If Jesus is my Substitute -

[Gibs]

The way of knowing if we yet have not let loose completely of the old master of self and Satan and worldly things is are we continuing in sin? If so get serious and surrender all and withold not one little scrap of the old.

When Christ is Truly the Master in us we become victorious as He is solidly able to keep you faultless. Yes and then rest assured Jesus is then our substitute.

We have become a lamb in His Pasture and He holds onto and keeps and protects His own from all attacks of the enemies. He is our stength and stay and impervious covering which all the saints are beginning to need desperately, many will be martyred for their witness but they can only kill this poor old body we dwell in, in this last conflict.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

When Christ is Truly the Master in us we become victorious as He is solidly able to keep you faultless. Yes and then rest assured Jesus is then our substitute.

Okay, so if I'm faultless then I don't need Christ's righteousness.

What you are teaching is that in order to be saved I must keep the law. In other words the imparted righteousness of Christ is what saves me, not the imputed righteousness.

That which God required of Adam in paradise before the fall, He requires in this age of the world from those who would follow Him,-- perfect obedience to His law. But righteousness without blemish can be obtained only through the imputed righteousness of Christ. Through the provision that God has made for the forgiveness and restoration of sinners, the same requirements may be fulfilled by men to-day that were given to Adam in Eden. RH SEP.3,1901

[Gibs]

Robert,

My righteousness is His but I cooperated and He made it in me. You bet you need Christ'a righeousness. He by His indwelling and our full surrender He can do all things for us as His power is ours to do as He would do in our stead. Now I can't refuse to do righteousness, it has become my thing to do and He enables me all the way and He will anyone the same.

Yes and Adam did not go on continuing in sin no way, he will be in the kingdom and if he were here today he would preach you the same as I have done. Yes Adam fell in sin but he was restored and walked aright.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Gibs...can you stand before God's law and say I am blameless? or I am Holy as God is Holy?

Let me give you what the spirit of the law requires:

Matt 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

What did Jesus say? If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. Hence Christ's life answers the law. Was there any self-interest and self-seeking in His life? No, He lived not for Himself.

“The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.”

Christ life was one of unending agape love. Not even for a moment did Christ think of Himself. He lived to serve, not just His friends, but His enemies.

Those who follow him must share his poverty. “If any man will come after me,” he declares, “let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” “So shall ye be my disciples.” [RH 7-4-1912]

[Gibs]

Robert,

We can be perfect as He expects in our sphere here as Jesus was here showing us exactly what He expects of us.

Yes He became poor for our sake. He overcame all taking no power but what He will impart to us to walk as He did. Could He have sinned? Was there any liability? Well why do you think Satan tried so hard, he used every tool in his bag of tricks to bring Him down. He came and became poor, as one of us to overcome as one of us to prove the lie of Satan false, that the law of God could not be kept.

Yes, yes, He showed us we can keep the law and it is not heavy or galling but light and a pleasure with His indwelling Divine Nature.

That is what the whole plan He and the Father made that we could beat sin and rebellion. This should be preached but it is not. He gives us His might, Divine Nature, and we have no excuse not to do His complete will here in this sphere we are in.

Take up His Divine Nature and He is your substitute!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

We can be perfect as He expects in our sphere ....

Earth to Gibs....Please respond to the question: "can you stand before God's law and say I am blameless? or I am Holy as God is Holy?"

Yes, no?

[Robert]

Robert,

We can be perfect as He expects in our sphere here as Jesus was here showing us exactly what He expects of us.

Wow, what a line of dung....You call that an answer? Please, that's the answer of a politician!

Here's what Jesus expects:

Matt 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

How perfect? Just as God the Father is perfect!!!!

Let me give you Ellen White:

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” [RH 5-7-1901]

And now let me quote Paul:

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Now, are you measuring up? Please remember that the law of God gives no credit for partial obedience. Neither does God's law forgive you of transgression.

