Woody Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 ? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Robert Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 One of the great challenges that faces the Christian Church today is how can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? Because no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one many sincere people, especially Islamic scholars, accuse Christianity of being an unethical religion. Their main argument is that the doctrine of substitution, as taught by Christianity, is based on a faulty Roman law which allowed an innocent man, Christ, to die in place of the guilty human race. Hence they accuse the Christians religion of “legal fiction.” It is true that even the law of God clearly prohibits an innocent man dying for the guilty — “the soul that sins, it must die” [Deuteronomy 24:16; Ezekiel 18:1-20 emphasis supplied]. What than is the Biblical solution to the problem of “legal fiction.” The answer is the in Christ motif or idea, the central theme of the apostle Paul’s theology. There is a key phrase that runs through Paul’s epistles. If you were to take this phrase out, there would be very little left of Paul’s exposition of the gospel. This recurring phrase is the expression in Christ or in Christ Jesus. This phrase is sometimes expressed by other similar phrases, such as, in Him, by Him, through Him, in the Beloved, together with Him, etc. These are all synonymous terms implying the in Christ motif. The truth behind this phrase was first introduced by Christ Himself, when He told His disciples to “abide in me.” These are the under girding words of the gospel. And if we don’t understand what the New Testament means by this expression in Christ, we will never be able to fully understand the incredible good news of the gospel. There is nothing we have as Christians except we have it in Christ. Everything we enjoy and hope for, as believers, i.e., the peace through justification by faith, the Holy Spirit power to live holy lives through the experience of sanctification, and the blessed hope of glorification, is ours always in Christ. Outside of Him we have nothing but sin, condemnation, and death. The expression in Christ, however, is a rather difficult phrase to understand. Just as “you must be born again” was mind-boggling to Nicodemus; so likewise, the concept of in Christ is a very difficult idea for us to understand. This is especially true of the western mind. How can I, as an individual, be in someone else? Worse still, how could I, born in the twentieth century, have been in Christ who lived almost 2000 years ago? This makes absolutely no sense to our western way of thinking. As a result we miss the full blessing that God has prepared for us in Christ. What does Scripture mean when it tells us that we were together with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and now, are sitting with Him in heavenly places [Ephesians 2:5,6]? Because we cannot fathom these facts we tend to ignore or skim over them. Yet the whole understanding of the gospel hinges on our understanding the significance of these two vital words in Christ. The in Christ motif or idea is based on the biblical idea of solidarity or corporate oneness. Therefore, if we are to come to grips with this phrase we must first understand what the Bible has to say about solidarity. Two New Testament texts help us understand Biblical solidarity. The first is Romans 9:12, a quotation taken from Genesis 25:23 — the twins, Esau and Jacob, represent two nations, not individuals. The second is Hebrews 7:7-l — Levi paid tithe to Melchizedek in Abraham, since he was “in the loins” of his great grandfather Abraham when he paid tithe to Melchizedek. Because the Bible teaches that the human race is the multiplication of Adam’s life the fundamental truth of Scripture is: God created all men in one man — i.e., in Adam [Acts 17:26]. Satan ruined all men in one man — i.e., in Adam [Romans 5:12, 18a]. God redeemed all men in one man — i.e., in Christ [Titus 2:11; 1 John 2:2]. In order to save fallen humanity, God had to first qualify Christ to be our substitute so that He could live and die in our place. God did this by uniting Christ’s divinity to our corporate humanity, that needed redeeming, in the incarnation. This is the in Christ motif [see 1 Corinthians 1:30]. Through this union Christ became the second or last Adam (the word adam in Hebrew has a collective significance and means mankind). As our substitute and representative Christ had to meet the full demands of the law in order to save fallen humanity. By His perfect obedience Christ met the positive demands of the law, and by His death He met the justice of the law. Thus, in this doing and dying He legally justified all men and became humanity’s Savior [Romans 5:18; Ephesians 2:5, 6]. Just as in Adam all die, likewise Scripture declares that in Christ all shall live [1 Corinthians 15:21, 22]. Because God created man with a free will, Christ’s identity with us has to be reciprocal to make the legal justification He obtained for all men effective individually. This is what justification by faith is all about. Faith is the channel or instrument by which the believer accepts his or her united with Christ and Him crucified (Galatians 2:19, 20). This two-sided union — You in Christ and Christ in you — is what constitutes true Christianity and man’s only hope of salvation: standing legally just before God’s holy law [Romans 10:4]. Quote
Gibs Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 Robert, A good expose indeed, it would be good to follow it up with a full read of Romans the 6'th chapter. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 16, 2012 Administrators Posted June 16, 2012 See my signature for the answer... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Gibs Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 For sure Tom, But you know, He expects us to do something man don't want to do. Man loves the "smooth" things of the gospel but not the do. Clean the Spiritual house no way. It is just mans perverted nature that he has been in so long. Man must come to the want to do stage. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Windsor Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 The good news is the truth about God's character. On that topic I recommend reading Herb Montgomery's book 'Finding the Father'. Quote Remember Adventists Online?
