, F.M. Wilcox, the editor of the Review, wrote an article in which he said that the SDA Church believes in the Trinity.

[Woody]

People have all kinds of wild ideas about what we as a church believes. But if it ain't in the Fundamentals - we as a church do not believe it.