[Gibs]

Robert,

I'll leave you to straighten EGW on that one as for myself I see it the same, read,

"The word of God places the sin of gluttony in the same catalogue with drunkenness. So offensive was this sin in the sight of God that He gave directions to Moses that a child who would not be restrained on the point of appetite, but would gorge himself with anything his taste might crave, should be brought by his parents before the rulers of Israel, and should be stoned to death. The condition of the glutton was considered hopeless. He would be of no use to others, and was a curse to himself. No dependence could be placed upon him in anything. His influence would be ever contaminating others, and the world would be better without such a character; for his terrible defects would be perpetuated. None who have a sense of their accountability to God will allow the animal propensities to control reason. Those who do this are not Christians, whoever they may be, and however exalted their profession. The injunction of Christ is, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." He here shows us that we may be as perfect in our sphere as God is in His sphere." {CD 133.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

We can be perfect as He expects in our sphere ....

Earth to Gibs....Please respond to the question: "can you stand before God's law and say I am blameless? or I am Holy as God is Holy?"

Yes, no?

Not one who will be among the redeemed will dare stand before God and say, "I am blameless," or "I am holy as God is holy."

And yet God will have declared them holy and they will be holy but those who are truly holy in the Lord accuse themselves and God justifies them.

Paul was holy but he accused himself by saying that he was even the chief of sinners. 1 Tim.1:15

This is the spirit of the Gospel.

The 144,000 will be the holiest people in the Lord and yet they will have a deep sense of their unworthiness. See E.W.272.

sky

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Earth to Gibs....Please respond to the question: "can you stand before God's law and say I am blameless? or I am Holy as God is Holy?"

Yes' date=' no?

Not one who will be among the redeemed will dare stand before God and say, "I am blameless," or "I am holy as God is holy."

Why not?

Quote:

And yet God will have declared them holy and they will be holy but those who are truly holy in the Lord accuse themselves and God justifies them.[/quote']

How?

[Gibs]

If, If, If, little but a mighty word, "IF - - Jesus is my substitute" I kinda believe many will fall short of Jesus being their substitute and find too late that they did not see the way of it.

Don't take if for granted!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Not one who will be among the redeemed will dare stand before God and say, "I am blameless," or "I am holy as God is holy."

Why not?

Quote:

And yet God will have declared them holy and they will be holy but those who are truly holy in the Lord accuse themselves and God justifies them.[/quote']

How?

Why not?

This has already been answered not a long time ago.

"None of the apostles or prophets ever claimed to be without sin. Men who have lived nearest to God, men who would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit a wrong act, men whom God had honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their own nature. They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ. So it will be with all who behold Christ." C.O.L.160.

Notice these words again: men who would sacrifice life itself rather then knowingly commit one wrong act, men whom God had honored with divine light and power have confessed the sinfulness of their nature. They did not dare say, "I am holy," or "I am blameless."

"Thus it is with the truly righteous man. He is unconscious of his goodness and piety... All who come within the sphere of his influence perceive the beauty and fragrance of his Christian life, while he himself is unconscious of it, for it is in harmony with his habits and inclinations... His life is hid with Christ in God, yet he does not boast of this, nor seem conscious of it. God smiles upon the humble and lowly ones who follow closely in the footsteps of the Master. Angels are attracted to them, and love to linger about their path." The Sanctified Life,13.

This is why.

Was not the publican justified? Yes. Why? Because he accused himself and he went down to his house justified. But the self-righteous pharisee was justifying himself, comparing himself with others and boasting of his righteousness.

The 144,000 will be the holiest group of people ever to have lived upon the earth and yet just before they are translated they are described as having a deep sense of their unworthiness. See Early Writings, 272.

sky

[Gerr]

Why not? Because neither you nor I can ever achieve sinless perfection!

How? The only way I can meet the law's demand for perfection is to have the perfect righteousness of Jesus credited to my account - by faith.

[Robert]

Why not? Because neither you nor I can ever achieve sinless perfection!

How? The only way I can meet the law's demand for perfection is to have the perfect righteousness of Jesus credited to my account - by faith.

