Did Ellen White perform the duties of a Pastor?

[Woody]

Below we see that contrary to the cry from the conservatives – Ellen White DID indeed take the role of pastor in her work:

“In fulfilling their rather general pastoral duties, James and Ellen white were at the newly established church at Wright, MIchigan, for meetings Sabbath, Aplril 30 and Sunday May 1; they stayed over until Monday, May 2.” page 403 of THE EARLY YEARS.

Also – we have the example of Ellen taking a leadership role in leading out with foot washing:

“We met together again to break bread and wash the saints' feet. It had never been practiced by them, but husband set the example to the men and I to the sisters, then all heartily engaged in it.” MS 6, 1859

[Woody]

So these two tell us:

1) EGW with her husband filled a general pastoral role.

2) EGW With her husband filled the role of developing a newly established congregation.

3) EGW took a leadership role in providing the sacrament of Communion to a congregation.

[Woody]

IN 1898 Ellen White DECLARED that "there are women who should labor in the gospel ministry" (Ev 472)

[Q.E.D.]

Ellen White also had children and visions.

[Woody]

"You need to educate, educate, educate." {SpM 199.3}

I find this SO true.

[Woody]

"For years I have been instructed that there is danger, constant danger, that our brethren will look to their fellow men for permission to do this or that, instead of looking to God. Thus they become weaklings, and permit themselves to be bound with man-made restrictions disapproved by God. The Lord can impress minds and consciences to do His work under bonds to Him, and in a spirit of fraternity that is in accordance with the principles of His law. . . . (8T 232)

[Woody]

"You need to educate, educate, educate." {SpM 199.3}

[Woody]

"It has been no infrequent thing for men in ecclesiastical authority to take exception to the ministry of those who have not been commissioned by themselves. Men with some power in their hands may easily fancy that only they can instruct others how to perform publically" 6BC 164

[Kevin H]

The church had quite a few women pastors in the 1800s and early 1900s. John Loughborough would ordain women and was a strong supporter for women pastors to become fully ordained ministers. New York decided to ordain a woman pastor. The New York Conference President and the Atlantic Union President approved her ordination. Elder A. G. Daniels was out visiting at the time. He agreed that this woman should have been ordained but cautioned that he felt that there were too many in the layity that would be upset if we ordained a woman pastor and he suggested that they wait until the layity was educated so that they would accept ordained women pastors. Mrs. White soon thereafter gave counsel on increasing the role of women in leadership (guidance that was never implemted). Sadly, too many today want to reject Daniel's advice and keep the church in ignorance that he felt they needed to grow out of.

[Woody]

Good post Kevin. ANd to this day there are those that are crying for people to be better educated on the issue. After over a hundred years of education - you would think it enough.

Delay Delay Delay.

[Woody]

Lulu Wightman raised up 17 churches. Licensed to preach in 1898. Considered one of the denomination's most successful evangelists.

[Kevin H]

The point is that the General Coference 100 years ago believed that women should be ordained but feared that too many of the lay members would not accept it and needed to be educated first. However the guidelines that Mrs. White proposed for this education was never implemented (at least not on a large scale; things like hiring men and women as ministerial teams with both the men and women getting paid etc. Apperently Mrs. White started paying some of her tithe to women in ministry and to try to get this going) but it never took off, we lost sight of it until other churches started to do this and now people are saying that we are trying to just be like the other churches and that is wrong.

We did not have 100 years of education. We were told 100 years ago that we needed to get this education but we never did and today people want us to continue in ignorance.

[Gerr]

Did she baptize anyone? Did she pastor any church? Did she perform any wedding ceremony?

[doug yowell]

. However the guidelines that Mrs. White proposed for this education was never implemented (at least not on a large scale; things like hiring men and women as ministerial teams with both the men and women getting paid etc.

Hiring men and women as ministerial teams is a completely different color of horse then the present goal of ordination and ministry, isn't it? Hiring women, whether single or married, to act as head pastors of any or every congregation was not exactly a part of her agenda, was it? Neither was her support of the ordaining of women to the gospel "ministry" her way of doing her part to do away with the "curse" of Gen.3.