Moderators LynnDel Posted June 17, 2012 Moderators Posted June 17, 2012 Looking for your signature, Tom! LD Quote LD
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 17, 2012 Administrators Posted June 17, 2012 The signature area of the post is what appears below the line at the bottom... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
born_again1 Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 The gospel is the Good News that Jesus paid the penalty for my/our sins. John the Baptist said it very clearly, Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world. He was the fulfillment of all the OT sacrificial system. Jesus' righteousness is accounted to me. I just love the song from "The Messiah", Worthy Is The Lamb. Quote
Woody Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 The gospel is the Good News that Jesus paid the penalty for my/our sins. John the Baptist said it very clearly, Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world. He was the fulfillment of all the OT sacrificial system. Jesus' righteousness is accounted to me. I just love the song from "The Messiah", Worthy Is The Lamb. I like that. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted June 17, 2012 Members Posted June 17, 2012 The gospel is the Good News that Jesus paid the penalty for my/our sins. John the Baptist said it very clearly, Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world. He was the fulfillment of all the OT sacrificial system. Jesus' righteousness is accounted to me. I just love the song from "The Messiah", Worthy Is The Lamb. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators LynnDel Posted June 17, 2012 Moderators Posted June 17, 2012 I was befuddled and confused, seeing no signature, and then I remembered - I disabled that function! Quote LD
Woody Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 I was befuddled and confused, seeing no signature, and then I remembered - I disabled that function! You are certainly disabled then. For not being able to see all of me thingy me jibs - is certainly a disadvantage. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Windsor Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 The good news isn't something selfish like I get my sins forgiven or I get eternal life. Those are just "symptoms" of the real good news about God's true character. Remember that one advantage Adventists have over all other denominations is we can view everything in light of the Great Controversy. Everything makes sense in that light. Satan has made a lot of false accusations against God, accusations that a third of the angels and most human beings have bought hook line and sinker. Some of these accusations are that God is cruel, arbitrary, severe and unforgiving. Per Ellen White, up until the cross, the unfallen beings still held some sympathy toward Satan. The crucifixtion finally removed the last vestiges of sympathy and the events of Revelation 12:7-8 followed. With the death of Christ, those false accusations were finally seen for what they were: 100% false. God's character IS perfect. He is fit to rule the universe for all eternity. God is not cruel. God is love. Nothing He does is arbitrary but rather in line with His perfect plan. He isn't severe but rather chastens those whom He loves. He is a forgiving God. He is my God and I hope He is your God. Quote Remember Adventists Online?
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 17, 2012 Administrators Posted June 17, 2012 Well, that 'splains it! Glad it's not a permanent disability... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Woody Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 Well, that 'splains it! Glad it's not a permanent disability... Yes. I think there's hope for LynnDel. FOr if she wants to overcome her disability - there are means. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators LynnDel Posted June 17, 2012 Moderators Posted June 17, 2012 Disibility or no (I'm rather attached to mine), as far as the Gospel goes, I see that the Lord's Prayer - the one in John 17, not the prayer we commonly call by that name, which should be called the Disciples' Prayer - the Lord's Prayer in John 17 explains the essence of the Gospel, the Good News Jesus had in mind for us. LD Quote LD
Woody Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 thanks LynnDel. Interesting thought. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Gerr Posted June 17, 2012 Moderators Posted June 17, 2012 Could there be better explanations for the Good News than these? 1. ‎ESV ‎‎Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. ‎‎17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. ‎‎18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 2. ‎ESV ‎‎Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, ‎‎9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 3. ‎ESV ‎‎Ga 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. 4. ‎ESV ‎‎Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, ‎‎22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, ‎‎23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister. 5. ‎ESV ‎‎Ge 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. 6. ‎ESV ‎‎Ro 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. ‎‎20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. ‎‎21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— ‎‎22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: ‎‎23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ‎‎24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, ‎‎25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. Quote
Moderators LynnDel Posted June 17, 2012 Moderators Posted June 17, 2012 We always talk of the Gospel, but we neglect the whole phrase - "this Gospel of the kingdom." OF THE KINGDOM. We need to understand what the Gospel Of The Kingdom is about - before we can share it. John 17 has it. LD Quote LD
troyjs Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 The Gospel is the Good News, that Christ has turned away the wrath of God, and taken upon Himself the punishment for all the sins of those who trust in Him. If you believe that what Jesus did in His life and death is sufficient to save you, then you will the benefits of eternal blessedness and joy. In a sentence: Christ alone can save me, and has saved me. Quote “Knowledge of the sciences is so much smoke apart from the heavenly science of Christ”---John Calvin
Woody Posted June 18, 2012 Author Posted June 18, 2012 The Gospel is the Good News, that Christ has turned away the wrath of God, and taken upon Himself the punishment for all the sins of those who trust in Him. If you believe that what Jesus did in His life and death is sufficient to save you, then you will the benefits of eternal blessedness and joy. In a sentence: Christ alone can save me, and has saved me. Can a 10 year old understand this? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
troyjs Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Yes, a 10 year old can understand that: he/she is a sinner he/she deserves to be punished Jesus took away his/her punishment In a sentence: Christ alone can save me, and Christ has saved me. ThoroughlyFurnished.blogspot.com Quote “Knowledge of the sciences is so much smoke apart from the heavenly science of Christ”---John Calvin
Administrators Naomi Posted June 18, 2012 Administrators Posted June 18, 2012 Originally Posted By: troyjs The Gospel is the Good News, that Christ has turned away the wrath of God, and taken upon Himself the punishment for all the sins of those who trust in Him. If you believe that what Jesus did in His life and death is sufficient to save you, then you will the benefits of eternal blessedness and joy. In a sentence: Christ alone can save me, and has saved me. Can a 10 year old understand this? Some 10 year olds can understand, and some can not. Some adults can understand, and some can not. There is not a one size fits all answer. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
skyblue888 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 There is only one Gospel invitation. Day by day, we are invited to lay right hold upon the MERITS of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour (merits which He is pleading before the Father in our behalf) that we may be surcharged with the Holy Spirit's sufficiency to escape the corruption that is in the world through lust and thus reflect Christ's character until the full corn is in the ear. (Rom.3:25; Mark 4:26-29; Eph.5:18) "God's people cannot please Him unless they are surcharged with the Holy Spirit's sufficiency." 1 S.M.113. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
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