The End of the World is coming in 2060

[phkrause]

Quote:

It is far closer than that.

Yeah. I've been hearin' that all my life.

I do agree Woody, but all I know is everyday it gets closer. :)

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

"Corrupt Trinitarian Church"?

Seems old Isaac knew a thing or two about ecumenism.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

I'm not afraid, are you?

[JoeMo]

See 1 John 4:18

The Bible uses the phrase "fear not" 75 times. Jesus Himself told us to "fear not at least five times including in that "scary" Book of Revelation (see 1:17). I believe that command applies to His fold for the end times, as well. The "type" is the Hebrews before the Exodus. God protected them from the most devastating of the plagues and on the journey to the promised land; and I believe He will protect us from the worst of the anti-type (End Time Plagues and on our Journey to the Promised Land).

Concerning the worst of the end-time plagues (7 bowls of God's wrath, note what John has told us in Rev. 16:1-2:

"1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out ON THE PEOPLE WHO HAD THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND WORSHIPPED HIS IMAGE."

I don't see any mention of the church there. From the context of the rest of Rev. 16, I personally don't believe these plagues pertain to the people of God.

I will trust His goodness and respect His command to "not fear"; and - by His grace -I will not fear.

[Gibs]

Gibs,

I'm not afraid, are you?

No Joe I am not afraid. There is no fear in those who are under His Wings. He not only is that impervious covering for His beloved overcomers but is their strength and stay from sin and all evil. He is a faithful Shepherd that is well able to keep anything from coming on them but what is for their good. Each one is a precious Jewel, one of His precious Lambs who follow only Him the TRUE SHEPHERD.

He alone is "OUR HOPE OF GLORY!"

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Reading the signs of the times is a work best done by those who have long observed and heeded His Word what would be in the last days. There is much now that show we have come to the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Gibs - The signs mean nothing. The Last Days have come. They have been here for thousands of years. All the signs that Jesus gave have been fulfilled.

We are now in the time of delay. God has delayed and delayed and delayed and will continue to delay as long as people are as evil as they are in these the last days.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

I'm glad your not afraid. I also like what you said after that; although I think I understand it differently than you do. I also am an overcomer - by the blood of the lamb. Because of Jesus, the Father sees me as perfect since I am covered with His robe of righteousness washed in the blood of the Lamb - not because of my works (or lack thereof). The idea that I am part of a royal priesthood makes me want to represent His Character and overcome any sin in my life. But overcoming is a goal, a privilege, and a benefit that comes with being a member of the family - not a prerequisite for sonship. The imperfections of my flesh won't get me "kicked out of the family". My Daddy and my big Brother love me unconditionally! They won't disown me as long as I don't disown them. I ,like Paul:

"...am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Rom. 8:38-39)

If you are sufficiently open-minded, read something besides EGW - like "Destined to Reign" by Joseph Prince or "When Heaven Invades Earth" by Bill Johnson. Get online and watch the movie "Finger of God".

Woody - Double AMEN!! If I was smart enough to put a picture of fireworks on the post, I would. The only thing remaining is for us to get off of our butts and take the gospel to the streets - even if our "streets" are only our home, workplace, and/or our neighborhood. Beating people over the head with scripture and EGW isn't the answer - loving people and mending brokenness through the power of the Holy Spirit is. The grace and power of Jesus isn't just for church.

Be blessed and Happy Sabbath!

This thread comes along at a great time for me - I have to teach a Sabbath School lesson next month on "why we should not fear the last days". (That's what I get for opening my big mouth!) If anyone has any ideas beyond what I have posted above, please let me know. I don't think I can stretch what I posted into a 60-minute lesson. (PLEASE - no" be sinless or be afraid" stuff ... it defeats my thesis.)

[Woody]

Quote:

Woody - Double AMEN!! If I was smart enough to put a picture of fireworks on the post, I would.

Cool.

And as far as what can help you in your SS class - I could dig up a good sermon by Pastor Tom Hughes (Bible Biker).