[doug yowell]

Did she baptize anyone? Did she pastor any church? Did she perform any wedding ceremony?

Good questions. Was she the spiritual leader of her own home?

[doug yowell]

Apperently Mrs. White started paying some of her tithe to women in ministry and to try to get this going) but it never took off, we lost sight of it until other churches started to do this and now people are saying that we are trying to just be like the other churches and that is wrong.

Don't you think that's a little disingenuous? What other churches have instituted the equal support of a husband and wife pastoral team? SDA's have always paid their women for their ministry.I had a Bible teacher at La Sierra in the 60's (that would be the 1960's not the 1860's)that was a paid ministry. The issue is one of the head pastoral role based upon the Biblical model of the home.EGW's issue was pay not role.This (role)is the path that those "other churches" have pioneered that is being evaluated. The So. Baptists, the Evangelicals, the RCC, all still refuse to model their leadership after the Episcopal, United Methodist,ect...Who's growing and who's not?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Did she baptize anyone? Did she pastor any church? Did she perform any wedding ceremony?

Good questions. Was she the spiritual leader of her own home?

Well - she told her husband to back off when she felt the need:

"I feel sorry for you and feel deep sympathy for you in your

affliction. I mean to help you what I can, but don't let the enemy make you think only of my deficiencies which are, you think, so apparent, for in trying to fix me over, you may destroy my usefulness, my freedom, and bring me into a position of restraint, or embarrassment, that will unfit me for the work of God." {2BIO 431.3}

[Woody]

Did she baptize anyone? Did she pastor any church? Did she perform any wedding ceremony?

Good question. But neither of these are unique roles of a pastor.

Justices of the peace perform weddings.

Anyone can baptize for their is not sriptural mandate that it has to be an ordained pastor.

Currently in our church - non-ordained people perform both of these tasks.

[Woody]

Did she baptize anyone? Did she pastor any church? Did she perform any wedding ceremony?

[phkrause]

So these two tell us:

1) EGW with her husband filled a general pastoral role.

2) EGW With her husband filled the role of developing a newly established congregation.

3) EGW took a leadership role in providing the sacrament of Communion to a congregation.

The only thing that the opening post shows me Woody, is maybe all those sunday keeping churches might just be right, that when Paul had those meetings on Sunday he really was conducting church service!

[Woody]

well pk - you lost me there :)

[teresaq]

Did she baptize anyone? Did she pastor any church? Did she perform any wedding ceremony?

Did Jesus?

And Ellen White pastored the whole church.

I guess I'm not understanding why that has any relevancy to anything, for one thing...and why anyone should get more money because they baptize and marry others.

[teresaq]

Hiring women, whether single or married, to act as head pastors... Neither was her support of the ordaining of women to the gospel "ministry" her way of doing her part to do away with the "curse" of Gen.3.

Where do you get "head" pastors?

What scriptural evidence do you have for your statement re Gen 3?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Well - she told her husband to back off when she felt the need:

"I feel sorry for you and feel deep sympathy for you in your

affliction. I mean to help you what I can, but don't let the enemy make you think only of my deficiencies which are, you think, so apparent, for in trying to fix me over, you may destroy my usefulness, my freedom, and bring me into a position of restraint, or embarrassment, that will unfit me for the work of God." {2BIO 431.3}

Even more interesting is 2 paragraphs later:

Originally Posted By: EllenWhite

We women must remember that God has placed us subject to the husband. He is the head and our judgment and views and reasonings must agree with his if possible. If not, the preference in God’s Word is given to the husband where it is not a matter of conscience. We must yield to the head.—Letter 5, 1861. {2BIO 431.5}

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Did she baptize anyone? Did she pastor any church? Did she perform any wedding ceremony?

Did Jesus?

And Ellen White pastored the whole church.

I guess I'm not understanding why that has any relevancy to anything, for one thing...and why anyone should get more money because they baptize and marry others.