Help Sabbath defense

[Saving Grace]

5th defense.

Did Jesus abolish the Sabbath observation? How could he when he ordered His disciples to keep it.

Did Jesus abolish the Law?

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If He knew He could fulfill the righteousness of the law in the hearts of His believers by the work of the Spirit, enabling them to live according to the righteous demand of the law, sinless perfect living, the same as He has demonstrated during His life on earth, why should He then abolish the law and nail it to His cross? It has no point!

If he had said these words:

John 5:14 - Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: SIN NO MORE, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and SIN NO MORE.

Sin no more! If Jesus has no reason to say this word, He will not say it for sure! But He said that because he knew, believer could sin no more! Therefore is has no point to abolish the law, to nail it to his cross.

Only those who doesn't believe Christ but pretending they are believers says that the law has been nailed to his cross.

[Umfundize]

In The Fourth Dilemma it is pointed out that the Sabbath is a CREATION DECREE, one of 4, and has nothing really to do with any Law. It was instituted BEFORE sin and was later taken INTO the Laws of Moses and also the 10 Commandments.

[Gerr]

First of all, assure and reassure your wife that you love her even more now that you have a relationship with Jesus.

Have the priest show you and your wife what baptism means [and be sure you understand it and be able to show it yourself] and where in Scripture infants are to be baptized, and where in Scripture Sunday-observance is ever commanded.

Quote:

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.Romans 14

Human opinions don't matter. What matters is what God says! He is the one that makes the laws, not us. Does He esteem all days alike? Of the 10, there is ONLY one commandment that starts with - "Remember.." And as the "Lord of the Sabbath," and of the 7 days, there is only ONE that He calls "My holy day." (Isa 58). And in the earth made new, the same Sabbath will be observed (Isa 66), not a day of everyone's choosing!

[Saving Grace]

Isaiah 66:22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. (NIV)

This is an arguable verse.

If Sabbath day should be kept, so does New Moon festival.

We can't take one and deny the other.

This is God saying that a weekly and monthly period of time, people come to bow before Him.

I rather keep this for my self than telling others as a defense to our Sabbath faith.

[Saving Grace]

In The Fourth Dilemma it is pointed out that the Sabbath is a CREATION DECREE, one of 4, and has nothing really to do with any Law. It was instituted BEFORE sin and was later taken INTO the Laws of Moses and also the 10 Commandments.

.

I agree with this. Good argument to defense our Sabbath faith.

[Asiyreh]

Quote:

I don't want to get too off topic but I would be very interested in hearing how you came to the faith. I know we have Adventist missionaries in Ireland and that there are currently very few converts.

Sorry we had some guys from Portugal over at the church, so I was busy on Sabbath with that and then there was the Christening. Sorry for the slow response. Ahhh I actually came to the idea myself. I'd been encouraged to search the truth of Evolution from some Christian friends I'd met on a Halo gaming server. I stumbled onto Prof. Vieth’s creation seminars which took me to Total onslaught. (or I might have been searching the 911 conspiracy can't remember exactly sorry).

Anyways one of the two led me to Total Onslaught, which nearly caused me to have a nervous breakdown by the way.

So I've had Adventist leanings for about 3 years now. I contacted my Pastor here in Derry guy called Claudiu. Since then I’ve becoming more involved with the church and evangelising, which brings me to my next point. Have we got any good documents on the historicity of the early church keeping the Sabbath. Also I remember something about a command to desecrate the Sabbath. Can someone tell me more about that or give me some good Docs on it.

Cheers guys.

[Woody]

The study of St. Patrick and his keeping of the Sabbath is a good read.

[Johnnboy]

Johnnboy:

Check out The Fourth Dilemma. All those verses are properly exegeted and you will love every page!Tell me what you think. Thanks

I am sorry but I find that the writer of the The Fourth Dilemma does not hold Biblical views of some of the major issues of God's plan of salvation or believe in the writings of Ellen White as the Spirit of Prophecy.

I believe the whole Bible (KJV) as it reads, and in the writings of Ellen White as the messenger of God. I also believe that we must make all our determinations of truth from the weight of the evidence from these inspired sources only.

If there is not harmony between these inspired sources and what pastors or theologians are teaching, we must make our choice to believe the inspired Word of God.

[Umfundize]

According to Review & Herald, it is one of the best books on the Sabbath they ever printed. Look at the interview HOPE Channel had at the GC. Google: Barkhuizen on YouTube.

So, I take it that you believe The Clear Word Bible is correct by MIXING the Bible WITH the opines of Ellen White? Ellen White was thusly pulled INTO the SDA Biblical CANON!

