a Norwegian perspective

[Sonja]

I didn't know what current topic to place my thoughts, so I am making a new topic. (I hope that's ok.)

A little background: I am female (you could probably know that by my name), Norwegian, and somewhere between 45-55 years old (!). I am an Adventist.

My thoughts on the ordination of women in the Adventist church are not so much a pro or con, as they are, simply, an observation. Although English is my 2nd language, please pardon me if I make grammar errors - it is nearly 0600 in the morning here, and I am not a "morning" person.

I am not so much concerned about whether a woman is ordained as a pastor, as I am concerned about the members of a church who do not wish for a woman pastor. Many feel strongly against it. Proponents of women ordination say to those who do not like it or want it, "you can join another church in a different area." This is not possible for many people. Some countries do not have multiple Adventist churches in their cities. So, those members who do not feel comfortable with a woman pastor will have to stay home. This is not right. It is forcing people to make a choice to follow their personal convictions or to submit to a spiritual situation they do not agree with. That is tantamount to spiritual manipulation, and I have a very great dislike for that.

I think I am observing the beginning of a schism in the Adventist church. It is not happy to watch.

[teresaq]

Doesn't your church accept or reject anyone proposed as a pastor? Why would that change?

[Sonja]

A church is comprised of members. A church board decides on the acceptance of a pastor. Not every members' views are represented on a church board. I assume you are in the United States. Perhaps the process is different.

[olger]

Hi Sonja. Welcome.

Were you at the marriage seminar in 2006, at Hurdal Ski Lodge? EBS helped to organize the event, along with the church in Skotselv.

Blessings,

Gerry

[Woody]

A church is comprised of members. A church board decides on the acceptance of a pastor. Not every members' views are represented on a church board. I assume you are in the United States. Perhaps the process is different.

Yes, it can be different depending upon the church. Some churches vote on it at a business meeting of the church where ALL members can vote.

But you do bring up an excellent point regarding this. Thanks for the discussion.

[Sonja]

Gerry, I was not able to attend the seminar, but I remember hearing about it. People were very impressed with it. Were you there??

[olger]

I was one of the presenters there. Met a lot of good people.

Do you know Jason & Maggie?

Dag Norlin

David Mikkelson

Vivian Telfur

Lindiss Rassmussen

and many others...

We went to Bergen in 2009, after a week of prayer at Mattesonkolen. Then up to geiranger. Beautiful!

Many blessings,

Gerry Wagoner

[Sonja]

:):) Yes, I know some. They know me by my middle name.

I think Geiranger is one of most beautiful places in Norway, if not in the entire world.

[teresaq]

I am not so much concerned about whether a woman is ordained as a pastor, as I am concerned about the members of a church who do not wish for a woman pastor. Many feel strongly against it. Proponents of women ordination say to those who do not like it or want it, "you can join another church in a different area." This is not possible for many people. Some countries do not have multiple Adventist churches in their cities. So, those members who do not feel comfortable with a woman pastor will have to stay home. This is not right. It is forcing people to make a choice to follow their personal convictions or to submit to a spiritual situation they do not agree with.

I believe that is how many feel here. They have been forced for years and years to go against their consciences and have not had the choice of another church to go to where there was a female pastor.

Or the church is torn over the male pastor they do have...but where else can they go? Sometimes it is not possible to go wherever one wants.

I take it there are no ordained female pastors in Norway?

[olger]

There was a woman from Bergen at the 2006 meetings, I thought that might have been you.

I agree, regarding Geiranger. Another lovely place is the town of Loen, south of Stryn. Like being in a postcard. I'll put a picture on here later..

I also agree with your opening post, regarding the Columbia Union. Not good.

I am amazed that they (Columbia Union leaders) are determined to press ahead with this agenda despite the formal expression of will from delegates of the entire world church. This whole thing is like a boy on a bicycle playing chicken with a train. Not a good precedent to be setting near the time of the end.

Rejoice always and go easy on gjetost

G

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Sonja

I am not so much concerned about whether a woman is ordained as a pastor, as I am concerned about the members of a church who do not wish for a woman pastor. Many feel strongly against it. Proponents of women ordination say to those who do not like it or want it, "you can join another church in a different area." This is not possible for many people. Some countries do not have multiple Adventist churches in their cities. So, those members who do not feel comfortable with a woman pastor will have to stay home. This is not right. It is forcing people to make a choice to follow their personal convictions or to submit to a spiritual situation they do not agree with.

I believe that is how many feel here. They have been forced for years and years to go against their consciences and have not had the choice of another church to go to where there was a female pastor.

Or the church is torn over the male pastor they do have...but where else can they go? Sometimes it is not possible to go wherever one wants.

I take it there are no ordained female pastors in Norway?

Very True. Very True

[olger]

[Woody]

It would be a beautiful picture if those people were not in it.

[Sonja]

Originally Posted By: Sonja

I am not so much concerned about whether a woman is ordained as a pastor, as I am concerned about the members of a church who do not wish for a woman pastor. Many feel strongly against it. Proponents of women ordination say to those who do not like it or want it, "you can join another church in a different area." This is not possible for many people. Some countries do not have multiple Adventist churches in their cities. So, those members who do not feel comfortable with a woman pastor will have to stay home. This is not right. It is forcing people to make a choice to follow their personal convictions or to submit to a spiritual situation they do not agree with.

I believe that is how many feel here. They have been forced for years and years to go against their consciences and have not had the choice of another church to go to where there was a female pastor.

Or the church is torn over the male pastor they do have...but where else can they go? Sometimes it is not possible to go wherever one wants.

I do not know of anyone who has truly wanted or needed a female pastor.

[Gordon1]

Welcome Sonja. I knew a family from Bergen.

[Sonja]

Thank you, Gordon. I haven't lived long in Bergen, but I do like it here.

[olger]

We had some great soup on top of the mountain in Bergen (floien restaurant). Nice view too.

Here is a partial shot of the 2006 Hurdal conference, perhaps you will recognize a few people.

Many blessings,

G

[phkrause]

Awesome picture olger and the people make the picture.

[Naomi]

Awesome picture olger and the people make the picture.

[teresaq]

I take it there are no ordained female pastors in Norway?

[teresaq]

"anyone who can empty themselves of self and present just God..."

[teresaq]

Nice picture. Body language is an interesting study.

[Sonja]

Teresa, I intentionally did not answer your question about the presence of ordained women pastors in Norway, simply because that was not a relevant question to my comments. Forcing someone to choose between two opposing, yet both unacceptable, choices is psychologically unhealthy. The American philosophy of "put up or shut up" mentality is woefully lacking in understanding. It is my opinion that God is not happy with coercion. He, Himself, does not do that to His created children.

[Tom Wetmore]

I really do not think anyone here in America is taking a "put up or shut up" approach to this matter. As I said in another thread here, those in favor of women pastors and elders are not seeking impose that on everyone, but rather to allow it where it is acceptable and appropriate. On the other hand, it seems that those opposed to women pastors and elders do wish to impose a "male only" policy and practice on everyone. The reality is that such a result, by repeatedly seeking to maintain the status quo for all, has prevailed for decades now.

[doug yowell]

I really do not think anyone here in America is taking a "put up or shut up" approach to this matter. As I said in another thread here, those in favor of women pastors and elders are not seeking impose that on everyone, but rather to allow it where it is acceptable and appropriate.