The sermon is titled "Saved IN our sins" and it helps people understand why we have nothing to fear - for we are saved by God's Grace and not our works.

http://www.biblebiker.com/

[Woody]

Oh - Let me just post it here:

As an Adventist I have often heard ministers say we are “Saved FROM our sins, not IN our sins”. This has often inspired more confusion and needless guilt than it has motivated people to live a more sanctified life. Those who say this often are perfectionists who believe they can reach a state of sinless perfection before Jesus comes through character development. If they mean our sins are “taken away” in the sense that Jesus died for them, and through justification we no longer have “our sins”, then I say AMEN! If they are saying we should not cherish sin and practice iniquity I say Amen. However if they mean God removes all sinning from sinners before the Second Coming, I have to object to this distortion. The Bible teaches that we have sin, and that we are sinful until Jesus comes. All have sinned, there is none good but God and Paul had not yet arrived when he died. Paul said that nothing good dwelled in him and that he was a wretched sinner. (“Oh wretched man that I AM” not was[ii]) If the Bible admonishes us not to say we have no sin,[iii] then we must therefore be saved in sin. Romans 5: 8 reads: “But God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

This ground has already been taken and staked out in the 27 Fundamentals of our faith, “People can never claim that perfection independently…Apart from Christ human beings cannot obtain righteousness” “Some incorrectly believe the ultimate perfection that glorification will bring is already available to humans…Perfection now is ours only in Christ, but the ultimate, all comprehensive transformation of our lives into the image of God will take place at the Second Advent” “Neither Christlike character traits nor faultless behavior is the ground of our acceptance with God. Saving righteousness comes from one righteous Man, Jesus, and is conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit. We can contribute nothing to Christ’s gift of righteousness; we can only receive it. No one other than Christ is righteous (Rom. 3:10); independent human righteousness is only filthy rags. (Isa. 64:6; see also Dan 9:7, 11, 20; 1 Cor. 1: 30)[iv] As Paul and our church has stated, we ARE great sinners, but Jesus is a great Savior!

Ellen White writes that the noblest and gentlest among men are but a faint reflection of Christ’s character[v], and that only the perfect flawless character of Christ is sufficient to merit salvation. She also writes categorically that “No one is perfect but Jesus”. [vi] So for ministers to suggest we have to equal Christ’s accomplishments by producing a flawless character before Jesus steps out of the sanctuary is totally false.

Let’s review some of the statements that make is clear we are still sinners, with a sinful nature, in need of forgiveness and grace.

“The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary, but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor, who is at God's right hand, presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God. SM, 1:344, 345.

Those whose hearts have been moved by the convicting Spirit of God see that there is nothing good in themselves. They see that all they have ever done is mingled with self and sin. Like the poor publican, they stand afar off, not daring to lift up so much as their eyes to heaven, and cry, "God, be merciful to me the sinner." Luke 18:13, R.V., margin. And they are blessed. {MB 7, 8}

Jesus loves to have us come to Him, just as we are--sinful, helpless, dependent. We can do nothing, absolutely nothing, to commend ourselves to divine favor. We must not trust at all to ourselves or to our good works; but when as erring, sinful beings we come to Christ, we may find rest in His love. FW 38

Neither Joseph, Daniel, nor any of the apostles claimed to be without sin. Men who have … acknowledged themselves to be sinners, unworthy of His great favors. They have felt their weakness and, sorrowful for their sins, have tried to copy the pattern Jesus Christ. {FW 43}

The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. SC 64

The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ. … A view of our sinfulness drives us to Him who can pardon; and when the soul, realizing its helplessness, reaches out after Christ, He will reveal Himself in power.” SC 64, 65

Men whom God has honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their nature. They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ. AA 561

Apart from Christ we have no merit, no righteousness. Our sinfulness, our weakness, our human imperfection make it impossible that we should appear before God unless we are clothed in Christ's spotless righteousness.” God’s Amazing Grace p.183