Did you watch Frances and Friends? Check the archives of June 5,6 and 7 and note the actual documents they use to show SDA as Cult of the Year, and the SDA's calling in to the program (Jimmy Swaggart Ministries)

I will be interested in finding out how Dr Pieter have "major issues with God's plan of salvation". Did you read the chapter in Adventist Alternative dealing with Salvation and the Judgment of God? So you believe in the Bible PLUS Ellen White? I don't. Where in the BIBLE do you read EGW IS the SOP? In Rev 19:10?

So, Johnny, be good! Shalom!

[Gail]

So, I take it that you believe The Clear Word Bible is correct by MIXING the Bible WITH the opines of Ellen White? Ellen White was thusly pulled INTO the SDA Biblical CANON!

Oh, gimme a break! Do you know of ANY SDA who holds the Clear Word devotional project to be canon?

I was talking yesterday with someone in the store about the scholarship of the NASB, NIV and the NRSV.

[Asiyreh]

Yeh I'd second that sentiment tbh. I say this will create a huge stumbling block for the rest of the Christian community.

The SDA might believe Ellen's word is inspired, but the rest of the Christian community does not. Frankly I think Ellen would object to the project herself.

Isn't there some command against adding or subtracting from the word of God. Anyway the main objective of the remnant church should be getting as many peps aboard the Ark before she sails. I didn't know this "bible" existed and quite frankly as a Christian I'm a little offended...

Now I love my church, imagine how this would seem to an outsider looking in. The SDA are going to be attacked and shunned by other denominations because of this.

[Woody]

Good comment about peps

[Samie]

Truth remains truth even if not believed on. Lie remains lie despite the majority that believes in it.

Christ, our Shepherd, said He is the Truth (John 14:6). He is the same yesterday and today and forever (Heb 13:8). He was a sabbath-keeper, is a sabbath-keeper and forever will be a sabbath-keeper. It was His custom to be in church on Saturdays (Luke 4:16). As His sheep, I follow my Shepherd to church on Saturdays and would refuse to follow another shepherd to church on Sundays. Our Shepherd declares:

Quote:

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Jesus is the best defense, not just for the Sabbath, but for the lifestyle God wants His children to have.

Quote:

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps

Why am I a Sabbath-keeper? Because my Shepherd is a Sabbath-keeper.

[Umfundize]

Gail:

You are correct. SDA's do not consciously view Ellen's writings as CANON, but the PERCEPTION is that her writings are at par with the Bible. The CLEAR WORD BIBLE is printed, not to look like a devotional or study-guide, but, SPECIFICALLY as a BIBLE.

If you look at Frances and Friends, you will notice how they show the endorsements of the GC and UNION presidents. So the "outside" people PERCEIVES the Clear Word TO BE THE SDA BIBLE. Therefore, one more reason they use to brand SDA Cult of the Year.

For a long time SDA was no longer regarded a cult, UNTIL Clear Word came by. See Rev 22:18,19. I say we are treading on dangerous ground!

Frances and Friends is part of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries. I just happened to see the discussions while surfing some religious channels.. See archives of June 5,6 and 7. That gives us a good idea of how SDA's are PERCEIVED.

[OzarkWoman]

I just had to explain to someone about this book because they were under the impression that SDA had their own Bible and that scared them a lot.

[Naomi]

The number of "outside" people who are even aware of the Clear Word are limited. Unfundize you insist on calling it "Bible" which has not been a part of the title for many long years. That was an error in judgement which was reversed. Have you never made an error in judgement and attempted to correct it?What is your purpose in continuing to promote this perception?

As for it's being written combining Sis. White's quotes and Bibical text it is not the only book in print which includes the author's comments with the Bible, or using the Bible and having a commentary included.

As for being a CULT ... in no way does the SDA church qualify as a cult and surely you know that! Further, I am a proud SDA and really am not concerned with you or anyone elses opinion of our denomination or the policies of our GC, only that of our Lord . Thank you very much!

[Umfundize]

I fully understand the SDA position regarding The Clear Word. However, OTHER CHRISTIANS are using the original edition that included the word BIBLE. It really LOOKS like a Bible, agree?

Frances and Friends pointed out the HALLMARKS of a cult: They believe they are the ONLY TRUE CHURCH, SDA's DO this! They have their own PROPHET/PROPHETESS, SDA's DO! They have their OWN BIBLE! SDA'S DO! They have their own understanding about SALVATION. (Investigative Judgment...no immediate assurance of salvation). SDA'S DO! They condemn all other Christians as being children of the Harlot of Rev 17. SDA'S DO! That is HOW SDA'S are being PERCEIVED by others. Period!