Salvation completed at the cross not the grave.

[Woody]

Finally, redemption, or re-creation week, ends the same as creation week, with the Sabbath. When Jesus had completed the plan of salvation, for the first time since his birth, he entered into a Sabbath rest, just as reported in Genesis 2:1-3. This all means that our salvation was bought and wrought on the cross, not in the grave. When Jesus had “finished” his works of salvation for the restoration of humanity on the sixth day, just as he did after creation of humans on the sixth day, he rested (Heb. 4:10).

Hyveth Williams

http://www.spectrummagazine.org/node/648

[Gerr]

Finally, redemption, or re-creation week, ends the same as creation week, with the Sabbath. When Jesus had completed the plan of salvation, for the first time since his birth, he entered into a Sabbath rest, just as reported in Genesis 2:1-3. This all means that our salvation was bought and wrought on the cross, not in the grave. When Jesus had “finished” his works of salvation for the restoration of humanity on the sixth day, just as he did after creation of humans on the sixth day, he rested (Heb. 4:10).

Hyveth Williams

http://www.spectrummagazine.org/node/648

Sorry, the quote is totally false, imho. If the plan of salvation had been completed, we wouldin't be here still dealing with misery and pain. The plan of salvation will not be complete until paradise lost has been restored.

[Stan]

the atonement never ever took place at the time of the sacrifice.

[Naomi]

[Gordon1]

Hyveth Williams, a leading light of the SDA Women's Ordination movement.

[doug yowell]

Sorry, the quote is totally false, imho. If the plan of salvation had been completed, we wouldin't be here still dealing with misery and pain. The plan of salvation will not be complete until paradise lost has been restored.

I'm not ready just yet to throw HW under the bus. Sounds to me like she's trying to say something that has not yet been clarified in her mind. Her whole point seems confused and unclear. She obviously knows (even Des Ford knows it) that Christ's work for our redemption was to continue in heaven after His resurrection so why would she word things this way? This has been one of my complaints about her "ministry", lots of theological and ideological terms thrown out with a resulting response from her listeners of "Impressive...what did she say?"

[doug yowell]

the atonement never ever took place at the time of the sacrifice.

Exacto mundo.

[doug yowell]

Hyveth Williams, a leading light of the SDA Women's Ordination movement.

...and called by the Holy Spirit to teach theology to our seminary students.

[Gordon1]

Grooming for Dean of Theology?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gordon1

Hyveth Williams, a leading light of the SDA Women's Ordination movement.

...and called by the Holy Spirit to teach theology to our seminary students.

Doug, your sarcasm slip is showing again.

[Gerr]

Grooming for Dean of Theology?

Then we're more in trouble than I thought.

[olger]

Dittos

[Guest]

Doug, your sarcasm slip is showing again.

That was no slip, he did it on purpose..

[skyblue888]

on purpose with no malice whatsoever...

[Gibs]

It will be completed when a great voice out of the temple in heaven says, "it is done".

Re 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Who do you suppose is on that Throne?

His Jewels will be made up!

Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CoAspen]

The comments about Hyveth W are out of place and demeaning of her position and abilities. Does some here doubt the calling by the H*S? Has any one bothered to ask her for clarification or just wanting to put her down?

[doug yowell]

The comments about Hyveth W are out of place and demeaning of her position and abilities. Does some here doubt the calling by the H*S?

[doug yowell]

Doug, your sarcasm slip is showing again.

Oops.but it wasn't directly meant to be mere sarcasm. If one cannot clearly demonstrate their HS calling then their calling to teach theology is suspect.I'm not saying she meant wrong it's just that given the initial response we're not sure what she intended.Your immediate response was one of clarity to an otherwise possible misleading statement. Attempting to be a metaphorically analytical master of the Scriptures is not always conducive to learning.I'd think the same about a conservative who spoke this way. What makes it more interesting is the fact that this was a presentation for Spectrum hardly known for it's unwavering support for the traditional SDA view of salvation.

[Robert]

Heb 10:0 "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will (by Christ' doing and dying) we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Rom 5:10 "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

[Gibs]

Robert,

That is a fine statement as long as it is taken not to mean saved in sin.

When the last case of man finally comes which isn't far off then salvation will be completed for all who will come to do His will.

We must get away from believing any will reach Glory Land unless we have become overcomers with His empowerment which is free for all and sets us free from succumbing to Satan.

The Proof!

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Makes it absolutely clear that he that don't overcome will die the second death in the SECOND resurrection!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Rom 5:10 "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

Notice how it says "by whom we have NOW received the atonement." The "now" is not referring to Christ's death upon the cross but to the atonement that Christ was making in the first apartment of the sanctuary above for He had already ascended up on High to make atonement for transgressions, in the first apartment first (daily atonement) and then He began the final atonement in the second apartment when He entered it on Oct.22,1844.

On the cross the condition for the atonement was complete. After His resurrection Christ ascended up on High but before He began making atonement He waited for the Father's acceptance of the sacrifice. We are told that the Father bowed in acceptance of that sacrifice and then Christ began His priestly ministry, making atonement by pleading the merits of His shed blood before the Father in behalf of all but especially in behalf of those who believe.

In the type no atonement was made until the blood of the victim was transfered to the first apartment and sprinkled.

This was to teach us that Jesus would not begin the atonement until after He entered the first apartment of the sanctuary above by pleading the merits of His shed blood before the Father in our behalf.

sky

[skyblue888]

"Christ's sacrifice in behalf of man was full and complete. The condition of the atonement had been fulfilled." A.A.39.

It was the sacrifice that was full and complete, not the atonement, for the atonement did not begin until after Jesus ascended up on High:

"The intercession of Christ in our behalf is that of presenting His divine merits in the offering of Himself to the Father as our substitute and surety, for He ascended up on High to make atonement for our transgressions." Faith & Works,105.

sky

[Guest]

Does some here doubt the calling by the H*S?

Absolutely! And "doubt" is too mild of a word.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

[Samie]

...

In the type no atonement was made until the blood of the victim was transfered to the first apartment and sprinkled.

This was to teach us that Jesus would not begin the atonement until after He entered the first apartment of the sanctuary above by pleading the merits of His shed blood before the Father in our behalf.

sky

[skyblue888]

Samie, are the writings of Mrs. White inspired to you or not?

You just quoted statements from her writings to contradict the ones I just quoted, thus pitting the ones against the others thus giving the impression that her writings are full of contradictions. But the contradiction is only seemingly.

These words, "... One who through the sacrifice of His own life was to make atonement for sin once for all..."

On the surface, it appears that here she is saying that the atonement was made on the cross once and for all. Why then would she say that He ascended up on High to make atonement for our transgressions, and why would she teach that on Oct.22,1844 He entered the Most Holy to begin the final atonement?

Yes, the sacrificial atonement on the cross was full and complete but that was not the atonement itself but the condition for the atonement. In order words through that sacrifice which was full and complete Jesus fulfilled the condition for Him to be able to make atonement having entered the first apartment of the sanctuary above. Otherwise, if she meant that the atonement was made on the cross once and for all there would be need to make atonement in the first apartment of the sanctuary above let alone a final atonement beginning in 1844.

And we also know that the Lord showed her that brother Crozier had the true light as to whether atonement was made on the cross or not. In the article which he published in the Day Star, Extra, February 7,1846, Crozier made it absolutely clear that the atonement itself did not take place on Calvary. Mrs. White stated that she felt fully authorized by the Lord to recommend this article to every saint.

Have you ever read it?

sky