God declares, "There is none righteous, no, not one" (Rom 3:10). All have the same sinful nature. All are liable to make mistakes. No one is perfect. The Lord Jesus died for the erring that they might be forgiven. It is not our work to condemn. Christ did not come to condemn, but to save.” In Heavenly Places p. 292

From these statements we can see that Ellen White agreed with the Apostle Paul in acknowledging that we have a sinful nature and that we must never consider ourselves to have arrived at a point of sinlessness. She makes it crystal clear in this statement: “So long as Satan reigns, we shall have self to subdue, besetting sins to overcome; so long as life shall last, there will be no stopping place, no point which we can reach and say, I have fully attained. Sanctification is the result of lifelong obedience.” AA 560

So until Jesus comes, we will need God’s saving grace while we are “IN” sin and while he is helping us to separate from our sinfulness through the process of sanctification. Until we receive our new nature, we must consider ourselves sinners, being saved by grace, and transformed into his image. That total transformation will come, but not as long as Satan reigns and we have self to subdue! Some paint a picture of sinners removing sin from their experience until they reach a perfection and sinlessness equal to Christ’s character in this life and of removing sin to the point of not sinning anymore. However, Ellen White paints a picture of the believer’s experience that is entirely different from this. She paints a picture of believers who find that the closer they get to Jesus, the more they see their own faults and imperfection and actually seem to get worse![vii] But according to the false teachers, you will see your perfection grow until you reach total Christlikeness when Jesus steps out of the Sanctuary. This is nothing short of blasphemy. Ellen White puts clarifies the point this way:

“I ask, How can I present this matter as it is? The Lord Jesus imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins, in presenting His righteousness for man to grasp by living faith--which is also the gift of God. If you would gather together everything that is good and holy and noble and lovely in man and then present the subject to the angels of God as acting a part in the salvation of the human soul or in merit, the proposition would be rejected as treason. {FW 24.1}

I’m happy Jesus is able to save us in, and forever from sin in all its forms! Christ is able to subdue all things unto himself! Let us proclaim with the angels in the very throne room of God; Praise to You, oh Lamb of God because “You alone are worthy”! Rev. 15: 4

1 JN 1: 8; LK 18: 19; Isaiah 64: 6; Rom. 3: 0-12; 20-23; PS 14; Philippians 3: 3, 8-9

[ii] Romans 7: 18, 24

[iii] 1 John 1: 8

[iv] 27 Fundamentals of the Faith pp. 127-131

[v] MB 49

[vi] TIMKH 136

[vii] SC 64, 65

[olger]

"Why continue any longer in sin - what has it ever done for you?" (John Wesley).

[Gibs]

Woody if you look around seriously you will see any delay you might have perceived is over. The time is at hand.

And since you bring this up in this thread I just could not resist posting this little quote from the pen of inspiration.

"Do not excuse yourself in any error. If you have one objectionable trait which you find it difficult to subdue, do not talk of your weakness that others must bear with. Do not soothe your conscience with the thought that you cannot overcome the peculiarities that deform your character, nor listen to Satan's suggestion that they are not very grievous. There is no way by which you can be saved in sin. Every soul that gains eternal life must be like Christ, "holy, blameless, undefiled, separate from sinners." The followers of Christ must shine as lights in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation." {RH, June 3, 1884 par. 10}

Well I find her statement is a true one indeed.

May you be blessed with His Indwelling Power to overcome!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

I think Pastor Hughes has it right on with that subject Og.

[Woody]

Quote:

May you be blessed with His Indwelling Power to overcome!

No thanks Gibs. Appreciate the thought - but I have no desire to make that the focus of my life.

HE overcame FOR me and you Gibs. I wish that you may some day find that peace.

[Gibs]

Well Woody He overcame to show us it could be done as one of us taking no power but what is freely ours to have to do exactly His example. That is the plan of salvation, to enable us who have all fallen that we might be saved by His might and our feeble but needed input to change the heart and spirit to be dead to sinning.