Bingo!

[Robert]

After we have done all that we are capable of doing, we are then to say, `We have done no more than our duty, and at best are unprofitable servants, unworthy of the smallest favor from God. Christ must be our righteousness, and the crown of our rejoicing'. 3T 526

There will be fruits, but...they aren't meritorious! They prove our faith and give Jesus permission to present us perfect in Himself.

[skyblue888]

The 144,000 will achieve sinless perfection in Christ through faith in His merits. They will reflect Christ fully. They will overcome as Jesus overcame and yet before God they will acknowledge themselves as "unprofitable servants." Luke 17:10.

It has already been established that the good works that the grace of God enables God's people to do DO NOT play a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit. Only the merits of Christ will avail in our behalf. Good works will be rewarded but in and of themselves these works have no merit. See F.W.24; 5 B.C.1124.

sky

[Gibs]

The proof of the faith that appropriates the merits of Christ will have works.

True we are not saved by our works but true Love for God and true faith we out of love do His will, willingly.

We All are to strive to be of the 144,000, EGW,speaks,

Bitter Disappointment in the Day of God.--The great mass of professing Christians will meet with bitter disappointment in the day of God. They have not upon their foreheads the seal of the living God. Lukewarm and halfhearted, they dishonor God far more than the avowed unbeliever. They grope in darkness, when they might be walking in the noonday light of the Word, under the guidance of One who never errs (Letter 121, 1903). {7BC 970.6}

See EGW on ch. 14:1-14. {7BC 970.7}

(ch. 14:1-4; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Strive to Be Among the 144,000.-- [Revelation 7:9-17 quoted.] Those whom the Lamb shall lead by the fountains of living waters, and from whose eyes He shall wipe away all tears, will be those now receiving the knowledge and understanding revealed in the Bible, the Word of God. . . . {7BC 970.8}

We are to copy no human being. There is no human being wise enough to be our criterion. We are to look to the man Christ Jesus, who is complete in the perfection of righteousness and holiness. He is the author and finisher of our faith. He is the pattern man. His experience is the measure of the experience that we are to gain. His character is our model. Let us, then, take our minds off the perplexities and the difficulties of this life, and fix them on Him, that by beholding we may be changed into His likeness. We may behold Christ to good purpose. We may safely look to Him; for He is all-wise. As we look to Him and think of Him, He will be formed within, the hope of glory. {7BC 970.9}

Let us strive with all the power that God has given us to be among the hundred and forty-four thousand (RH March 9, 1905). {7BC 970.10}

Christ in us and we all have the power if Christ does dwell within!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

The 144,000 will achieve sinless perfection in Christ through faith in His merits. They will reflect Christ fully.

[skyblue888]

The proof of the faith that appropriates the merits of Christ will have works. True we are not saved by our works but true Love for God and true faith we out of love do His will, willingly.

Gibs

_____________

Agreed.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

The 144,000 will achieve sinless perfection in Christ through faith in His merits. They will reflect Christ fully.

Okay, but that's the 144,000...those who go through the tribulation. This occurs after the gospel is fully restored and preached. Of this group it is said, "they loved not their lives even unto death". There's no self-love in their experience, yet they will not look at themselves as righteous.

Quote:

It has already been established that the good works that the grace of God enables God's people to do DO NOT play a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit.

Okay then....Otherwise it would be heresy.

Okay.

It is said that before they become the 144,000 they will, during the latter rain and loud cry, grow up into Christ (1 T 353) until the full corn of His character is in the ear. (Mark 4:26-28)

And then they will go through the crucible of the time of Jacob's trouble to remove their earthliness, not sin, but their earthliness.

Ever heard of that you guys?

sky

[Gibs]

Jesus is our substitute, Yes, But!, Only "IF" we have appropriated His Merits and continue in Him.

No one but you can do this for you,

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Jesus is our substitute, Yes, But!, Only "IF" we have appropriated His Merits and continue in Him.

No one but you can do this for you,

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Amen!

sky