I refer you to Paul's 6'th chapter of Romans verses 1 through 7, very short but to the point truth of this matter.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

That's not the Truth of scripture. It might be your theory - but certainly not the plan of salvation.

[JoeMo]

Hey Woody,

You are so darn awesome! You and Tom Hughes REALLY get it! That sermon you sent me is just what I need! Thank you SO MUCH! If you are ever in the Denver area, I would love to get together.

Be blessed!

JoeMo

[Woody]

You can't beat Present Truth for our age presented by good old fashioned Adventist Ministers.

And JoeMo - I would love to make that happen. I've really enjoyed meeting other Club A members in real life.

[Windsor]

Quote:

Reading the signs of the times is a work best done by those who have long observed and heeded His Word what would be in the last days. There is much now that show we have come to the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Gibs - The signs mean nothing. The Last Days have come. They have been here for thousands of years. All the signs that Jesus gave have been fulfilled.

We are now in the time of delay. God has delayed and delayed and delayed and will continue to delay as long as people are as evil as they are in these the last days.

Umm, it says the gospel will be preached in all the world. It did not say the gospel would be accepted by everyone it was preached to. If you're waiting for the world to become a better place before God comes, you will be waiting an eternity. As in the days of Noah, so shall it be, not in the days of pre-fall Adam.

[Woody]

Quote:

Umm, it says the gospel will be preached in all the world. It did not say the gospel would be accepted by everyone it was preached to. If you're waiting for the world to become a better place before God comes, you will be waiting an eternity. As in the days of Noah, so shall it be, not in the days of pre-fall Adam.

Good thoughts there.

[Gibs]

That's not the Truth of scripture. It might be your theory - but certainly not the plan of salvation.

Ah, but Woody it is the truth of scripture, I didn't post them as I thought you knew them by the verse numbers, so here I will paste them so you and all may see and read,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

He that is dead to sinning is freed from it. That is Great!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Hey Gibs,

I admire your sincerity. I hope things work out for you.

hey Woody,

The invitation stands. If you are ever in Denver, look me up. I don't have much of a house, but you have place to stay.

If you like "biker sermons, go to http://www.machinegunpreacher.org/.

Be Blessed,

Joe Mo

[Woody]

Quote:

If you like "biker sermons, go to http://www.machinegunpreacher.org/.

[Woody]

Quote:

Hey Gibs,

I admire your sincerity. I hope things work out for you.

Yes Gibs. If it works for you then I have no problem with it. I just worry for you though.

[Gibs]

Woody, JoeMoe, there is a guiding voice that we can know the way, His Word to us,

Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

On each side of the way is a ditch and if we don't hear His word behind us guiding us we go into the ditch of legalism or the other one into liberalism.

We of ourselves can't see and so we must not lend a deaf ear to His guiding. It's like "gee" hoss or "haw" hoss. Gee is veer right, and Haw is veer left. Ain't you glad He don't put a bit in your mouth and angrily jerk you left or right to keep you in the way?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

See 1 John 4:18

The Bible uses the phrase "fear not" 75 times. Jesus Himself told us to "fear not at least five times including in that "scary" Book of Revelation (see 1:17). I believe that command applies to His fold for the end times, as well. The "type" is the Hebrews before the Exodus. God protected them from the most devastating of the plagues and on the journey to the promised land; and I believe He will protect us from the worst of the anti-type (End Time Plagues and on our Journey to the Promised Land).

Concerning the worst of the end-time plagues (7 bowls of God's wrath, note what John has told us in Rev. 16:1-2:

"1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out ON THE PEOPLE WHO HAD THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND WORSHIPPED HIS IMAGE."

I don't see any mention of the church there. From the context of the rest of Rev. 16, I personally don't believe these plagues pertain to the people of God.

I will trust His goodness and respect His command to "not fear"; and - by His grace -I will not fear.